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fuck ryan's chalkboard, I'm having first crack

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spider-Neil

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from fulham's point of view, easy all too fucking easy. I'm sure the media will praise fulham's solidity but we handed that point to fulham on a plate.

I remember listening to a liverpool football match where ronnie moran with the pundit and you could here the frustration in his voice, 'where are you going, pass it', 'give it easy'. everything was slow and pounderous and for a man breed on pass and move it must have been difficult to watch.
and that was liverpool today, too slow, too ponderous and a fucking piece of PISS to defend against.

when they have parked the bus you need to do the following;

1) move together in units
play one touch triangles in and around them to drag them out of position. pull the center backs out to the flanks.

2) stretch them by switching play
if it is congested on one side of the pitch switch it to the other side of the pitch, the opposition will get tired chasing the ball and eventually will make mistakes

3) get the center backs to take the ball as far up the pitch as possible
if they pass the ball to others rather than moving forwards with the ball themselves the opposition dont have to break up their defensive positions, the second a center back moves forwards they (opposition) HAVE to break formation to engage them (center backs)

4) get players to take the ball down the line and drag the ball back into the penalty box
seriously how much of the above did we do? did fulham look stretched at any point in the game?

too much of the play went through the middle so fulham didn't have to break formation.
too many touches on the ball so fulham had the time to get back and organise themselves.
too many crosses from deep which was frankly idiotic when their center back is 6 foot fucking five.

all too fucking easy.

moving onto to rafa subs, what was the is the point of subbing like for like when fulham have clearly come for a point? carra and the greek aren't going to give you anything going forwards and in regards to fulham's attacking intent our center backs may as well have tea on the edge of our penalty area so fucking take one of them off, move agger into the center who WILL give you something going forwards and bring on another attacker, fuck getting caught on the break, a point is no good to us now it really should be all or nothing. kuyt for aqua, yossi for babel, ngog for patches is not adding attacking impetus. you bring on more attacking players and they will be further up the pitch where they can hurt teams with sheer numbers or a moment of magic.

we had loads of attempts but how many of those where speculative shots from distance? we needed to gamble more and we need to show more ambition.
rafa may as well concentrate on europa now because 4th has well and truly gone and if we aren't finishing 4th I don't really give a fuck where we finish in the league.

lastly I think insua is a rubbish fullback but he would have allowed agger to move into the middle so the greek wouldn't have been needed leaving agger to defend higher up the pitch and start attacks, and insua would have supported the attackers better than agger did. all in all a very frustarting game.
 
I'll also add one of the things that frustrates me most is when I a see a player in the process of recieving a pass and that players sees another player in space so instead of just first time passing to that player (when the ball eventually reaches them) they control the ball (slowing everything down) and THEN pass to the player they could have just feed with one touch. utterly fucking annyoing.
 
Especially when we've proved that we can do the one-touch stuff - witness the Sunderland and Benfica games at Anfield.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=39782.msg1086564#msg1086564 date=1271004586]
Especially when we've proved that we can do the one-touch stuff - witness the Sunderland and Benfica games at Anfield.
[/quote]

EXACTLY! its not like we can't do it. look at the chance (v pompy) when babel hit the bar, the ball was moved from the half way line to the penalty box, inside the box and out to babel without pompy getting a touch and all because the ball was moved quickly so pompy couldn't get organised.
 
It's so frustrating because it's so simple, but it was a display we've seen so often in recent years. We have got the players for one touch, quick play, but not enough. More often than not we're so easy to play against. I'm at a loss to say whether it's tactics, the personnel or confidence, because we do it so inconsistently. I didn't see the game but it sounds as though we didn't do any of the things you mentioned Spidey, not even from the outset, so that's got to be down to managers instructions. Either that or they're deliberately disobeying him. Or the players he's assembled are incapable of it. Either way it's a fucking shambles.

Spidey, you'd give him another year,yeah? Next year will still be littered with displays like that, just like it has been throughout Rafa's time with us. He hasn't figured out how to combat defensive, organised teams regularly enough yet.

You would never see any other top side as easy to defend against as us.
 
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=39782.msg1086571#msg1086571 date=1271005236]
It's so frustrating because it's so simple, but it was a display we've seen so often in recent years. We have got the players for one touch, quick play, but not enough. More often than not we're so easy to play against. I'm at a loss to say whether it's tactics, the personnel or confidence, because we do it so inconsistently. I didn't see the game but it sounds as though we didn't do any of the things you mentioned Spidey, not even from the outset, so that's got to be down to managers instructions. Either that or they're deliberately disobeying him. Or the players he's assembled are incapable of it. Either way it's a fucking shambles.

Spidey, you'd give him another year,yeah? Next year will still be littered with displays like that, just like it has been throughout Rafa's time with us. He hasn't figured out how to combat defensive, organised teams regularly enough yet.

You would never see any other top side as easy to defend against as us.
[/quote]

the reason why I'd give him another year is because stuff off the pitch is influencing stuff on the pitch so I'm taking everything into account not just results.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39782.msg1086572#msg1086572 date=1271005640]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=39782.msg1086571#msg1086571 date=1271005236]
It's so frustrating because it's so simple, but it was a display we've seen so often in recent years. We have got the players for one touch, quick play, but not enough. More often than not we're so easy to play against. I'm at a loss to say whether it's tactics, the personnel or confidence, because we do it so inconsistently. I didn't see the game but it sounds as though we didn't do any of the things you mentioned Spidey, not even from the outset, so that's got to be down to managers instructions. Either that or they're deliberately disobeying him. Or the players he's assembled are incapable of it. Either way it's a fucking shambles.

Spidey, you'd give him another year,yeah? Next year will still be littered with displays like that, just like it has been throughout Rafa's time with us. He hasn't figured out how to combat defensive, organised teams regularly enough yet.

You would never see any other top side as easy to defend against as us.
[/quote]

the reason why I'd give him another year is because stuff off the pitch is influencing stuff on the pitch so I'm taking everything into account not just results.
[/quote]

I agree to an extent. Benitez is the main reason it's going wrong on the pitc, though. Not Tom and Jerry.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39782.msg1086572#msg1086572 date=1271005640]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=39782.msg1086571#msg1086571 date=1271005236]
It's so frustrating because it's so simple, but it was a display we've seen so often in recent years. We have got the players for one touch, quick play, but not enough. More often than not we're so easy to play against. I'm at a loss to say whether it's tactics, the personnel or confidence, because we do it so inconsistently. I didn't see the game but it sounds as though we didn't do any of the things you mentioned Spidey, not even from the outset, so that's got to be down to managers instructions. Either that or they're deliberately disobeying him. Or the players he's assembled are incapable of it. Either way it's a fucking shambles.

Spidey, you'd give him another year,yeah? Next year will still be littered with displays like that, just like it has been throughout Rafa's time with us. He hasn't figured out how to combat defensive, organised teams regularly enough yet.

You would never see any other top side as easy to defend against as us.
[/quote]

the reason why I'd give him another year is because stuff off the pitch is influencing stuff on the pitch so I'm taking everything into account not just results.
[/quote]

It's been a severely unlucky season with beach balls, injuries, off the pitch situations etc so it's understandable to give Rafa another season. BUT he guaranteed 4th place and if 4th isn't reached then a new manager is required. If you're going to live by the sword, you die by the sword.
 
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=39782.msg1086574#msg1086574 date=1271005808]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39782.msg1086572#msg1086572 date=1271005640]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=39782.msg1086571#msg1086571 date=1271005236]
It's so frustrating because it's so simple, but it was a display we've seen so often in recent years. We have got the players for one touch, quick play, but not enough. More often than not we're so easy to play against. I'm at a loss to say whether it's tactics, the personnel or confidence, because we do it so inconsistently. I didn't see the game but it sounds as though we didn't do any of the things you mentioned Spidey, not even from the outset, so that's got to be down to managers instructions. Either that or they're deliberately disobeying him. Or the players he's assembled are incapable of it. Either way it's a fucking shambles.

Spidey, you'd give him another year,yeah? Next year will still be littered with displays like that, just like it has been throughout Rafa's time with us. He hasn't figured out how to combat defensive, organised teams regularly enough yet.

You would never see any other top side as easy to defend against as us.
[/quote]

the reason why I'd give him another year is because stuff off the pitch is influencing stuff on the pitch so I'm taking everything into account not just results.
[/quote]

I agree to an extent. Benitez is the main reason it's going wrong on the pitc, though. Not Tom and Jerry.
[/quote]

it kind of goes hand in hand though. for example; they give him the money from the keane sale, he buys a striker, striker gets (conservative estitmate) 5 away goals, we turn 5 away losses into wins.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=39782.msg1086559#msg1086559 date=1271004277]
Can I ask that one day you use the word centre rather than center. Thanks!
[/quote]

Why would you want him to sound daft?? 😉
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=39782.msg1086581#msg1086581 date=1271006167]
Assuming, of course, that Rafa actually did go out and buy a striker.
[/quote]

if that money was forthcoming he would have bought a striker, no question.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39782.msg1086586#msg1086586 date=1271006432]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=39782.msg1086581#msg1086581 date=1271006167]
Assuming, of course, that Rafa actually did go out and buy a striker.
[/quote]

if that money was forthcoming he would have bought a striker, no question.
[/quote]

If you say so, Nostradamus.
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39782.msg1086589#msg1086589 date=1271006717]
We had strikers and he sold them.
[/quote]

This.
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39782.msg1086589#msg1086589 date=1271006717]
We had strikers and he sold them.
[/quote]

but why did we have to sell them? that's right, to balance the books.
 
Bellamy wasn't sold because of the golf club incident. He was sold to raise funds for the Torres purchase. In hindsight (and in my opinion at the time) there were other players that could or should have been sold instead.
 
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=39782.msg1086667#msg1086667 date=1271016124]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39782.msg1086589#msg1086589 date=1271006717]
We had strikers and he sold them.
[/quote]

This.
[/quote]

x2 - how many clubs in our position (going for the league and champs leauge) have an untried 19/20 yr old rookie as their immediate back-up striker?
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39782.msg1086671#msg1086671 date=1271016448]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39782.msg1086589#msg1086589 date=1271006717]
We had strikers and he sold them.
[/quote]

but why did we have to sell them? that's right, to balance the books.
[/quote]

So effectively what you're trying to explain to us is this:

In the six years that Rafa has been here, he's been unable to build up a squad with more than three strikers of whom one is an untested 20 year old and the other a converted right winger because he's had to balance the books.

Is that right?
 
And of course there is all the money he spent on youth, where approx 95% never see first team action consistently
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39782.msg1086684#msg1086684 date=1271017400]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39782.msg1086671#msg1086671 date=1271016448]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39782.msg1086589#msg1086589 date=1271006717]
We had strikers and he sold them.
[/quote]

but why did we have to sell them? that's right, to balance the books.
[/quote]

So effectively what you're trying to explain to us is this:

In the six years that Rafa has been here, he's been unable to build up a squad with more than three strikers of whom one is an untested 20 year old and the other a converted right winger because he's had to balance the books.

Is that right?


[/quote]

to be honest rafa is to blame for the striker situation because he could have bought a striker tha fit his system of torres/gerrard and then he wouldn't need to sell that striker 6 months later. the owners then couldn't have withheld the money from the sale. but I do feel sympathy for rafa because he should have been given that keane money or should have been told if he sells keane he wont be given the money from the sale.
 
Thank you.

The bottom line is that we've had enough time to build a strong enough squad to cope with one or two setbacks, which we've obviously had recently in terms of finances. Of course, if you sell decent / good squaddies and replace them with fucking dross you simply can't play, it doesn't help matters.
 
Keane's a bad example. He didn't play him when he had him and treated him like shit when he started to have a run of form. I wasn't a fan of the Keane signing, and didn't see the point in getting him in, but don't spunk £20 million on him when money's tight, haul him off at every opportunity, drop him when he started to show a run of form, and then sell him without a replacement in mind leaving one senior striker at the club.

Much has been made of the fact that he's not the best man manager, but it has cost us. Maybe Crouch would still be here if he used him better. Although, that's not as poignant as the Keane debacle.

It sickens me when I see Benitez moaning about money. The last two summer transfer windows he's spent a shit load and spunked it on shite or crocks. Don't hit me with net spend this summer either, because he had at least £20 million to sign a gifted centre midfielder to replace Alonso and he went and bought a crock who couldn't play until a 3rd of the season had passed and then decided to give him some of the Keane treatment.


Benitez IS the main reason for this shocker of a season.
 
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=39782.msg1086702#msg1086702 date=1271018819]
That post was aimed at Spidey btw.
[/quote]

I don't disagree with a lot of that. I didn't see the point of the keane signing but I did feel a little sorry for rafa the amount of attention he got for not playing keane. how much attention does fergie get not playing berbatosh? he made a mistake in the transfer market in regards to keane and wasn't given the money from the sale to put it right.

the truth is the last two transfer windows have been an absolute disaster (well, apart from johnson) and rafa does take the blame for that, I just wish more money was forthoming to put those mistakes right.
 
Haha Berbatosh.

Well yeah but Ferguson can afford to make mistakes such as that due to years of success as well as the strength of his team as it is. We can't, we're skint and our squad isn't as good.

Benitez has signed:

1. Keane for £20 million and seemingly decided within a matter of weeks he didn't fancy him or know where he was going to fit in.
2. Dossena for £8 million after shipping out one of our greatest servants in recent years to replace him with this dud. What made it worse was the fact he seemingly had never watched him play.
3. Aquilani for upwards of £20 million after playing a pivotal role in driving out one of our star players due to his man management approach. He signs an injury prone player whilst INJURED and then doesn't fancy him when he is fit.

That's £48 million of utter shite disasters. To put that into perspective he could have signed David Villa and David Silva for that amount. Instead, we're worse off than we were before when we had Riise, Alonso and Crouch.

If I was the board I wouldn't give him money either.
 
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