Did they take their eye off the ball during our acquisition then, and how have they turned things around. Is there a consensus among the fans about the owners?
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Did they take their eye off the ball during our acquisition then, and how have they turned things around. Is there a consensus among the fans about the owners?
I have a limited knowledge of that subject just to be candid!
January will be a big test of their sincerity.
I hope the August debacle was more a local fuck-up (Ayres), of course the buck still stops with John Henry.
They must now see what every supporter and Rodgers knew was going to happen.
They need to pull out the stops, and for that window at least forget moneyball principles, and expect to pay a premium both in terms of wages and fee for the right people.
regards
I hope the August debacle was more a local fuck-up (Ayres), of course the buck still stops with John Henry.
They must now see what every supporter and Rodgers knew was going to happen.
They need to pull out the stops, and for that window at least forget moneyball principles, and expect to pay a premium both in terms of wages and fee for the right people.
regards
Yup, I'd be completely stunned if they didn't give Rodgers a decent whack of money for some new toys.
R
RedZeppelin III
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so seems both clubs are very much in a similar position , waiting to see if FSG know what the fuck they're doing after making some poor mistakes .
It can't be good for either club that both are under-going so called 're-biulding' stages . It will be very interesting to see how FSG come out of this , the pressure is on and they need results .
Your right mate. Patience patience. I just would like to be pleasantly surprised a little more often and see him exceed rather than mange expectation on occasion.
Well, seeing as the Sox were WS champions in 2004 and 2007 under their owenership, and just 12 months ago were still considered very real contenders for the title still, I'd say they do know what they're doing, when it comes to baseball, at least. Yes, mistakes have been made, and recently, but the majority of their stay at Fenway has seen the previously laughable Red Sox become annual contenders for the best part of the last decade or so.
Regarding football, I can't argue with you, as there is no historical data to go by... We are all just waiting and hoping, yes. But, what keeps me optimistic is that when they first bought the Sox, they pledged to do what was needed regarding their stadium - and they have - and to make the Sox champions, whilst working within their system - which they have, also. I'll believe in them, until I see reason not to... THey did what they said they would do in Boston. Here's hoping that's replicated in Liverpool.
Expectations need to be managed though. We're a club in shambles.
If he started giving the fans hopes of higher finishes, then there's every chance there would be a backlash when we finish 7th (realistically).
I prefer him to downplay any hope of success in any form this year. These man's got a mountain to climb, and I prefer the honesty about how to win take to climb
As long as he doesn't say utopia
He's made enough tactical choices of late that have made a difference within games when required, not just tweaks but occasional early subs or a complete reshuffle of tactics, and it's by and large worked. He's also allowed us to go more direct when required and it's worked (see recent games against Newcastle, Everton and Chelsea). I don't know what magic people are looking for, but he's not Merlin and his hands are tied in many respects, he's made the most of what he's got and given more youngsters a go than any manager we've had in recent times. I heard someone say that's because he's been forced to. Well not really, other managers would have persevered with our under-performing, overpaid deadwood.
He's taken grief for not managing every competition, but then he's got a thread bare squad that isn't entirely his doing. We're doing reasonably well in Europe and his Premiership games have by and large seen what we already know confirmed, we need a striker. We've also been unlucky a few times too, on the end of horrible officiating.
Localny's still banging the Rafa drum. Just not the one we heard in his last two seasons where he squandered millions and was buried by his own stubbornness.
He's taken grief for not managing every competition, but then he's got a thread bare squad that isn't entirely his doing. We're doing reasonably well in Europe and his Premiership games have by and large seen what we already know confirmed, we need a striker. We've also been unlucky a few times too, on the end of horrible officiating.
Localny's still banging the Rafa drum. Just not the one we heard in his last two seasons where he squandered millions and was buried by his own stubbornness.
Yeah, he has plenty of time changed his initial idea towards a game. Which is fine if it happens every now and then, but a bit worrying if it is the trend.
Not really. Football's not an exact science, you can think things out in theory but until you're out there on the pitch, you can't really fully prepare for how the game unfolds, the opposition tactics or personnel. How many times did Mourinho completely change things at Chelsea? He's a great manager but he changed things when they weren't working, if a player was struggling against an opponent, to the point of making three subs at half time.
It'd be a bit more worrying if the issue was obvious to any average Joe, like not putting a defensive midfielder on one of the best players in the World.
Jose has a game plan which works well. They have extreme tought pressure on the opposition with two players all the time. It is very hard to break it down and in the end he has strong forwards who can kill those thight games. If it doesn't work in one odd game he is capable of changing this around to get him a draw or even a win.
To compare Rodgers with Jose is unfair. He is not in the same league, football wise or personal wise. He obviously has a plan to play a much more ambitious football, and for that he should be reckognized. But he need to adress each game as if ti is a winnable one when he is manager of Liverpool. And a few games now he has missed totally on his gameplan. Hence it looks like he is unprepared for what he is facing. I don't like that. It should not happen too often.
I'm not comparing him to Jose, you're missing the point. I was saying that even 'great' managers have to have a rethink. It's not about tactics, Rodger's tactics may well work exceptionally with the right personnel, it's about managing the game itself and observing and making the correct decisions as it unfolds. I don't mean his general philosophy.
I agree that even great managers have to rethink. But if they have to rethink every game they are not great managers.
And to be fair, Rodgers have a long way to go before he is a great manager. he has some potential, but to show some nice passes with Swansea and Reading doesn't make you a great manager. He has got himself in a perfect position to show his talent now, and so far he has not proven anything to say he is the guy to lift our club. He has great players top work with, and a lot of people would love to step into his job. Still he already is talking about the player he doesn't have.
The players he has brought in has been meh. Allen is a good prospect, and he is debated in other threads so I leave it. But he has yet to dominate games for us. Borini is defended by people because he is played out of position, but still he has more running than skills in him.
We haven't had the time to make a sensible judgment about Borini yet. If in time things turn out the way you say, we'll have to face up to that and put matters right, but now is too soon to decide that one way or the other.
BTW Rodgers is *not* "in a perfect position to show his talent", not after the striker fiasco in last summer's transfer window. It's quite true that he hasn't proven himself yet but, if you were really expecting him to have done that after less than half a season, I'll have lots of that sh!t you're smoking.
BTW Rodgers is *not* "in a perfect position to show his talent", not after the striker fiasco in last summer's transfer window. It's quite true that he hasn't proven himself yet but, if you were really expecting him to have done that after less than half a season, I'll have lots of that sh!t you're smoking.
When they came in they appointed an untested young coach who went on to revitalise a club that had not won the championship since 1918. In his first year in change they won the World Series. Then, two years later, they won it again.
However, in the off season of 2011 FSG spunked a huge amount of money on massive signings. And I mean huge, and everyone said they were a shoe-in for the title next year. It looked like that was the case as they were leading the division with a month to go (the regular season is 162 games) Red Sox then proceeded to implode, had the worst Sept in major league history and didn't even make the play offs as a wild card.
Cue sacking of manager, and bringing in a new one, Bobby Valentine, the guy we saw on Being: Liverpool. He immediately fucked loads of players off, slagged off others, and generally talked and talk and talked.
The new season began as bad as the last one ended. He wasn't even on speaking terms with some of his coaches.
They sold one of our best players (my favourite player TheGreekGodOfWalks Kevin Youkilis.
Then half way through the season FSG decided to sell all the ones they bought for huge amounts.
Bombed out Punto, Gonzalez, Beckett and Crawford in what they call a blockbuster trade, with the LA Dodgers. Thus saving themselves $262 million dollars in pay.
The season then limped to an end with the Red Sox finishing bottom in the NL East (it's only 5 teams but this is traditionally the toughest one of the six in MLB) with their worst record since 1965. A total fucking disaster.
Valentine sacked the day the regular season ends end FSG bring in another manager (a former Red Sox coach who is now a major manager in the AL East)
Cue FSG talk of not making the same mistakes again and not spending like they have before. The Red Sox Nation is pretty agitated right now.
Incidentally lots of hard core Sox fans hate us for sucking up FSG money they believe should be spent on making the Red Sox WS Champs again.
Any other questions let me know.
Ah no Mark, I've moved on. Time to hope for the next Rafa, not the old one. But given his performances over several seasons, not just the last one, I doubt we'd be in 12th right now if he was here. Cheers
It's the area of management where Maureen's influence most affects Rodgers i think. Subs. Decisive and frequent. I like it.
I hope it continues, but both Rafa and Ged started out changing things quickly. Once they felt they really had their team out on the pitch playing their style, they got stubborn and needed major calamities to change anything at all. That's the real test - remaining pragmatic about such matters when you've established the team in your own image.
True enough. Ok, back to being patient again. Thanks Sean, I'm heading out to just lower/delay my expectations again, I'll be back in a few minutes.
Thanks for that Sean - ( 162 games really ? ) but if they made massive purchases in 2011 which appeared to be delivering, would it not have been the manager who was deserving of the fans ire. Sounds like they royally fucked up with this Valentine chap - he came across as a complete knob in the documentary.
The fact that they are reining in their spending now is a bit of a worry, would it be a fair assessment that they are good on the commercial side of the club but hopeless as far as strategy is concerned on the playing side?
I don't think they're devious or shitheads like the last owners, they just don't seem to have a clue about Liverpool Football Club. They're certainly rubbish at appointing people to senior posts at the club and should have someone senior here running the club. If they don't make serious money available in January then the tide will turn against them. I strongly believe they'll sell within a year.
It's not a matter of having someone senior over here - apart from John Henry himself they don't come much more senior than Tom Werner in that organisation. The problem lies a little lower down the food chain at LFC, starting with a CEO who's good at what he knows (the commercial side) but, having been promoted to CEO, is having to step outside his field of competence in too many areas.
I don't agree about the selling bit. If it's true that they're getting shot of the Sox, we are now their biggest investment. I can't see them abandoning that in a hurry.
I don't agree about the selling bit. If it's true that they're getting shot of the Sox, we are now their biggest investment. I can't see them abandoning that in a hurry.
That said, well done to Ayre and the club for the action over Chang.
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