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Go Gomez

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I really like Nat, but it just feels wrong to stifle his career for another season by keeping him on the bench. Klopp clearly doesn't rate him, there's been plenty of opportunities to play him this season, but Klopp has gone with Gomez and Konaté ahead of him.
It's time for Nat to go.
 
The times Gomez has played this season he has looked a little mentally slow awareness-wise. Its hard to say with Joe because this season he hasn't really had a fair crack of the whip, but Klopp is the one who sees all the players in training.

Also 30m? How many Maguires is that? Is Joe's contract running out or something?
 
mwake said:
The times Gomez has played this season he has looked a little mentally slow awareness-wise. Its hard to say with Joe because this season he hasn't really had a fair crack of the whip, but Klopp is the one who sees all the players in training.

Also 30m? How many Maguires is that? Is Joe's contract running out or something?
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He's barely played in 12 months. I can't see someone paying much more than that
 
Saleable asset. One of either him or Nat has to go. Not that fussed which one. They both have strong point. Gomez obviously has the higher ceiling but uncertain if we'll ever see it.
 
darkstarexodus said:
Saleable asset. One of either him or Nat has to go. Not that fussed which one. They both have strong point. Gomez obviously has the higher ceiling but uncertain if we'll ever see it.
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Nats going regardless. Klopp clearly doesn't rate him.
 
Modo said:
It's sad, but necessary. I think he's the driving force in this and it's not just about losing his place and basically becoming 4th choice, it's also about not even being in contention for England. It's a world cup year and he wants to stake a claim.
BUT, is Villa actually the best option?
Konsa and Mings are a solid pair. Isn't Newcastle a better option?
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He's better than both of them. He'd have no problem being a regular (injuries permitting).
 
Modo said:
I really like Nat, but it just feels wrong to stifle his career for another season by keeping him on the bench. Klopp clearly doesn't rate him, there's been plenty of opportunities to play him this season, but Klopp has gone with Gomez and Konaté ahead of him.
It's time for Nat to go.
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We are stifling his career? Come on Modo that's bollocks. Every player has a choice and different priorities. Not everyone MUST be playing week in week out.
For some getting paid a very very handsome wage to stuff their bank account, getting to play football for a living, to have fun and train with world class players, just to be at LFC ... and then there's Klopp ... is a dream come true. Players are (usually) more than capable of making their own decisions regarding their career.

As far as Philips is concerned when he came he knew he wouldn't be in the Top 3 CBs so chances to start would be very very limited. I've no doubt at all he's improved, you don't need to be playing week in week out to do that when you have the facilities and coaches we do. As for actually starting ... see above. He doesn't seem at all unhappy and it's good for us to have him in reserve.
 
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Frogfish said:
We are stifling his career? Come on Modo that's bollocks. Every player has a choice and different priorities. Not everyone MUST be playing week in week out.
For some getting paid a very very handsome wage to stuff their bank account, getting to play football for a living, to have fun and train with world class players, just to be at LFC ... and then there's Klopp ... is a dream come true. Players are (usually) more than capable of making their own decisions regarding their career.

As far as Philips is concerned when he came he knew he wouldn't be in the Top 3 CBs so chances to start would be very very limited. I've no doubt at all he's improved, you don't need to be playing week in week out to do that when you have the facilities and coaches we do. As for actually starting ... see above. He doesn't seem at all unhappy and it's good for us to have him in reserve.
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Oh he definitely wants to go somewhere to get games. That’s been evident from what both he and Klopp has said. He agreed to stay last summer because Klopp asked him to.
He’s trained his entire life to play as a professional footballer. It’s not as simple as saying he should feel satisfied because he gets to train with world class players, earns good money and only has to sit on the bench. Money will no longer be a motivating factor for him anyway, as he’s already makes a great living and can also earn great money elsewhere. Playing games in front of 10s of thousands every week has to be something he strives for.
If I were him, playing as well as he did during a period when the club was suffering as it was, but to then see a younger player signed up to take his position, and then to have an always injured player also start ahead of him in games, I would want out. Especially after the club begged me to stay in the summer. Don’t blame him for pushing for a move.
 
juniormember said:
Oh he definitely wants to go somewhere to get games. That’s been evident from what both he and Klopp has said. He agreed to stay last summer because Klopp asked him to.
He’s trained his entire life to play as a professional footballer. It’s not as simple as saying he should feel satisfied because he gets to train with world class players, earns good money and only has to sit on the bench. Money will no longer be a motivating factor for him anyway, as he’s already makes a great living and can also earn great money elsewhere. Playing games in front of 10s of thousands every week has to be something he strives for.
If I were him, playing as well as he did during a period when the club was suffering as it was, but to then see a younger player signed up to take his position, and then to have an always injured player also start ahead of him in games, I would want out. Especially after the club begged me to stay in the summer. Don’t blame him for pushing for a move.
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Yeah I wasn't intimating that Philips should feel satisfied with his lot, what I said was that not everyone has the same ambitions and so saying that we are stifling their careers is a real stretch when we don't know how the player feels. I think this is very clear when we look around at other top clubs and see players that we believe would be regulars elsewhere likely staying put for the reasons I mentioned above.

And of course he now surely has a much higher profile simply by virtue of being at LFC.

Your last paragraph may show the influences that have affected his decision to leave. I would say that he has previously stated he is very happy at LFC. Maybe it's more a matter of pride, of face, that he is now lower down the pecking order than maybe his performances deserve. Losing face can lead to uncomfortable decisions/choices.
 
Ok… I’m going to do my usual thing and point out that I think it’s a bit of an issue selling homegrown players, because as things currently stand we’re not overstocked in that area.

I don’t think we need 5 CB’s… IF.. and I mean IF, the 4 we have are not known for getting injured regularly - And we know at least 2 are.

I’d be tempted to sell Gomez if someone was offering £30m - but I’d be shocked if we’d get that from anyone based on his injury record.

If it were based on his ability - then it’s a bargain. I’ve said before - I’d be inclined to keep him and see if he can get a few games under his belts and develop a bit of form then make a call in the summer.

Nate is an odd one - he hasn’t played enough games to warrant a large fee, but £15m is still cheap and I’m surprised more teams haven’t had a nibble given some of the fees been chucked around for other CB’s.

The point for me here is - both players “should” be undervalued relative to their abilities - but we’re looking to sell when this is normally the type of player we’re trying to buy.

The other point I’d make is - Matip is probably approaching the point at which we could get a reasonable fee, relative to age - and as much as I like him, it’s either this summer or he’s finishing his career here or leaving on a free, with maybe 1-2 years left in him.

Virgil - we’re not selling, Konate we need to keep and develop, so that leaves the other 3 - if we sell more than 1, then we need to buy and a good young CB costs £40m.
 
Frogfish said:
We are stifling his career? Come on Modo that's bollocks. Every player has a choice and different priorities. Not everyone MUST be playing week in week out.
For some getting paid a very very handsome wage to stuff their bank account, getting to play football for a living, to have fun and train with world class players, just to be at LFC ... and then there's Klopp ... is a dream come true. Players are (usually) more than capable of making their own decisions regarding their career.

As far as Philips is concerned when he came he knew he wouldn't be in the Top 3 CBs so chances to start would be very very limited. I've no doubt at all he's improved, you don't need to be playing week in week out to do that when you have the facilities and coaches we do. As for actually starting ... see above. He doesn't seem at all unhappy and it's good for us to have him in reserve.
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What @juniormember said, pretty much.
 
Surely we're not thinking of offloading both Nat and Gomez?

That seems very risky. If it's an either/or case, I'd rather sell Gomez as he's likely to command a higher fee and is permacrocked. Nat is able back-up and Konate hopefully has the attributes to potentially be everything Gomez is and more.

But selling both? Did we learn nothing from last season?
 
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singlerider said:
Surely we're not thinking of offloading both Nat and Gomez?

That seems very risky. If it's an either/or case, I'd rather sell Gomez as he's likely to command a higher fee and is permacrocked. Nat is able back-up and Konate hopefully has the attributes to potentially be everything Gomez is and more.

But selling both? Did we learn nothing from last season?
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We probably would
 
StevieM said:
The other point I’d make is - Matip is probably approaching the point at which we could get a reasonable fee, relative to age - and as much as I like him, it’s either this summer or he’s finishing his career here or leaving on a free, with maybe 1-2 years left in him.

Virgil - we’re not selling, Konate we need to keep and develop, so that leaves the other 3 - if we sell more than 1, then we need to buy and a good young CB costs £40m.
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Matip? He has been arguably our best CB this season.
 
KopRed said:
Matip? He has been arguably our best CB this season.
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He arguably has, I agree.

He’s also 30, has a history of injuries and his value, as such, is at it’s highest.

If we’re serious about rebuilding the squad and reducing the average age - then surely he has to ge considered a sellable asset.
 
StevieM said:
He arguably has, I agree.

He’s also 30, has a history of injuries and his value, as such, is at it’s highest.

If we’re serious about rebuilding the squad and reducing the average age - then surely he has to ge considered a sellable asset.
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To who though?

Who is going to offer us the sort of fee that would make it worth our while selling for, as you say, an injury prone 30 year old?
 
At this stage its rumours right? The only offer we've had so far this window is £7m for Nat from West Ham. Undoubtedly an Italian team has offered a loan deal where we pay 50% of the wages and optional buy offer of £3m
 
keniget said:
To who though?

Who is going to offer us the sort of fee that would make it worth our while selling for, as you say, an injury prone 30 year old?
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Don’t know.

Depends what you’d be happy with - £20m+?

His value would be at it’s highest.

I guess where my head is going with this - is people constantly complaining about the team ageing and us not bringing in younger replacements, while at the same time wanting to sell younger players.

If we accept that our owners are not going to fund a transfer splurge, and we have to fund a rebuild through sales - then we’re not going to be able to do that whilst retaining all our older players, no matter how good they are.
 
On reflection I don't think we should sell Gomez...

If one of VVD, Matip, Konate gets injured (and let's not pretend that we won't be surprised if that happens...) then we're back to squeaky bum time. I like Nat but I still think he's not really the level of player that will ever break through to be a first teamer

It's on Joe... If he wants to stay then stay... but we shouldn't be considering selling a decent defender like Joe, just to put 30m in the bank, I actually think he's worth more.
 
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