Collective Fatigue

[jan]

Apart from Martinelli, are any of those actually any good? Alvarez had a couple of decent world cup games. Almiron has had 10 good games in 5 years. I haven't seen any of the others kick a ball.

Yeah there aren't many successful players who came to this league straight from South America, are they?
Almiron was signed from the MLS and was a joke punchline for a couple of years. Alvarez is probably good but wasted playing second fiddle to Haaland.
At the moment, the obvious successes are Martinelli and Jesus, while Brighton have done well recently with Mac Allister and Caicedo. Anyone else?

 

[peekay]

Whether they turn out to be greats, distinctly average or complete flops wasn't really where I was getting at.

Why aren't we actively scouting on that side of the world? The biggest talents usually lie there.....the 3 greatest ever to grace a football pitch have come from there.

Look at where all our U21 players are being signed from......the likes of Fulham Aberdeen and Celtic.

I think you are overrating Arthur Melo a bit there.

 

[binomial]

Can't think of too many prem clubs that've signed players straight from south america.....they've usually snapped them up when they've spent a few years in Spain, Portugal or Ukraine.

Only few I can think of are Lucas Leiva, Diego Forlan, Nolberto Solano and Carlos Tevez.

Think Gilberto Silva was another.

 

[Frogfish]

Whether they turn out to be greats, distinctly average or complete flops wasn't really where I was getting at.

Why aren't we actively scouting on that side of the world? The biggest talents usually lie there.....the 3 greatest ever to grace a football pitch have come from there.

Look at where all our U21 players are being signed from......the likes of Fulham Aberdeen and Celtic.

It is actually the whole point though. We have brought in (or through) youngsters that are damn bloody good - Kelleher, Konate, Carvalho, Elliott, Ramsay, Doak, Jones, Gordon (or have you conveniently forgotten these as contrary to the point of your rant) and also bringing through high quality youngsters via the U21s (Bajcetic, Koumetio, Williams, Frauendorf, Clark,Van den Berg & Morton).

However they need time and are not going to arrest our decline (if that's what it is) within 6-12 months of arriving here. We are not a club that buys 20 prospects and hopes 3-4 turn out to be something other than a waste of time or sale fodder. If we did you'd be up in arms about that too.

 

[Frogfish]

Apart from Martinelli, are any of those actually any good? Alvarez had a couple of decent world cup games. Almiron has had 10 good games in 5 years. I haven't seen any of the others kick a ball.

Haha yeah I was going to say the same - he's just naming any young player just for the sake of it.

 

[King Binny]

As I said in a previous post, what Brighton is doing is impressive. I am also not saying Brighton is just hovering up players. There definitely is strategic scouting there. But at the same time, there is also safety in numbers aspect to their model, like in every model. The way they do business is very impressive but does not translate to how we do transfers.

There has been an undercurrent of "If Brighton can buy Caicedo, why can't we?" from certain posters in SCM. Well, there are reasons for it. We don't operate the same way as Brighton. Given our transfer budget is so limited, we don't have a right-back back up, we can't afford to spend 10 million plus on players who will deliver after 3 years.

I have been critical of the way we do transfers for quite some time. I have been pointing to the squad age profile graph you have been posting for the last three years. I love Thiago as a player, but to this day, I don't understand why we tore up the process, and the type of players we focused on - youngish, undervalued, European and PL experience, ready to explode within 6 months. We seem to have lost the ability to make out of the box signings like Robertson, and Gini and are now duking it out for obvious signings.

We don't need to look at Brighton. People are ready to pay homage to Newcastle because of one good signing and one good season. I like Bruno Guimares too, but let us get some perspective here. We had a brilliant model which worked for us. It delivered everything. Let us go back to that rather than pining for Newcastle or Brighton or Arsenal.

Yup, different type of clubs (size, culture, expectations wise etc.). The frustrating thing is our passiveness in recent seasons/transfer windows. Taking a bit more calculated risk and initiative in the transfer market would be nice. Before Elliot and Carvalho, the last time we brought in young players with genuine chance of making it to the first team in the near future (i.e. not those meant for the reserves first) seem to be 15/16 season when we signed Grujic and Gomez. The appointment for Ward's successor - if there's one is going to be important. Hopefully it doesn't get delayed because of any uncertainty over ownership issues.

 

[binomial]

It is actually the whole point though. We have brought in (or through) youngsters that are damn bloody good - Kelleher, Konate, Carvalho, Elliott, Ramsay, Doak, Jones, Gordon (or have you conveniently forgotten these as contrary to the point of your rant) and also bringing through high quality youngsters via the U21s (Bajcetic, Koumetio, Williams, Frauendorf, Clark,Van den Berg & Morton).

However they need time and are not going to arrest our decline (if that's what it is) within 6-12 months of arriving here. We are not a club that buys 20 prospects and hopes 3-4 turn out to be something other than a waste of time or sale fodder. If we did you'd be up in arms about that too.

Are those players what you call "damn good high quality" players yeah?

Ibou aside who had years of first team experience in 1 of the top leagues in the world, the rest are mostly championship standard players.....at best.

There is some hope for Ramsay Carvalho Doak & Bajcetic but I feel these will be another Flanagan Ojo Chirivella & Ibe....do well when needed but ultimately fall short of what is required to be at a club like Liverpool.

I'm yet to be really wowed. Elliott doesn't excite me, Jones has never excited me.

 

[Frogfish]

Are those players what you call "damn good high quality" players yeah?

Ibou aside who had years of first team experience in 1 of the top leagues in the world, the rest are mostly championship standard players.....at best.

There is some hope for Ramsay Carvalho Doak & Bajcetic but I feel these will be another Flanagan Ojo Chirivella & Ibe....do well when needed but ultimately fall short of what is required to be at a club like Liverpool.

I'm yet to be really wowed. Elliott doesn't excite me, Jones has never excited me.

With the exception of Martinelli no-one else stands out on YOUR list as being that much better (but certainly older - so those above have more than enough time to surpass them in prowess).

No one really gives a monkey's what you 'feel' will become of them (nor of my opinion). Time will be the real test but clearly many of them will be far above Championship level - even if they turn out not to be viable players for us. That wasn't the point - I was comparing them to your list and your claims.

 

[binomial]

With the exception of Martinelli no-one else stands out on YOUR list as being that much better (but certainly older - so those above have more than enough time to surpass them in prowess).

No one really gives a monkey's what you 'feel' will become of them (nor of my opinion). Time will be the real test but clearly many of them will be far above Championship level - even if they turn out not to be viable players for us. That wasn't the point - I was comparing them to your list and your claims.

Again the list was just to show the players Prem clubs have signed from South America recently.....forget I even listed any names, half of them haven't even kicked a ball in the Prem so how are you comparing?

We've not signed any, so what are our scouts doing?

 

[peekay]

Taking a bit more calculated risk and initiative in the transfer market would be nice.

I am 100% with you on that. We used to be bold and innovative in the transfer market. Now we seem very risk averse and our transfer targets are frankly boring and obvious.

 

[Frogfish]

Again the list was just to show the players Prem clubs have signed from South America recently.....forget I even listed any names, half of them haven't even kicked a ball in the Prem so how are you comparing?

We've not signed any, so what are our scouts doing?

Because you're whinging about other clubs having great scouting networks by signing as yet totally unproven (or average to good but not LFC 1st team worthy) players !

 

[binomial]

Because you're whinging about other clubs having great scouting networks by signing as yet totally unproven (or average to good but not LFC 1st team worthy) players !

Wasn’t even whining, simply asking why we have to go back to Coutinho 10 years ago for our last successful u21 player we signed and even he was signed from Europe.

 

[King Binny]

 

[binomial]

Was only few days ago you said "squad's all good" Klopp, so what's changed?

 

[RedStar]

Was only few days ago you said "squad's all good" Klopp, so what's changed?

Klopp seems to say the squad is great whenever we can actually sign players, gets arsey when asked about it and says shit like "who should I sign? you tell me". Then when the window closes he notices some flaw that he can no longer address because his hands are tied now that the window has closed.

Funny that

 

[bluebell]

Was only few days ago you said "squad's all good" Klopp, so what's changed?

Didn't he say "all is good in the squad" not "all is good with the squad"?
He will have the summer to fix the squad and hopefully some money.

 

[localny]

I actually thought we were just very unlucky for the first two goals on Sat. And the performance in the second half was very good. Lots of chances created.

Makes me want to not "panic" here. Clearly there's a problem, but it may not be not as bad as we think.

 

[Farkmaster]

What? The two goals feature everyone involved being indecisive, timid, and incompetent. They feature both collective and individual failures.

One thing that I've noticed all fucking season is how weak we are at preventing crosses. We simply don't get out to the ball. If you keep letting the opposition spin that wheel, it isn't going to work at the best of times.

 

[binomial]

Didn't he say "all is good in the squad" not "all is good with the squad"?
He will have the summer to fix the squad and hopefully some money.

Jurgen Klopp announces Liverpool will not sign any other player in January: “Nothing will happen in this transfer window, not at all”. #LFC “It's all good with this squad”, Klopp added.

He may not have meant for it to come across as literal as that.

 

[Frogfish]

Klopp seems to say the squad is great whenever we can actually sign players, gets arsey when asked about it and says shit like "who should I sign? you tell me". Then when the window closes he notices some flaw that he can no longer address because his hands are tied now that the window has closed.

Funny that

It doesn't need a genius to work out that he's obviously protecting the players he does have, just in case any potential transfers don't work out or that the players we want won't be bought until the Summer or that there simply isn't the money to buy the players he wants.
You don't kick a man when he's down. I don't get why people don't get this - do they expect the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Great man management that would be.