FSG
- Thread starter Gary25
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Bring back Hicks and Gillett! Yeehaw!!!
Far be it for me to argue with you, KB, but the binary aspect of this view here is simply what I don't get. We buy Keita (or VVD, or both) and it's a feather in their cap? We don't and it's a black mark against them? I think far too much emphasis is placed on owners when it comes to transfers as their are so many factors at play. I daresay they are backing Klopp to the hilt this summer and if So'ton or RBL come up with a price for Vvd or Keita, I'd be willing to bet FSG will pay it. But if those clubs are unwilling to sell - or sell to us - is that the fault of FSG? Not in my view.
As I mentioned in the opening paragraph, their responsibility covers more than transfers & signings and merchandising and revenue but more importantly the leadership, assertion of influence and key appointments.
The "(I'd love it if they deliver the likes of VVD and Keita. Love it)" part - obviously a tongue in the cheek, isn't meant to level criticism or award credit to them - depending on how the deals go.
They will (as any good player signings), however (hopefully), help to paper over the cracks and help to bridge the gap and provide us with more breathing space and time to work on the structure and networking, before we fall behind (again) to the other clubs (who are spending big bucks and/or have better structure in place than us).
Perhaps not the best of examples - but why is it that despite the high turnover in managerial and DoF appointments, Tottenham can still progress positively? Daniel Levy obviously has a vision/principle and stucks by it (while making tweaks). The appointments involved were no greenhorns either.
I believe majority of our fans are sensible. It's just the expectation and love for the club that increases expectation. You've been working hard and got promoted to the top class. Despite working
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Very valid points Binny. Good read. Appreciate the effort!
Indeed. A bigger indication of their success (for me) is who they hire. And, not just managers but in the top positions at the club. It seems - manager aside - they have fallen short here. Or fallen short of what I'd label as adequate, anyway.
Ultimately they have to hire good football people, and sign the cheques. They have done alright with Klopp, so now I'd like to see them sign a few cheques. Which I believe they will this summer.
I do wonder what went on with VVD, though.
Yes mate, which was my point in my initial post on page 1
I believe non of our key position holders had any sort of position in football clubs before?
Markus Breglec (Marketing director) - formerly HTC
Andy Hughes (Chief financial officer) - formerly Hilton Hotels and the Cendant Corporation
Billy Hogan (Chief commercial officer) - formerly Fenway Sports Management
Peter Moore (CEO) - formerly Electronic Arts, SEGA
(Even Ian Ayre's only football club related experience was a brief 3 yr spell at Huddersfield Town (and I wonder which division they were in back then?))
Back to Edwards again, how much contact could he possibly have built during his time in his role as Head of Performance Analysis at Tottenham and Portsmouth?
It's all good having continuity and rewarding employees for their performance but experience is crucial too, esp. at a big club. Sevilla for example, promoted Oscar Arias to succeed Monchi but he had already worked with the latter for 3-4 years.
Imagine negotiating with the likes of Aulas, Monchi, Zorc and Reed. 😕
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Finally someone who is seeing through these clowns.
First we let Everton get Rooney and now VVD, you must be fuming.
Just kidding, but no I don't think they are shit at all
14th transfer window under them and we're all still hoping and praying lessons have been learnt and they'll go about their business (or the people they've employed to look after transfers) in a shrewd, ruthless manner. Hoping they'll back the man they wanted and who they gave a new 6 year contract too just a year after taking over, the man who delivered the sought after CL footie...a reason many said was why we couldnt attract the top players. Made a profit last summer as well. This summer could make or break us for years to come I don't think that's an exaggeration. They either get serious or fuck off.
So to use Salah at £35m++, VVD who we know they were prepared to pay say at least £40-50m AND Keita at a minimum of £50m, as signs of intent is stupid ? Sorry but to the contrary it's totally stupid to ignore those and then claim FSG are doing nothing and not backing the club.
Go to sleep Gary.
Whilst your comments re. having a solid working base for the club are clear and indisputable, I'm not sure they have such a direct correlation to on-field success as you seem to have concluded. Especially through your use of a number of examples (Juve, Southampton, Spurs, RB - the most hated team in the BL because they are considered to have bought their way to the top, the way City and Chelsea did in the PL) that have had limited competition and/or still aren't at the top of their respective leagues, which doesn't exactly support your theories, and especially when some of them have done so not by outstanding management but by out-spending their competition.
By it's nature football is cyclical. I don't care which team and in whatever league, no team stays at the top consistently (maybe RM, Barca and Bayern can be partially exempt from that statement due to the particular nature of their leagues and money).
Chelsea won the league then slipped to 10th, having fired their manager, one of the best in the game, midseason when flirting with the relegation zone.
United have finished 7th, 4th, 5th and 6th (an average position lower than Liverpool) since Ferguson left despite being the richest team in the world (though to give credit they have won the FAC, LC and EL, even if against opposition we'd also have pissed on).
Arsenal have had steady management as a club and a high quality manager for years but have only pottered around the Top 4 for the past 13 years, just once finishing in 2nd (yet never challenging for the title) and their only European trophies in their whole history a Fairs Cup in 1970 and Cup Winners Cup in 1994 (to give them credit 3xFACs in the past 4 seasons).
Are Chelsea and City, the only two consistent performers at the top of the PL now, where they are due to good management ? No, as clearly the records indicate their metamorphosis came about only after massive investment.
And so on to Spurs. One has to wonder how much of their rise has been due to good management (sorry, I disagree that Levy has been managing the club in a responsible or visionary way and they have had substantial assistance from the council over their redeveloping of their ground and Wembley). As to league form, what would have happened if we had got Ali ? Or they hadn't found Kane ? It is only the past 2 seasons they have finished 3rd and 2nd and looked maybe slightly better than they actually are. Prior to that over the past 10 years : 11th, 8th, 4th, 5th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 5th with the only silverware a UEFA Cup in 2008.
They shouldn't be held up as some beacon because, even with our mismanagement and flirtation with insolvency thanks to G&H, we still have an average league position of just 0.2 lower over that period, and, unlike Spurs, we actually had two genuine attempts at the PL title, not like them falling away to finish 10 & 7 points behind (last two seasons). I don't expect them to finish Top 4 this season, so what will be made of this outstanding management then I wonder (naturally a hypothetical at this point) ?
FFP - not specifically in response to your posts but let's not lose sight of the fact that our spending has also been limited by income, especially prior to the past 2 years, and in that regard the major gains in income from global marketing goes to providing a basis for LFC/Klopp to spend going forward. Without it we wouldn't be in the same strong financial position. Note that spending on infrastructure does not count towards FFP.
I totally agree with you on the promoting of non-football people to key positions. However sometimes that works too, just less often. You can be forgiven for trying and failing but then need to learn from that and change tack.
I'm not promoting or unequivocally supporting FSG at this stage, the jury is undoubtedly still out, however I find that pointing at other teams as examples of good management (unsupported by facts) and the fierce criticism on here by some, to be short-sighted and petty when many facts speak to the exact opposite.
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No, they're pretty great as owners go, so far.
Some of us remember the previous two owners.
Gary secretly supports Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea. And all them rich clubs in China too.
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Todays marks the special day, 7 years since we bought this "superstar". When everything was lovely and working great under the previous owners. Gary's post is summed up in this clip.
Look at where we are now and compare it to then, summer of 2010.
FSG are alright aren't they......
Look at where we are now and compare it to then, summer of 2010.
FSG are alright aren't they......
I don't agree that signing Klopp was a fluke. They wanted him all along and you can bet they didn't just make contact when they decided to let Rodgers go. Excellent summary otherwise.
No-one's claiming FSG have got everything right - apart from anything else they themselves have admitted otherwise, But the idea that they in any way deserve the description "a bit sh!t" or that they're "clowns" is just silly.
They're more stable and reliable than them but if that's all we can say oh they're better than the previous ones then god help us
You have ZERO actual evidence to suggest we were prepared to pay x, y or z for any player.
You are speculating based on rumour and hearsay.
You could just as easily say we are prepared to sell Coutinho and Mane. It might not be true but as a theoretical argument that FSG are cunts its bang on.
Im not saying I agree with the OP, and IF we sign 140m worth of talent then hes going to look pretty stupid and you pretty prophetic. Right now its 100% the other way round.
For the record I of course hope its he who looks stupid end of August.
Our average 20-30m net spend per window would suggest were you a betting man, you are in the box seat to look daft when it all plays out.
What do you think FSG could/should do better, Gary?
Well in their time as owners they've:
Missed out on key transfer targets such as Costa, Mkhitaryan, Van Dijk, Sanchez, Dele Ali, Texeira, Gotze, Willian, Konoplyanka...among others. You don't get all your targets I get that but God almighty we seem to have a real problem in that regard.
Been caught/reported tapping up players on 3 separate occasion's...Clint Dempsey, Academy player at Stoke and most recently VVD. It's just a wonder the book hasn't been thrown as us yet. Tapping up goes on all the time, granted, but we've this wonderful ability of getting caught....but thats now FSG's fault some might say...well they do employ poeple in key positions at the Club tasked with not running the Club through the mud with this sort of thing. Fail.
Enforcing this bizarre, stats/value driven transfer committee on the then Football Manager, Brendan Rodgers...signing players he didn't want, not signing players he did want, failing to strengthen at critical times...namely January of that fucking season.
I could go on and on and on.
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Appoint Gary as CEO
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The way they fired Dalglish was unforgivable. The way they had the most retarded fucking twat of lawyer to ever walk the face of the earth represent one of our best ever players, was also unforgivable. They have a long long way to go to be viewed as a net positive in my eyes.
Please do. You started the conversation, after all.
Which owners in the Prem would you rather have?
What a very strange post.
Zero actual evidence ? How about :
Player X : Salah is already in the bag at the figure I quoted. So I can't be 100% wrong whatever happens (66.7% at worst) !
Player Y : LFC issued a statement apologising for our tapping up. Since VVD had already agreed to move to Liverpool do you honestly think it would be less than £40m (and more likely much more). That isn't rumour or hearsay, it's based on statements from LFC & VVD !
Player Z : Keita has been on Klopp's lips for a long time and clearly, with all RBL's media announcements of refusals to sell, they are under pressure from somewhere, whilst we have stayed absolutely silent rather than the usual denials of any interest, despite massive media pressure around the club to release information on a potential Keita bid.
So all three have a very real basis for assumption. Your examples of Coutinho and Mane obviously aren't comparable.
I don't think it's being even the slightest bit prescient considering two out of the three would almost certainly have been done by now except for that contemptible loudmouth spouting to the media. And if we don't get those done I wouldn't consider I would look in the slightest bit daft because it wouldn't change the fact we are/were after those three players and that £140m is the minimum it's going to take to get them. I've never said 'we'll get them' so whether we do or not is immaterial.
I also don't think the historical average spend per window under FSG is any indicator of what they'll spend with Klopp, with massively increased income from the PL and with the new main stand now completed. Anyway fingers crossed we can still get VVD and Keita done, and if we do I won't be crowing about forecasting it (though I'll be extremely happy we got it done) because it was never about that in the first place. Just about FSG being willing to support their manager.
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