Elephant in the room....... suspect transfer policy

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

I think Brendan cleverly uses that developing kids thing to buy himself time.

I sincerely wish for your good, that you had actually seriously thought it out before you wrote that line.

That's got to be one of the most absurd, senseless thing I've read on this forum for a long while.

I want you to seriously think it through what you just wrote.

'Cleverly' ?
'Buy himself time' ? For what ?! World domination ?

Why the feck would ANYONE, let alone an intelligent man like Brodge, want to do that ?!?!

If you're a manager of ANY team, whether it's in sports or in the corporate world, why would you want to do such a silly thing ?!?!

 

[irishred]

So after about 4 or 5 games we're already saying that 20 year olds Can and Markovic are bad signings? We might as well never sign any top young players ever again.

Tbf I said it after 0 games.
http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/index.php?threads/emre-can.49193/page-8#post-1131351

I'm basically reiterating a point I made 3 months ago, but it only takes resonance because we've gone down the 'improve the squad' route again.
http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/index.php?threads/the-goodbye-thread.51561/page-3#post-1149838

I actually think Markovic could come good in a year or two, is he £20 million better than Ibe? No way! Especially, as I say, that money could have been utilised better to strengthen the first team for a title push. And then Harry Wilson who's been touted as a phenomenal talent for a while now, is 17, so it won't be too much longer before he is given an opportunity, perhaps another couple of years. But you don't want to halt either his nor Ibe's progress. If Markovic was bought for Chelsea he would've been sent straight back to Benfica for a year.

 

[peterhague]

Tbf I said it after 0 games.
http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/index.php?threads/emre-can.49193/page-8#post-1131351

I'm basically reiterating a point I made 3 months ago, but it only takes resonance because we've gone down the 'improve the squad' route again.
http://www.sixcrazyminutes.com/index.php?threads/the-goodbye-thread.51561/page-3#post-1149838

I actually think Markovic could come good in a year or two, is he £20 million better than Ibe? No way! Especially, as I say, that money could have been utilised better to strengthen the first team for a title push. And then Harry Wilson who's been touted as a phenomenal talent for a while now, is 17, so it won't be too much longer before he is given an opportunity, perhaps another couple of years. But you don't want to halt either his nor Ibe's progress. If Markovic was bought for Chelsea he would've been sent straight back to Benfica for a year.

Yeah I remember you making the point. I also remember being totally unconvinced that we could ever have gone and signed a couple of megastars, even if we'd wanted to.

I think you're making an error in looking at Markovic's start and arguing as if it was inevitable. I don't think it was. You buy a top class young player like that and you expect a decent return right away, together with some inconsistency and roughness. The kind of underperformance we're seeing is a risk of any kind of transfer, even a superstar.

I won't argue the specific case of Ibe because I was annoyed right from the start that he was loaned, that was stupid.

 

[Oliver Twist]

I won't argue the specific case of Ibe because I was annoyed right from the start that he was loaned, that was stupid.

Agreed except for this bit.

For me, Ibe on loan at Derby is far better for his development long term and, consequently, ours.

 

[keniget]

There is a valid debate to be had here but going on about Reina and Agger seems like a weird way to go about it.

I agree with Peter regarding our defence. I had to go along with everyone elses optimism regarding Lovren as I hadn't seen much of Southampton but it did feel like a big gamble. And the issue of Sakho really is baffling.

Mingolet I don't really have much confidence in and given that there seem to be a fair few decent keepers out there at the moment it feels a little disappointing to feel like we've paid 12M for a mid-table MOTD shot stopper.

And then there is Balotelli. It feels like a transfer committee moneyball type signing but who knows. Enough has been said on that front anyways.

All is not lost though. We've signed quite a few young players with obvious promise. There will be one or two that won't turn out as well as we'd hoped and probably one or two that won't succeed at all but we're not talking complete write-offs here, are we?

There is the makings of a good squad here. We need to make some signings for sure but a lot of the problems we have right now need to be resolved on the training ground and frustratingly that doesn't seem to be happening very quickly (if at all).

 

[redhorizon2]

We messed up on the Remy transfer, had we got him I can assure you we would've faired better.

 

[mark1975]

Agreed except for this bit.

For me, Ibe on loan at Derby is far better for his development long term and, consequently, ours.

I'm not sure I agree, I was with Peter from the off on this. He's the ideal replacement for Sterling, late in games or as an alternative.

Let's be honest, he's got more of an impact in him at the moment, than Markovic. He's essentially been loaned because he's lost his place on the bench to a £20m signing who can barely get a game and has given us zero impact. I don't get it. I mean, don't get me wrong, I get that games are good for his development, but he looks like he can do damage now.

 

[Rafiagra]

I've long thought that Rodgers doesn't have an eye for a player. The fact that his first signing was Borini epitomised it - his first pick was a player who blatantly wasn't up to it, and this was a guy he knew and had already worked with.

 

[MaBigTip]

I've long thought that Rodgers doesn't have an eye for a player. The fact that his first signing was Borini epitomised it - his first pick was a player who blatantly wasn't up to it, and this was a guy he knew and had already worked with.

Yeah I'm coming to that conclusion too. I don't want to though.

 

[peterhague]

I'm not sure I agree, I was with Peter from the off on this. He's the ideal replacement for Sterling, late in games or as an alternative.

Let's be honest, he's got more of an impact in him at the moment, than Markovic. He's essentially been loaned because he's lost his place on the bench to a £20m signing who can barely get a game and has given us zero impact. I don't get it. I mean, don't get me wrong, I get that games are good for his development, but he looks like he can do damage now.

What I didn't understand was the absolute haste to get him out the door. Clearly, if Markovic had performed as expected, if the attack had gelled quickly, if Sturridge hadn't got injured, then Ibe probably wouldn't have seen many minutes. But all those things were liable to go wrong, and they have, and therefore Ibe would've been a really useful option. Why not just wait and see then loan the guy in Jan if needs be?

It was complacent.

 

[Delinquent]

I never realised Jerry Laser was a tool until today.

It's funny how people can go under the radar like that. I think this thread will go down as his defining moment.

 

[cloggypop]

We messed up on the Remy transfer, had we got him I can assure you we would've faired better.

He is injured.

 

[Markeh]

When Suarez was leaving I took a look around the top goalscorers in Europe and most had already moved or would be impossible to sign except for a couple of names in the Dutch league who were still 'available', I'd never heard of them but I could've guessed they were alright and they ended up at Southampton. Some clubs make this transfer business look really easy.

Can we just sign the top couple of assisters and scorers in the dutch league every year or so, it'd probably save a load of hassle.

 

[cloggypop]

We should get Andrej Kramavic for 2 million euro. He looks boss.

 

[Fabio]

We should get Andrej Kramavic for 2 million euro. He looks boss.

Bony boss?

 

[cloggypop]

Bony boss?

I have not seen enough of him. Never heard of him until tonight! He scored a hat trick against Feyenoord in Europa League and looked great doing it. He looks pretty damn good on YouTube as well.
Do we have any Croatian footy experts on here?

 

[localny]

Right now, Remy looks like less of a risk than Balo.

 

[Markeh]

I have not seen enough of him. Never heard of him until tonight! He scored a hat trick against Feyenoord in Europa League and looked great doing it. He looks pretty damn good on YouTube as well.
Do we have any Croatian footy experts on here?

no need for experts... sign!

 

[Oliver Twist]

I'm not sure I agree, I was with Peter from the off on this. He's the ideal replacement for Sterling, late in games or as an alternative.

Let's be honest, he's got more of an impact in him at the moment, than Markovic. He's essentially been loaned because he's lost his place on the bench to a £20m signing who can barely get a game and has given us zero impact. I don't get it. I mean, don't get me wrong, I get that games are good for his development, but he looks like he can do damage now.

Maybe, and maybe you've seen more of him than I have.

But, development wise, getting odd minutes here or there for us is nothing like playing 90 every week for Derby. In my view, anyway.

 

[irishred]

Maybe, and maybe you've seen more of him than I have.

But, development wise, getting odd minutes here or there for us is nothing like playing 90 every week for Derby. In my view, anyway.

That's not entirely true, we perhaps could have used him as much as we're currently using Markovic.
In 7 appearances Markovic has completed 90 minutes once and that was against Middlesbrough with no goals and no assists. I suppose this isn't surprising when you calculate his total minutes into games it would be just over 4 games. But what I'm getting at is Ibe`s minutes aren't much better, we automatically assume because we're sending him away, the other team will play him every week. In 9 appearances so far, he's only completed 90 minutes twice and got 2 goals and no assists. With a slightly better minutes with his minutes totalling five and a half games, as opposed to Markovic`s just over 4. That's not factoring in the Championship beginning their season earlier and the fact that they have more games during the season.

 

[Oliver Twist]

Well, the powers that be obviously perceived Markovic to be further down the development line than Ibe. Being two years older and having plenty of first team games backs them up there. But whether he's actually a better player than Ibe, who knows.

But if Ibe isn't doing that well for Derby in a lower league (ie, not getting minutes), it's not a stretch to suggest he wouldn't be doing very well for us either.

 

[Best Believe It]

I think to an extent we're expecting an awful lot, transfer-wise, from our managers since Roy Evans - all haven't got out of the point where rebuilding is needed, at least for any decent length of time. Houllier and Rafa probably had one summer transfer window when the squad needed supplementing with two or the quality additions but I don't think either of them had the cash to really buy the quality we needed.

Brendan has, by and large, had to take punts on players. None of them before this summer have really been sure things. We've not been able to buy players like Kroos, players you could almost guarantee would be brilliant. This summer we had the money and the champions league football but we went down the road of signing a lot of players to ensure the squad was filled out. So, again, we've had to sign players with slight question marks over them, rather than being in a position of buying two or three top quality players. I think we're far more likely to be hit and miss in the transfer market until we have a strong squad that just needs a few additions each year. Then we can just be shopping at the top table or whatever the correct expression is.

EDIT: judicious use of the words 'had to', I suppose, when talking about Brendan's or the clubs transfer policy.

 

[peterhague]

Well, the powers that be obviously perceived Markovic to be further down the development line than Ibe. Being two years older and having plenty of first team games backs them up there. But whether he's actually a better player than Ibe, who knows.

But if Ibe isn't doing that well for Derby in a lower league (ie, not getting minutes), it's not a stretch to suggest he wouldn't be doing very well for us either.

Ibe's getting plenty of minutes (regular starter for them) and would have got a decent amount for us. But if he hadn't, he could have gone on loan in January.

That would have been the sensible approach to have taken.

 

[Oliver Twist]

Ibe's getting plenty of minutes (regular starter for them) and would have got a decent amount for us. But if he hadn't, he could have gone on loan in January.

I was just following the lead of the bloke I was responding to. But, if Ibe is getting a lot of minutes at Derby, that's great.

I am not sure he would have got a decent amount for us, though. That might depend on your definition of decent, mind.

 

[Jack D Rips]

Can he be brought back in January or is it a season long loan?

 

[ILD]

I've no real problem with Ibe at Derby. I would have preferred if he had gone to a premiership team but this loan deal is working out well for us and him. He has two goals from 5 games and top of the Championship. He is gaining valuable minutes.

We bought Lazar as his potential is huge. He isn't 20 million better than Ibe right now but we are hoping he can step up to be world class in a few years time. His potential stock was valued that high when we signed him. He obviously isn't showing any signs of his huge potential just yet but I'm willing to give him time. He really needs to emerge from his shell though. I'll afford him time as he's only 20 and in a new country but he looks very timid and too shy to try anything bar giving it straight back to our RB. I thought we were buying a lad who was here to fuck shit up. His initial interview with the club showed his ambition and confidence. I remember reading a report that he had a fight with Vucinic on the sidelines in his last game for Benfica. I was thinking we have a fiery Serb here with bags of confidence that LOVES running at defenders. I jokingly called him the Serbian Kaka after watching vids of him gliding past players with the ball at his feet. We haven't seen him run at full pelt yet. Still waiting for him to stretch his legs and gallop off down the pitch on the counter attack. He hasn't had the space yet but I'd like to him announce himself and show what he can do soon. Even a quick glimpse to get us excited and buy himself some time as I've noticed plenty of fans getting on his back already. He showed us his potential to ghost past players twice so far. He did it once in preseason and once against City. We do need more from him if he is to continue getting minutes for us. A few more cameo roles to build up some confidence is in order. A bit like Henderson when he first arrived. Trying to get through a game without impacting it in any way.

Didn't James Pearce (can't think of the journo) say Lazar was excellent and exciting in training??