David Beckham

[keniget]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36448.msg962863#msg962863 date=1255592079]
I think in some ways the celebrity stuff has actually detracted from his abilities as a footballer. It's always difficult to say what a 'great' is; certainly Beckham has never had anything like the range or instinctive genius of a Cruyff or a Maradona or a Zidane, and surely no one would claim otherwise.
[/quote]

I think there is no qeustion that it has, well that and his move to LA Galaxy, which was a really horrible decision and I'd be quite surprised if he doesn't regret it now.

To his credit though, you'd have to say that he never let it go to his head on the pitch. His attitude, work ethic and commitment to the team was exemplary - Capello found that out at Real Madrid.

The term 'great' is reserved for the likes of Zidane though.

 

[gkmacca]

Like Roberto Carlos, he was wildly overrated for his dead ball skills - both scored a few great goals which obscured the huge number of occasions when they ballooned the ball wide or high. Beckham monopolised all dead ball situations for England when he was captain, and wasted far too many of them when the likes of Gerrard, Lampard and others were obliged to stand aside and watch.

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=36448.msg962895#msg962895 date=1255595019]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36448.msg962863#msg962863 date=1255592079]
I think in some ways the celebrity stuff has actually detracted from his abilities as a footballer. It's always difficult to say what a 'great' is; certainly Beckham has never had anything like the range or instinctive genius of a Cruyff or a Maradona or a Zidane, and surely no one would claim otherwise.
[/quote]

I think there is no qeustion that it has, well that and his move to LA Galaxy, which was a really horrible decision and I'd be quite surprised if he doesn't regret it now.

To his credit though, you'd have to say that he never let it go to his head on the pitch. His attitude, work ethic and commitment to the team was exemplary - Capello found that out at Real Madrid.

The term 'great' is reserved for the likes of Zidane though.
[/quote]

I suppose so, but didn't you ask earlier whether Beckham would get in a World XI? If you wanted to pick a team of the greatest ever talents, the answer would obviously be no. But if you were actually trying to win a football match (however hypothetically), I'd be very tempted to have him (at his peak) in that RW slot above more obviously talented players like Messi, just because he created such a ridiculous number of chances. The fact that he couldn't beat his defender is irrelevant - because he never needed to.

 

[dossena]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36448.msg962931#msg962931 date=1255597817]
Like Roberto Carlos, he was wildly overrated for his dead ball skills - both scored a few great goals which obscured the huge number of occasions when they ballooned the ball wide or high. Beckham monopolised all dead ball situations for England when he was captain, and wasted far too many of them when the likes of Gerrard, Lampard and others were obliged to stand aside and watch.
[/quote]
Let's be fair here.. He's a much better dead ball taker than R. Carlos, Gerrard, Lampard, and others.

His indirect free-kicks are even better than the direct ones.

 

[gkmacca]

[quote author=dossena link=topic=36448.msg962935#msg962935 date=1255597977]
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36448.msg962931#msg962931 date=1255597817]
Like Roberto Carlos, he was wildly overrated for his dead ball skills - both scored a few great goals which obscured the huge number of occasions when they ballooned the ball wide or high. Beckham monopolised all dead ball situations for England when he was captain, and wasted far too many of them when the likes of Gerrard, Lampard and others were obliged to stand aside and watch.
[/quote]
Let's be fair here.. He's a much better dead ball taker than R. Carlos, Gerrard, Lampard, and others.

His indirect free-kicks are even better than the direct ones.
[/quote]

Sorry, we'll have to disagree. I don't think he IS better than them. He's a better crosser of the ball, but I'd rather have Gerrard take a free kick any day.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36448.msg962933#msg962933 date=1255597854]
I suppose so, but didn't you ask earlier whether Beckham would get in a World XI? If you wanted to pick a team of the greatest ever talents, the answer would obviously be no. But if you were actually trying to win a football match (however hypothetically), I'd be very tempted to have him (at his peak) in that RW slot above more obviously talented players like Messi, just because he created such a ridiculous number of chances. The fact that he couldn't beat his defender is irrelevant - because he never needed to.
[/quote]

Heh, are you trying to imply that I'm the type that'd shoe-horn eight strikers into my fantasy XI?

Anyways, if you'd have him in, fair enough. My hypothetical World XI would beat yours.

 

[Fox]

DB is a great player of his generation, he was world class and a real professional example to young footy players. He was part of the greastest club sides you will have ever seen with the treble squad.

No he is not the greatest RW ever ETC ETC but his passing, ball control and passion for the game is up there with the best of his generation.

I am just always amazed at how popular he is, even skinheads at Wembley last night were on their feet cheering when he was warming up.

Has there ever been a player so popular in this country?

He has to go to the WC as cover for Lennon, SWP should not go IMO.

He offers quality of delivery when things are not going to plan with the all out pace attack.

Would he be so popular if he looked like Peter Beardsley, NO but he is a great player IMO

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=36448.msg962942#msg962942 date=1255598477]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36448.msg962933#msg962933 date=1255597854]
I suppose so, but didn't you ask earlier whether Beckham would get in a World XI? If you wanted to pick a team of the greatest ever talents, the answer would obviously be no. But if you were actually trying to win a football match (however hypothetically), I'd be very tempted to have him (at his peak) in that RW slot above more obviously talented players like Messi, just because he created such a ridiculous number of chances. The fact that he couldn't beat his defender is irrelevant - because he never needed to.
[/quote]

Heh, are you trying to imply that I'm the type that'd shoe-horn eight strikers into my fantasy XI?

Anyways, if you'd have him in, fair enough. My hypothetical World XI would beat yours.
[/quote]Haha thats as close as ive ever seen to a 'my dads bigger than your dad' post.

 

[gkmacca]

[quote author=Fox link=topic=36448.msg962976#msg962976 date=1255602252]
He was part of the greastest club sides you will have ever seen with the treble squad.


[/quote]

Eh??

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36448.msg962977#msg962977 date=1255602290]Haha thats as close as ive ever seen to a 'my dads bigger than your dad' post.
[/quote]

Heh I know. I was going to write that in the next one, but Bunnyman disappeared.

 

[TheBunnyman]

I vanished temporarily because I was scared of your team's amazing stepover ability, Keni.

For the record, your team would dominate possession, do lots of lovely, fancy tricks, mesmerize the crowd with their glorious interpassing on the edge of the box, then get tackled or intercepted and sliced in half on the counterattack, the tippy-tappy bellends.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36448.msg962997#msg962997 date=1255604853]
I vanished temporarily because I was scared of your team's amazing stepover ability, Keni.

For the record, your team would dominate possession, do lots of lovely, fancy tricks, mesmerize the crowd with their glorious interpassing on the edge of the box, then get tackled or intercepted and sliced in half on the counterattack, the tippy-tappy bellends.

[/quote]Hahaha

 

[keniget]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36448.msg962997#msg962997 date=1255604853]
I vanished temporarily because I was scared of your team's amazing stepover ability, Keni.

For the record, your team would dominate possession, do lots of lovely, fancy tricks, mesmerize the crowd with their glorious interpassing on the edge of the box, then get tackled or intercepted and sliced in half on the counterattack, the tippy-tappy bellends.
[/quote]

And so you should be. My tippy-tappy bellends would prance around your poor workmanlike team gleefully, almost unwilling to put you out of your misery... almost. Still, the commentators would commend your dogged determination, passion and hey, for giving it a jolly good go.

 

[dossena]

I'm sure you're gonna share like at least 6 players.

 

[Atlas]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36448.msg962931#msg962931 date=1255597817]
Like Roberto Carlos, he was wildly overrated for his dead ball skills - both scored a few great goals which obscured the huge number of occasions when they ballooned the ball wide or high. Beckham monopolised all dead ball situations for England when he was captain, and wasted far too many of them when the likes of Gerrard, Lampard and others were obliged to stand aside and watch.
[/quote]

Beckham is a million times better at free kicks than flippin Carlos. Beckham scored regularily from frree kicks, Carlos scored one great free kick and then decided he would take them all (kinda like Riise, I only remember him scoring one against Leverkusen after that).
Beckham had great ability at putting the ball where he wanted it, and if you can do that as regularily as DB did you are at the top of your game.
He was a decent tackler, a fantastic passer and he did have game intelligence, early in his career he was petulent but he matured over the years and it is a little harsh Oncy to blame him for the penalty ( I assume you mean against Portugal) he did score the one against Argentina and the Greece goal (although that does kinda go against my earlier argument of he was a great free kick taker, cos he missed loads before finally scoring).

Was he part of the greats? for me Like Keni that tag is reserved for the likes of Zidane

 

[Oncy]

Fuck it i'll give it a bash.
Schmeical
Maldini
Canavaro
Nesta
Cafu
Zidane
Vieira
Gerrard
Ronaldo
Ronaldo
Henry.

Bench-Buffon, Totti, Raul, Keane, Giggs, Figo, Hierro.

 

[Fox]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36448.msg962980#msg962980 date=1255602671]
[quote author=Fox link=topic=36448.msg962976#msg962976 date=1255602252]
He was part of the greastest club sides you will have ever seen with the treble squad.


[/quote]

Eh??
[/quote]

oops, one of the greatest I meant to say, not the greatest.

fucking keyboard

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36448.msg963041#msg963041 date=1255608088]
Fuck it i'll give it a bash.
Schmeical
Maldini
Canavaro
Nesta
Cafu
Zidane
Vieira
Gerrard
Ronaldo
Ronaldo
Henry.

Bench-Buffon, Totti, Raul, Keane, Giggs, Figo, Hierro.
[/quote]

Playing ZZ on the wing, or a 433?


OK, here's mine (bearing in mind I've now got to include Beckham):


Schmeichel

Gerrard - Beckenbauer - Baresi - Maldini

Beckham - Rijkaard - Maradona - Barnes

Torres - Zidane

 

[dossena]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36448.msg963041#msg963041 date=1255608088]
Fuck it i'll give it a bash.
Schmeical
Maldini
Canavaro
Nesta
Cafu
Zidane
Vieira
Gerrard
Ronaldo
Ronaldo
Henry.

Bench-Buffon, Totti, Raul, Keane, Giggs, Figo, Hierro.
[/quote]
Where is the balance? I can make a team without your players and still beat them.

-----------------------Kahn--------------------
Thuram----Sammer-----Stam----Lizarazu
---------------Essien----Redondo------------
Messi---------------Rivaldo----------Barnes
----------------------Torres-------------------

Bench: Casillas, Rio, Scholes, Ruud, Fowler

 

[dossena]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36448.msg963069#msg963069 date=1255609593]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36448.msg963041#msg963041 date=1255608088]
Fuck it i'll give it a bash.
Schmeical
Maldini
Canavaro
Nesta
Cafu
Zidane
Vieira
Gerrard
Ronaldo
Ronaldo
Henry.

Bench-Buffon, Totti, Raul, Keane, Giggs, Figo, Hierro.
[/quote]

Playing ZZ on the wing, or a 433?


OK, here's mine (bearing in mind I've now got to include Beckham):


Schmeichel

Gerrard - Beckenbauer - Baresi - Maldini

Beckham - Rijkaard - Maradona - Barnes

Torres - Zidane


[/quote]
That's cheating.

You're not that old to have seen Beckenbauer play the game are you? Keep it recent please, for us young uns imagination.

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=dossena link=topic=36448.msg963071#msg963071 date=1255609760]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36448.msg963069#msg963069 date=1255609593]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36448.msg963041#msg963041 date=1255608088]
Fuck it i'll give it a bash.
Schmeical
Maldini
Canavaro
Nesta
Cafu
Zidane
Vieira
Gerrard
Ronaldo
Ronaldo
Henry.

Bench-Buffon, Totti, Raul, Keane, Giggs, Figo, Hierro.
[/quote]

Playing ZZ on the wing, or a 433?


OK, here's mine (bearing in mind I've now got to include Beckham):


Schmeichel

Gerrard - Beckenbauer - Baresi - Maldini

Beckham - Rijkaard - Maradona - Barnes

Torres - Zidane


[/quote]
That's cheating.

You're not that old to have seen Beckenbauer play the game are you? Keep it recent please, for us young uns imagination.
[/quote]

I have vague memories of him playing when I was a kid, but you can replace him with Hansen if you like. Basically one silky CB to distribute the ball and carry it upfield, and one dirty tough-as-nails hard-tackling bastard to make sure NOTHING gets past them.

 

[Oncy]

I thought it was from the last 15 years?
And yes Zidane played from the left for Madrid.

 

[gkmacca]

[quote author=Asim link=topic=36448.msg963035#msg963035 date=1255607833]

Beckham is a million times better at free kicks than flippin Carlos.

[/quote]

Who said he wasn't? I was talking about players whose reputations as 'dead ball specialists' obscured their relatively poor rate of success. Beckham is much better than Carlos, but the idea he's incredibly accurate is a wild exaggeration. Take that Greece game at Anfield - he wasted a depressing number of chances before he scored at the end. Talk about getting your eye in! On several occasions the kick would have better suited other players in the team, but he hogged them all. When you do that you'll score eventually, but a coolly logical analysis of his performances would surely result in the conclusion that he should score far more often from them than he actually does.

 

[dossena]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36448.msg963079#msg963079 date=1255610505]
[quote author=Asim link=topic=36448.msg963035#msg963035 date=1255607833]

Beckham is a million times better at free kicks than flippin Carlos.

[/quote]

Who said he wasn't? I was talking about players whose reputations as 'dead ball specialists' obscured their relatively poor rate of success. Beckham is much better than Carlos, but the idea he's incredibly accurate is a wild exaggeration. Take that Greece game at Anfield - he wasted a depressing number of chances before he scored at the end. Talk about getting your eye in! On several occasions the kick would have better suited other players in the team, but he hogged them all. When you do that you'll score eventually, but a coolly logical analysis of his performances would surely result in the conclusion that he should score far more often from them than he actually does.
[/quote]
But Macca, he WAS the best free-kick taker in the team. Thus, he took all of the dead balls.

Of course he misses more than he scores. Tell me someone who doesn't though.

 

[gkmacca]

Sorry, but that's wrong. He took all the free kicks, whether they were right, left or centre. Some suited him, some didn't. What other international team of the era had one person monopolise the free kicks? Brazil didn't, France didn't, Italy didn't, Germany didn't. It was a ridiculous situation that only Sven would have tolerated.

 

[themn]

*ahem* the Greece match was at Old Trafford.

 

[keniget]

Maradona in midfield. Pffft!

 

[dossena]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36448.msg963089#msg963089 date=1255611563]
Sorry, but that's wrong. He took all the free kicks, whether they were right, left or centre. Some suited him, some didn't. What other international team of the era had one person monopolise the free kicks? Brazil didn't, France didn't, Italy didn't, Germany didn't. It was a ridiculous situation that only Sven would have tolerated.
[/quote]
I think we have to agree to disagree on this.

I would want the best free kick taker to take most/all of the dead balls, not unlike NFL in that sense.

 

[gkmacca]

So would I. That's why I was happy when Alonso took some for us, Gerrard took others, Aurelio took others, depending on the position. I still say you're pointlessly overhyping Beckham.

 

[dsouthy]

Whilst I am not denying Beckham has exceptional dead ball and crossing skills as well as his determination on the football pitch, I still believe he is the most overrated player of this generation.

As its already been mentioned people (retards) see him as one of the greats because of who he is not because of his ability. Its the same reason why he won goal of the decade for that lob on half way line (how many times did Alonso do it?) and for getting MOM last night (I admit I didnt watch the game but I read the reports and by all accounts Crouch should have got it).

He is a marketing mans dream; got the looks, got the pop star wife (who I think is a fucking bint), money and england captain of the national sport. He is the ultimate of what the average person in society aspires to be - and the public adore him for it.

And he takes full advantage of it. Develop and improve the profile of MLS? Bollocks! It appears that he set his target on being the the biggest icon in the world (which you could say he has achieved) instead of best footballer.

What has he really done for England? He's been captain of the team were we had the potential to win something (not to mention that red card) but its been a generation synonymous with glamour and underperformance.

Personably I sometimes associate the bollocks surrounding Beckham with the side if football I detest the most – money and power. I prefer it when players do their talking on the football pitch.

Give me someone like Paul Scholes any day.