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Downing

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[quote author=Modo link=topic=44931.msg1359063#msg1359063 date=1309708237]
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=44931.msg1359060#msg1359060 date=1309708151]
You're so wise, Gary.
[/quote]
How nice of you to point that out.
[/quote]

It's like he sees things the rest of us overlook, y'know?
 
I really really don't get this view that it doesnt matter what we pay for players and what we pay on wages.

Of course it does, we're trying to shift a whole bunch of muck players on obscene wages whom nobody wants to touch.

HOw could it not matter?
 
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44931.msg1359032#msg1359032 date=1309704606]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=44931.msg1359020#msg1359020 date=1309703617]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44931.msg1358984#msg1358984 date=1309699754]


Man C got a couple of world class players without CL football as well.


[/quote]

By offering them a gazillion pounds a week in wages.
[/quote]

But isn't that part and parcel of the transfer market today. World class players are well paid.
[/quote]

I think you've missed the point Modo. The wages City pay players is way higher than any other club.
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=44931.msg1359064#msg1359064 date=1309708390]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44931.msg1359063#msg1359063 date=1309708237]
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=44931.msg1359060#msg1359060 date=1309708151]
You're so wise, Gary.
[/quote]
How nice of you to point that out.
[/quote]

It's like he sees things the rest of us overlook, y'know?
[/quote]
Hahaha
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=44931.msg1359069#msg1359069 date=1309708897]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44931.msg1359032#msg1359032 date=1309704606]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=44931.msg1359020#msg1359020 date=1309703617]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44931.msg1358984#msg1358984 date=1309699754]


Man C got a couple of world class players without CL football as well.


[/quote]

By offering them a gazillion pounds a week in wages.
[/quote]

But isn't that part and parcel of the transfer market today. World class players are well paid.
[/quote]

I think you've missed the point Modo. The wages City pay players is way higher than any other club.
[/quote]
Point taken but the Suarez argument still holds water IMO.
However if do offload some of our higher earners like Cole. I wouldn't mind giving Mata his wage. Which should be on par with Silva no? ( I don't no what he earns).
 
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44931.msg1359071#msg1359071 date=1309709185]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=44931.msg1359069#msg1359069 date=1309708897]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44931.msg1359032#msg1359032 date=1309704606]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=44931.msg1359020#msg1359020 date=1309703617]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44931.msg1358984#msg1358984 date=1309699754]


Man C got a couple of world class players without CL football as well.


[/quote]

By offering them a gazillion pounds a week in wages.
[/quote]

But isn't that part and parcel of the transfer market today. World class players are well paid.
[/quote]

I think you've missed the point Modo. The wages City pay players is way higher than any other club.
[/quote]
Point taken but the Suarez argument still holds water IMO.
However if do offload some of our higher earners like Cole. I wouldn't mind giving Mata his wage. Which should be on par with Silva no? ( I don't no what he earns).
[/quote]

No, it should be what we can afford and relative to the other players at the club. Should he be paid more than Gerrard for instance?
 
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=44931.msg1359068#msg1359068 date=1309708720]
I really really don't get this view that it doesnt matter what we pay for players and what we pay on wages.

Of course it does, we're trying to shift a whole bunch of muck players on obscene wages whom nobody wants to touch.

HOw could it not matter?
[/quote]

Of course it matters but in terms of fees and targets we don't know how much we have, how much alternative suggestions will cost and who wants to join us.

Given the circumstances we are in and the fact that dealings seem very much to be being done behind closed doors the only thing we can really consider this summer is whether the players we are getting are better than what we have.
 
Why do you keep assuming we'll get mata?

He's currently playing champions league footy. Clubs offering him champions league footy are interested him. There's talk of 25m plus.

You don't want us to spend more than 14m on a player who we know plays well in the premiership & needs no time at all to adjust, yet you're happy to spend 25m+ on a player from another country who will need time to adjust, may not even like it at all or might not be able to handle the league. It makes no sense at all.
 
We are at the cusp of seeing some youngsters coming through from the academy, and making useful contribution in the squad.

We have to make use of that and take some calculated risks. If we do this right, we can get right back up on top without needing City kind of money.

I feel the likes of Downing and Adam will get us no where. We will be in the same old position next year, where we are trying to replace them. At these mooted prices (for Downing), it doesn't make any sense at all. Is he better than Rierra? Rierra had a sweet touch a good cross, and did well for us. We bought him for 7million and sold him for lesser.

Keane was premiership proven, it meant nothing for us. I'm not going to hang on to "premiership proven" as the one and only relevant factor. How a player fits into our team;s need considering the players we have coming through is a more relevant factor, and who here can say Downing is a better fit than Mata or anyone for that matter? So why are we arguing about this like a bunch of crazies?
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=44931.msg1359042#msg1359042 date=1309705641]
Yes, that must be it.
[/quote]

Hahaha !
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=44931.msg1359080#msg1359080 date=1309710285]
Why do you keep assuming we'll get mata?

He's currently playing champions league footy. Clubs offering him champions league footy are interested him. There's talk of 25m plus.

You don't want us to spend more than 14m on a player who we know plays well in the premiership & needs no time at all to adjust, yet you're happy to spend 25m+ on a player from another country who will need time to adjust, may not even like it at all or might not be able to handle the league. It makes no sense at all.
[/quote]
Again Suarez. Cost us around £25 Million, played in a CL club, didn't have any premier league experience.
I get your point. You're being realistic and I completely understand, but I don't think Downing is the way forward. Getting Mata is indeed wishful thinking but IMO he's a type of player we should be looking for. We can't just fold and think no world class player or potential world class player would want to join us.
 
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44931.msg1359090#msg1359090 date=1309711837]
Getting Mata is indeed wishful thinking but IMO he's a type of player we should be looking for. We can't just fold and think no world class player or potential world class player would want to join us.
[/quote]

I do agree with that, but we might have asked about him already and been turned down either by the club or the player?

Some seem to assume that we are choosing our signings over every other player in the World. Maybe we are. But maybe we are choosing our signings based on who we can get.

As long as we improve on what we have then I am happy. We can still keep on improving over time. I'm not too impatient.
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=44931.msg1359069#msg1359069 date=1309708897]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44931.msg1359032#msg1359032 date=1309704606]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=44931.msg1359020#msg1359020 date=1309703617]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44931.msg1358984#msg1358984 date=1309699754]


Man C got a couple of world class players without CL football as well.


[/quote]

By offering them a gazillion pounds a week in wages.
[/quote]

But isn't that part and parcel of the transfer market today. World class players are well paid.
[/quote]

I think you've missed the point Modo. The wages City pay players is way higher than any other club.
[/quote]

Exactly. It's like it's black or it's white. Look up Grey, Modo. There's well paid and there's what Toure and co are on. Yes you have to be willing to pay a premium, but you also have to have some scruples too..
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=44931.msg1359094#msg1359094 date=1309712500]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44931.msg1359090#msg1359090 date=1309711837]
Getting Mata is indeed wishful thinking but IMO he's a type of player we should be looking for. We can't just fold and think no world class player or potential world class player would want to join us.
[/quote]

I do agree with that, but we might have asked about him already and been turned down either by the club or the player?

Some seem to assume that we are choosing our signings over every other player in the World. Maybe we are. But maybe we are choosing our signings based on who we can get.

As long as we improve on what we have then I am happy. We can still keep on improving over time. I'm not too impatient.
[/quote]

About sums it up.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=44931.msg1359101#msg1359101 date=1309713293]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=44931.msg1359094#msg1359094 date=1309712500]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44931.msg1359090#msg1359090 date=1309711837]
Getting Mata is indeed wishful thinking but IMO he's a type of player we should be looking for. We can't just fold and think no world class player or potential world class player would want to join us.
[/quote]

I do agree with that, but we might have asked about him already and been turned down either by the club or the player?

Some seem to assume that we are choosing our signings over every other player in the World. Maybe we are. But maybe we are choosing our signings based on who we can get.

As long as we improve on what we have then I am happy. We can still keep on improving over time. I'm not too impatient.
[/quote]
About sums it up.
[/quote]
May I say that, if Downing is the best winger we can get, it's sad state of affairs to be in.
In that case there's nothing more to do than hope for the best.
 
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44931.msg1359104#msg1359104 date=1309713743]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=44931.msg1359101#msg1359101 date=1309713293]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=44931.msg1359094#msg1359094 date=1309712500]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44931.msg1359090#msg1359090 date=1309711837]
Getting Mata is indeed wishful thinking but IMO he's a type of player we should be looking for. We can't just fold and think no world class player or potential world class player would want to join us.
[/quote]

I do agree with that, but we might have asked about him already and been turned down either by the club or the player?

Some seem to assume that we are choosing our signings over every other player in the World. Maybe we are. But maybe we are choosing our signings based on who we can get.

As long as we improve on what we have then I am happy. We can still keep on improving over time. I'm not too impatient.
[/quote]
About sums it up.
[/quote]
May I say that, if Downing is the best winger we can get, it's sad state of affairs to be in.
In that case there's nothing more to do than hope for the best.
[/quote]

I know he's not the most fashionable player around, but he's better than alot of people are giving him credit for. People were happy for us to go for James Milner and he's not too dissimilar. Downing's end product is the main thing and it's improved season upon season, particularly last year in a relatively poor and struggling Villa side. He gives his all, gives the side balance and chips in where it matters. We've got to build and like Richy said, it's going to be a long process which we must show some patience over. He's a big improvement and I think he'll win alot of people over.
 
When/if he joins I'll definitely be supporting him. He's not a terrible player I actually think, some areas of his game is top notch. He's better than A. Johnson, SWP, Walcott etc IMO.
Question remains, will he improve our team? I have my doubts, but we'll see.
 
Of course he'll improve the team. He offers more than our current left wingers
 
Modo, I usually agree with you on here but over the past 3 pages, Ive just about disagreed with everyting you've said.

Sort it out, Holmes.
 
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=44931.msg1359131#msg1359131 date=1309716549]
Modo, I usually agree with you on here but over the past 3 pages, Ive just about disagreed with everyting you've said.

Sort it out, Holmes.
[/quote]

Sorry to disappoint you. Courageous of you to come out and say that you agree with me on certain things. Not that common, you know.... 😉

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44931.msg1359127#msg1359127 date=1309716241]
Of course he'll improve the team. He offers more than our current left wingers
[/quote]
Will he get us to the CL, you know I'm putting that burden on him.
Seriously though, I don't think he improves our starting line up, of course logic tells us that our only winger is our best winger, so sure he improves the squad.

Reina

Johnson Carra Agger Aurelio

Lucas Gerrard

Meireles
Kuyt Suarez
Carroll

This is IMO our best line up if everyone is fit. Don't see where Downing will fit unless you take out our £35 Million striker, move Suarez to the right and place Downing on the left.
Some say that he's being signed to provide crosses for Carroll. Defeats the purpose if he's out.
 
The keane example is wrong, he was a 20m signing when we had gerrard and Torres playing up front and we were desparate for width. If we spent 20m, that may be overspending but at least we'd know he'd walk into our 11 and play pretty much every game.
 
Modo, you're pretty much the only Liverpool fan in the world who doesn't think we need, or have space in the side for a left winger.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=44931.msg1359155#msg1359155 date=1309719503]
Modo, you're pretty much the only Liverpool fan in the world who doesn't think we need, or have space in the side for a left winger.
[/quote]

That's not it, Jon.

He does, he just thinks that 20 million should get you better than Downing. Unfortunately too many people think we arent fit for players of top quality and that we need to compete with Preston North End.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=44931.msg1359155#msg1359155 date=1309719503]
Modo, you're pretty much the only Liverpool fan in the world who doesn't think we need, or have space in the side for a left winger.
[/quote]
Sorry if I wasnt clear.
I was making a point about Downing specifically. I'm all for getting a winger.
 
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=44931.msg1359156#msg1359156 date=1309719994]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=44931.msg1359155#msg1359155 date=1309719503]
Modo, you're pretty much the only Liverpool fan in the world who doesn't think we need, or have space in the side for a left winger.
[/quote]

That's not it, Jon.

He does, he just thinks that 20 million should get you better than Downing. Unfortunately too many people think we arent fit for players of top quality and that we need to compete with Preston North End.
[/quote]

I don't think that's the case at all Avvy. There's people just as blinkered in reckoning that some much sought after players in Europe should be top of the agenda, despite the fact that there are other clubs with more on offer in the hunt. I'm not saying we shouldn't be in for these players, but I'm confident enough in the management that we've enquired about these players and that Downing is rightly considered a good buy for all the right reasons.

I've said it before, without European football we should be aiming for challenging for the title, that's ambition, and by going for players like Downing we know they'll settle straight into the side and provide what we're missing. We could well have another Suarez earmarked, I just don't see the reason for this snobbish attitude towards Downing. He's proven himself year in, year out and seems to get better each season. He's at the peak of his game, is experienced, gives his all and as I said, the end product is already proven in what he's achieved over the last couple of seasons. He might not be the glittery signing most people are looking for, but he ticks all the right boxes and, like I said, we don't know what the rest of the window holds.
 
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=44931.msg1359156#msg1359156 date=1309719994]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=44931.msg1359155#msg1359155 date=1309719503]
Modo, you're pretty much the only Liverpool fan in the world who doesn't think we need, or have space in the side for a left winger.
[/quote]

That's not it, Jon.

He does, he just thinks that 20 million should get you better than Downing. Unfortunately too many people think we arent fit for players of top quality and that we need to compete with Preston North End.
[/quote]
Pretty much yeah but why did you have to mention Preston. 😉
Now they're gonna make it look like I think the players we're getting are Championship players.
Wait...
McAdam - Blackpool
Dann - Birmingham
Oh shit... 😉
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=44931.msg1359168#msg1359168 date=1309720598]
What's this "McAdam" bollocks all about anyway?
[/quote]

He moves as though he's running through tar ?
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=44931.msg1359168#msg1359168 date=1309720598]
What's this "McAdam" bollocks all about anyway?
[/quote]
Sorry if it offends you, I'll stop when he joins.
McDonalds (fat) + Scottish + Adam = McAdam

It's a less funny version of Lurch, Brains, Anti-Brasilian etc, but not as derogatory IMO.
 
I think McAdam's a close relative of that other guy Adams whom one or two still burble on about.

The worst thing about signing Adam, if it happens, will be the way his name brings out the David Pleat in some people.
 
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