English Cricket/ *The Ashes*!

[SaintGeorge67]

Re: English Cricket

I don't follow cricket though I note some guy's now moaning that these players were 'set up'. Isn't that the point?

 

[Judge Jules]

Re: English Cricket

It's the Pakistani High Commissioner (a Commonwealth country's equivalent of an ambassador) who's saying that, and he's doing so in an attempt to limit the damage to his country's reputation. It would be interesting to know whether he actually believes a word of it.

 

[Spionkop69]

Re: English Cricket

Oo look the players involved 'arent in the right frame of mind' so they wont play. England request they pull out, they refuse. Then they pull this old chestnut out. Well done Pakistan, way to show some grace - not.

 

[Mersey86]

Re: English Cricket

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=41229.msg1169105#msg1169105 date=1283446158]
I don't follow cricket though I note some guy's now moaning that these players were 'set up'. Isn't that the point?
[/quote]
OK - well it's a garbage newspaper. What's the story behind this? Did they just decide to try and bribe a few Pakistani players with the aim of getting a big story and increasing their readership? Were they doing this for the "good of the game"? Or were they trying to manufacture news? Do they do this regularly, but often with no results, as the players don't bite? I know journalistic ethics do not apply with certain newspapers, but isn't this sort of practice bordering on the criminal?
Having newspapers do this sort of thing turns my stomach.

 

[manwithnoname]

Re: English Cricket

Yeah, poor the corrupt, cheating Pakistan

Fuck them, they got rumbled by a top-class journalist who does it better than anyone

 

[Spionkop69]

Re: English Cricket

[quote author=Mersey86 link=topic=41229.msg1169369#msg1169369 date=1283517448]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=41229.msg1169105#msg1169105 date=1283446158]
I don't follow cricket though I note some guy's now moaning that these players were 'set up'. Isn't that the point?
[/quote]
OK - well it's a garbage newspaper. What's the story behind this? Did they just decide to try and bribe a few Pakistani players with the aim of getting a big story and increasing their readership? Were they doing this for the "good of the game"? Or were they trying to manufacture news? Do they do this regularly, but often with no results, as the players don't bite? I know journalistic ethics do not apply with certain newspapers, but isn't this sort of practice bordering on the criminal?
Having newspapers do this sort of thing turns my stomach.
[/quote

That's all well and good but the Pakistanis or any of the other people they have caught had a choice. To do the right thing or be corrupt. I'm no fan of the NOTW, but in order for them to get these stories someone has to be greedy and / or corrupt. Something that the Pakistani cricket team have been all too often.

 

[Oncy]

Re: English Cricket

Fucking nerves on yer woman reading the Pakistani lads statement out on sky!!! she looks like shes being bummed by michael J Fox.
Id like to make her nervous then pop my cock in her hand.......a knife should do the trick.

 

[Mersey86]

Re: English Cricket

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41229.msg1169565#msg1169565 date=1283538823]
Yeah, poor the corrupt, cheating Pakistan corrupt yes, 'cheating' is a stretch here

they got rumbled by a top-class immoral journalist who does it better than anyoneis no better than they are - in fact, as the instigator, considerably worse. Shame that this is seen as good journalism and that people would buy such a rag.
[/quote]

 

[kingjulian]

Re: English Cricket

[quote author=Mersey86 link=topic=41229.msg1169741#msg1169741 date=1283565975]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41229.msg1169565#msg1169565 date=1283538823]
Yeah, poor the corrupt, cheating Pakistan corrupt yes, 'cheating' is a stretch here

they got rumbled by a top-class immoral journalist who does it better than anyoneis no better than they are - in fact, as the instigator, considerably worse. Shame that this is seen as good journalism and that people would buy such a rag.
[/quote]
[/quote]

What exactly is the difference between corruption and cheating? As the paying public i feel cheated....if this is not cheating i don't know what is. It also undermines the sport in a big way.

What moral rule is the journalist breaking?

 

[RMA]

Re: English Cricket

Good series this - Pakistan fought back from 2-0 down to 2-2 England won the final match by 120ish runs, beautiful bowling by swann - some warnesque turn.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Re: English Cricket

I liked pakistan's mature response the other day to another fixing claim. "It wasn't us it was them".

Classy.

 

[manwithnoname]

Re: English Cricket

The whole country is steeped in corruption, lies and cover-ups.

They shouldn't be allowed to play test cricket

 

[Atlas]

Re: English Cricket

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41229.msg1181059#msg1181059 date=1285246545]
The whole country is steeped in corruption, lies and cover-ups.

They shouldn't be allowed to play test cricket
[/quote]

The cricket mirrors the country in that sense of corruption, it will come as no surprise that the guy who claimed England took a bung was given his position by the countrys 'president'.

Why he claimed England took a bung is beyond me, he has burned bridges with the only country who was in a position to help them.
India have already said no Pakistan players to play in IPL, they are not allowed to play in their own country (and right now they probably couldn't even if they wanted to) its a flippin mess and a disgrace(and fudge all will be done to correct it).
ECB should certainly tell them where to stick it next time PCB ask them if they can use English grounds to play their home games.

 

[Portly]

Re: English Cricket

It's true that Pakistan is deeply corrupt, but then so are many, many other countries and I don't think isolating the Pakistanis is the answer.

Although the corruption can be maddening (remember the Mike Gatting/Shakoor Rana incident from which Gatting emerged the worse off?) Pakistan produces many exciting cricketers and we should do our best to rub along with them.

As a country Pakistan is a big problem in many ways but it's also a very important one.

 

[Atlas]

Re: English Cricket

As someone who supports Pakistani cricket, I can't see how England would want to help in the future.
Pakistan have too many times been involved in some form of controversy around the cricket, and thats fine but to try and play it smart and deflect attention from yourself by accusing another country (and then pulling back the statement when you realise you cocked up) is taking it a bit far.

I do believe that Pakistan have produced some of worlds best and exciting players, players with immense natural ability but have never really had the coaching or the structure in place to build on that to really dominate the sport.
If Pakistan had elected Imran Khan former capt then no doubt they would be in a better place right now, as it happens they didnt and well suffer as a result.

 

[Portly]

Re: English Cricket

It's a feature about Pakistani cricket that interests me, Asim. They don't seem to have much of a league structure as they do in other cricketing countries, but every so often they just produce fabulous players seemingly out of nowhere! ;D

 

[RMA]

Re: English Cricket

[quote author=Portly link=topic=41229.msg1181139#msg1181139 date=1285253626]
It's a feature about Pakistani cricket that interests me, Asim. They don't seem to have much of a league structure as they do in other cricketing countries, but every so often they just produce fabulous players seemingly out of nowhere! ;D
[/quote]

Very true! the current fast bowlers in their team - Mohammed Asif, Aamer, Gul etc and even the opening spell from Wahab riaz have just seemingly come out of nowhere.

Its good to see broad back and bowling at 90mph+

 

[RMA]

Re: English Cricket

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41229.msg1181059#msg1181059 date=1285246545]
The whole country is steeped in corruption, lies and cover-ups.

They shouldn't be allowed to play test cricket
[/quote]

India and South Africa to name a couple in recent memory have been plagues by this as welll - banning the whole team isnt the answer the authorities in the respective countries need to do more to prevent this from happening again.

 

[Atlas]

Re: English Cricket

I would ban em f**k it, and Americans from any involvement in football. Messin up my enjoyment of the games.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Re: English Cricket

I wouldn't ban the team from playing because that would just be totally unfair, they should simply dish out life bans and prosecute the players found to be involved. I would agree that a fresh start is needed and that those who are currently running the game in Pakistan need to be removed. Besides, cricket needs Pakistan at the moment.

Just seen the ashes squad thats been named, Tremlett seems the only slight shock. Fuck knows how Bresnan has managed to retain his place, he's been shite for most of the summer.

 

[kingjulian]

Re: English Cricket

[quote author=Asim link=topic=41229.msg1181216#msg1181216 date=1285261010]
I would ban em f**k it, and Americans from any involvement in football. Messin up my enjoyment of the games.
[/quote]

Banning a country is wrong -

Pakistan should be allowed to field an international team. But ICC should stop recognizing PCB as a legitimate regulatory body, unless there are whole changes to the organization structure and people in it. No other cricket board has been constantly involved in controversy like the PCB. BCCI is not particularly a sound organization as well, but they don't interfere with the sporting side of things. When it was found that Jadeja, Azar etc were involved in match fixing, they took strong measures to eradicate the problem and did not hide it under the carpet. Also, i guess the ICC is powerless where BCCI is concerned....too much money.

It probably is good for Pakistan to get some proper governance in place using this as an excuse. I think if they actually tried, they may form a team that can dominate.

 

[Portly]

Re: English Cricket

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=41229.msg1181234#msg1181234 date=1285263050] Tremlett seems the only slight shock.
[/quote]

Last time Tremlett played for England was three years ago, but Aggers was saying on the radio that since he moved to Surrey his form has got better and he is less "Mr. Nice Guy."

I guess the logic of including him is that shorter bowlers who make the ball swing and seam - like Jimmy Anderson - often get tonked all round the ground in Australia where the wickets are unhelpful. Tall bowlers like Tremlett who bang the ball into the wicket tend to do better.

 

[kingjulian]

Re: English Cricket

Ashes squad Andrew Strauss (capt), Alastair Cook, Jonathan Trott, Kevin Pietersen, Paul Collingwood, Ian Bell, Eoin Morgan, Matt Prior, Steve Davies, Stuart Broad, Tim Bresnan, Graeme Swann, James Anderson, Steven Finn, Chris Tremlett, Monty Panesar

There is reasonably sound reasoning behind Tremlett's selection.

Tremlett enjoyed a resurgent season with Surrey having joined from Hampshire, taking 48 Championship scalps at 20.18. Six weeks ago he was in prime form and although he tailed off towards the end of the summer he earned strong reviews. Tremlett has always had the attributes to be a Test-match fast bowler, but has had to battle against a perception that his character is suspect under pressure. Although he will start outside the first XI, any injuries to the pace attack will give him the chance to prove his detractors wrong.

How well do you think Swann will fair against the Aussies this time around? That will be crucial for England's chances.

I think England's fast bowlers will get tonked around.

I would play both Swann and Panesar in Sydney.

 

[Portly]

Re: English Cricket

Not wishing to put the mockers on Swann, but I expect him to do well in Australia. He must be one of the best spinners in the world a the moment, he gets plenty of tweak on the ball and he is very cunning. He seems to like Ponting in particular! he has also got that important quality for a spinner - big balls. If he is whacked for 6 he is still willing to back himself and give the next ball plenty of air, where lesser spinners like Panesar resort to bowling faster and flatter.

 

[Mersey86]

Re: English Cricket

[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41229.msg1181266#msg1181266 date=1285267002]
Ashes squad Andrew Strauss (capt), Alastair Cook, Jonathan Trott, Kevin Pietersen, Paul Collingwood, Ian Bell, Eoin Morgan, Matt Prior, Steve Davies, Stuart Broad, Tim Bresnan, Graeme Swann, James Anderson, Steven Finn, Chris Tremlett, Monty Panesar

There is reasonably sound reasoning behind Tremlett's selection.
I am OK with both Tremlett and Panesar, but would have preferred Shahzad to Bresnan

I think England's fast bowlers will get tonked around. So do I

I would play both Swann and Panesar in Sydney. Makes sense, except for our 4 bowler policy. Going into a Test with 2 seamers seems risky. Australia have had an advantage over recent years in having batsmen who can supplement an attack with different variety - Symonds, Clarke, North - even Katich. We just have Collingwood.



[/quote]

 

[kingjulian]

Re: English Cricket

He is clearly the Spinner in form in world cricket right now. He is also going to play against a team that has traditionally found it difficult to play against off-break bowlers. So i think he will do well.


As you say, if there are a couple of things that can be highlighted from his bowling style, it must be..
1. Turns it at pace. Which means he can bowl some real unplayable balls, when the batsman does not read him well.
2. He like to attack even when he is being hit for runs.
3. He seems to get the left handers out very cheaply.

However, i'm not sure how he would cope with Batsmen studying him. Most spinners (other than all-time great bowlers like Warne and Murali) have frequent hot and cold patches. It's mostly because their variations are not that deceptive anymore. When Mendis came to the scene he was pretty hot, but people learned the nuances of the Carrom ball pretty quickly and started reading him better. Same happened with Harbhajan and Saqlain - they were getting loads of wickets for about two/three years -then it dried. Harbhajan still manages to get by, but now he is just another off-break bowler with a little bit more variation than others. On the other hand Saqlain disappeared.

How will Swann react? Can he keep innovating? Does he have enough variations in his Arsenal...i have some doubts. The Aussies will be prepared for him....lets see how it goes.

 

[kingjulian]

Re: English Cricket

[quote author=Mersey86 link=topic=41229.msg1181270#msg1181270 date=1285268161]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41229.msg1181266#msg1181266 date=1285267002]
Makes sense, except for our 4 bowler policy. Going into a Test with 2 seamers seems risky. Australia have had an advantage over recent years in having batsmen who can supplement an attack with different variety - Symonds, Clarke, North - even Katich. We just have Collingwood.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Ya they have always had great balance in their team. Earlier it was Gilli & Symonds who gave them the edge. Now, they have Watson, North and Clarke. They can comfortably go in with just four specialist bowlers. It's a good thing that Tim Paine is a very average bat.

 

[Oncy]

Re: English Cricket

A lot of question marks about a lot of players form going into the Ashes.
Worrying that only one batsman (Morgan) has really hit the heights all summer. Strauss has been ok in the main, but who else from Bell, Pieterson, Collingwood, Cook, Davis and Trott is guaranteed runs? Its not a great situation to be in especially when we already know we have a job to get 20 wickets on their tracks.

Strauss
Trott
Pieterson
Collingwood
Morgan
Prior
Broad
Swann
Bresnan
Anderson
Panesar

Would probably be my first team given that they dont like spin and i think two orthadox spinners could do some damage but having a 5 man attack leaves us NEEDING the top order to fire.
I think it'll more likely be the same team but with cook in for Panesar.

 

[kingjulian]

Re: English Cricket

I think Trott should come 1 down and Pietersen at number 4.

Do you have anyone else who can open with Strauss?

 

[Oncy]

Re: English Cricket

[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41229.msg1181291#msg1181291 date=1285271850]
I think Trott should come 1 down and Pietersen at number 4.

Do you have anyone else who can open with Strauss?
[/quote]Sadly no. I think Cook is all we have.