Agger is back from injury, but probably not match-fit. Zorba's looked pretty solid so far, but is still basically unproven. And the Carra-Skrtel combination has looked consistently dodgy all season. So should we hope they finally sort it out between them or change it round? Whoever we pick has got to be good - because they'll be facing probably the best centre-forward pairing in the league.
Centre-back pairing versus Chelsea
- Thread starter TheBunnyman
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I think alot of the issues are down to the fullbacks, and I know I keep making this point, but both are getting caught out of position and neither are tucking inside to compress the space when needed (like Arbeloa and Finnan used to do).
I know Carra and Skrtel have been erratic but I don't see the point in changing it for a game as massive as this, when the options are an unproven 30 year old and Agger, who's played half a reserve game in however long.
I know Carra and Skrtel have been erratic but I don't see the point in changing it for a game as massive as this, when the options are an unproven 30 year old and Agger, who's played half a reserve game in however long.
[quote author=dossena link=topic=36206.msg955155#msg955155 date=1254386917]
Carra Agger, cos Carra Skrtel are a horrible pairing, and Carra should not be dropped.
[/quote]
That's just mental. Agger will be rusty after months on the sidelines. Whatever reservations there are about Carra and Skrtel, it's one that's to be sorted on another day, not ahead of the game against the (at present) best side in the Premiership.
Carra Agger, cos Carra Skrtel are a horrible pairing, and Carra should not be dropped.
[/quote]
That's just mental. Agger will be rusty after months on the sidelines. Whatever reservations there are about Carra and Skrtel, it's one that's to be sorted on another day, not ahead of the game against the (at present) best side in the Premiership.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36206.msg955158#msg955158 date=1254387074]
[quote author=dossena link=topic=36206.msg955155#msg955155 date=1254386917]
Carra Agger, cos Carra Skrtel are a horrible pairing, and Carra should not be dropped.
[/quote]
That's just mental. Agger will be rusty after months on the sidelines. Whatever reservations there are about Carra and Skrtel, it's one that's to be sorted on another day, not ahead of the game against the (at present) best side in the Premiership.
[/quote]
I'd rather gamble on Agger, rather than putting out a pairing that has been disastrous since day 1 against the (at present) best side in the Premiership..
Opinion, arsehole and all that..
[quote author=dossena link=topic=36206.msg955155#msg955155 date=1254386917]
Carra Agger, cos Carra Skrtel are a horrible pairing, and Carra should not be dropped.
[/quote]
That's just mental. Agger will be rusty after months on the sidelines. Whatever reservations there are about Carra and Skrtel, it's one that's to be sorted on another day, not ahead of the game against the (at present) best side in the Premiership.
[/quote]
I'd rather gamble on Agger, rather than putting out a pairing that has been disastrous since day 1 against the (at present) best side in the Premiership..
Opinion, arsehole and all that..
S
Squiggles
Guest
I'm kind of open to all ideas to be honest. The Carragher, Skrtel partnership gives me no faith whatsoever at the present time.
It's difficult to say being a fan about what the best partnership will be, simply because we're not aware of the the fitness of Agger - some players can slot straight back in and perform impressively without the need for 'bedding in' so I wouldn't dismiss it entirely; however the memory of Drogba out-muscling Agger a few years ago still lingers...
As for the Greek well, surely this is why we bought him. I've said it before but he's done little wrong so far and looks strong enough to be able to handle the likes of Drogba. He's also hugely impressive in the air which would help cut out the supply. But again, we've seen little of him and Benitez will be more aware of his talents, or lack of, than ourselves.
I don't think it's a as clear-cut as people are making but that said, I still expect to see Carragher and Skrtel line up on Sunday. I'm not at all confident about the fixture for I can see Chelsea ruthlessly exploiting our frailties. The one reassuring thought is there defence was an absolute mess against Wigan and now have to face the greatest striker in world football.
There's going to be goals, that's for sure.
It's difficult to say being a fan about what the best partnership will be, simply because we're not aware of the the fitness of Agger - some players can slot straight back in and perform impressively without the need for 'bedding in' so I wouldn't dismiss it entirely; however the memory of Drogba out-muscling Agger a few years ago still lingers...
As for the Greek well, surely this is why we bought him. I've said it before but he's done little wrong so far and looks strong enough to be able to handle the likes of Drogba. He's also hugely impressive in the air which would help cut out the supply. But again, we've seen little of him and Benitez will be more aware of his talents, or lack of, than ourselves.
I don't think it's a as clear-cut as people are making but that said, I still expect to see Carragher and Skrtel line up on Sunday. I'm not at all confident about the fixture for I can see Chelsea ruthlessly exploiting our frailties. The one reassuring thought is there defence was an absolute mess against Wigan and now have to face the greatest striker in world football.
There's going to be goals, that's for sure.
If he picks Carra and Skittles he must play Aurelio and Johnson.
[quote author=dossena link=topic=36206.msg955171#msg955171 date=1254387871]
[quote author=Mors link=topic=36206.msg955168#msg955168 date=1254387609]
You can't play Agger when he's not match fit against an in-form Drogba, only a bloody mentalist would advocate that.
[/quote]
I'm a "bloody mentalist" then.
[/quote]
Add me to the list.
[quote author=Mors link=topic=36206.msg955168#msg955168 date=1254387609]
You can't play Agger when he's not match fit against an in-form Drogba, only a bloody mentalist would advocate that.
[/quote]
I'm a "bloody mentalist" then.
[/quote]
Add me to the list.
S
Squiggles
Guest
People are being overly harsh on Dossena.
Sticking with a failing partnership against two of the strongest strikers in the league could be considered equally "mental".
Sticking with a failing partnership against two of the strongest strikers in the league could be considered equally "mental".
carra is a certainty, question is who will be his partner.
has skrtel face drogba before? anyone?
to Mors, nobody can stop an in-form drogba. Despite a fucking, diving cunt, he is the second best striker for BPL.
Torres numero uno!
has skrtel face drogba before? anyone?
to Mors, nobody can stop an in-form drogba. Despite a fucking, diving cunt, he is the second best striker for BPL.
Torres numero uno!
I 'want' agger in the team asap but I personally think the game for him is arsenal. he will be far too rusty for chelsea.
Skrtel and Carragher in the middle for me. Id bring Aurelio in at left back for a bit more composure and big game know how.
Also maybe controversial but id play Gerrard at the heart of midfield for this one. I don't want to see Essien stop him because Lucas and Mascherano can't pick him out with a pass early enough.
Also maybe controversial but id play Gerrard at the heart of midfield for this one. I don't want to see Essien stop him because Lucas and Mascherano can't pick him out with a pass early enough.
[quote author=Whitey85 link=topic=36206.msg955190#msg955190 date=1254388940]
Skrtel and Carragher in the middle for me. Id bring Aurelio in at left back for a bit more composure and big game know how.
Also maybe controversial but id play Gerrard at the heart of midfield for this one. I don't want to see Essien stop him because Lucas and Mascherano can't pick him out with a pass early enough.
[/quote]
if mash is injuried then gerrard will definately play in the center of midfield, giving yossi a chance to improve on his shocking performance midweek.
Skrtel and Carragher in the middle for me. Id bring Aurelio in at left back for a bit more composure and big game know how.
Also maybe controversial but id play Gerrard at the heart of midfield for this one. I don't want to see Essien stop him because Lucas and Mascherano can't pick him out with a pass early enough.
[/quote]
if mash is injuried then gerrard will definately play in the center of midfield, giving yossi a chance to improve on his shocking performance midweek.
Dossena/DB, you just can't lads. He's not ready. If he was fit, then yes, I'd be all for dropping one of the current two. But he's just back from an injury and only has one reserve game under his belt. He really is going to be rusty for a couple of weeks yet.
OR, if we were playing someone like Hull then it might be worth giving him a run out. But not against the monster 🙁
Our defence is just going to have to get their act together for the first time this season for this game I'm afraid.
OR, if we were playing someone like Hull then it might be worth giving him a run out. But not against the monster 🙁
Our defence is just going to have to get their act together for the first time this season for this game I'm afraid.
S
Squiggles
Guest
[quote author=Mors link=topic=36206.msg955208#msg955208 date=1254389515]
Dossena/DB, you just can't lads. He's not ready. If he was fit, then yes, I'd be all for dropping one of the current two. But he's just back from an injury and only has one reserve game under his belt. He really is going to be rusty for a couple of weeks yet.
OR, if we were playing someone like Hull then it might be worth giving him a run out. But not against the monster 🙁
Our defence is just going to have to get their act together for the first time this season for this game I'm afraid.
[/quote]
I think that's right but I have little faith in it suddenly 'clicking'
----------Carra--Skittles
Johnson-----------------Aurelio
Dossena/DB, you just can't lads. He's not ready. If he was fit, then yes, I'd be all for dropping one of the current two. But he's just back from an injury and only has one reserve game under his belt. He really is going to be rusty for a couple of weeks yet.
OR, if we were playing someone like Hull then it might be worth giving him a run out. But not against the monster 🙁
Our defence is just going to have to get their act together for the first time this season for this game I'm afraid.
[/quote]
I think that's right but I have little faith in it suddenly 'clicking'
----------Carra--Skittles
Johnson-----------------Aurelio
[quote author=Mors link=topic=36206.msg955208#msg955208 date=1254389515]
Dossena/DB, you just can't lads. He's not ready. If he was fit, then yes, I'd be all for dropping one of the current two. But he's just back from an injury and only has one reserve game under his belt. He really is going to be rusty for a couple of weeks yet.
OR, if we were playing someone like Hull then it might be worth giving him a run out. But not against the monster 🙁
Our defence is just going to have to get their act together for the first time this season for this game I'm afraid.
[/quote]
I guess it just shows how little confidence I have in our back line at the moment.
Even f*cking hull scored against us. What will Drogba, Anelka, Lampard, Essien etc do.
If we stick with what we have we will need a 500% increase in performance as a partnership from our Cb's.
Can they do it? Yes.
Will they? Very questionable.
We need to score 1st.
Dossena/DB, you just can't lads. He's not ready. If he was fit, then yes, I'd be all for dropping one of the current two. But he's just back from an injury and only has one reserve game under his belt. He really is going to be rusty for a couple of weeks yet.
OR, if we were playing someone like Hull then it might be worth giving him a run out. But not against the monster 🙁
Our defence is just going to have to get their act together for the first time this season for this game I'm afraid.
[/quote]
I guess it just shows how little confidence I have in our back line at the moment.
Even f*cking hull scored against us. What will Drogba, Anelka, Lampard, Essien etc do.
If we stick with what we have we will need a 500% increase in performance as a partnership from our Cb's.
Can they do it? Yes.
Will they? Very questionable.
We need to score 1st.
[quote author=Mors link=topic=36206.msg955208#msg955208 date=1254389515]
Dossena/DB, you just can't lads. He's not ready. If he was fit, then yes, I'd be all for dropping one of the current two. But he's just back from an injury and only has one reserve game under his belt. He really is going to be rusty for a couple of weeks yet.
OR, if we were playing someone like Hull then it might be worth giving him a run out. But not against the monster 🙁
Our defence is just going to have to get their act together for the first time this season for this game I'm afraid.
[/quote]
either that or our attackers are going to have to have the game of their lives.
* uncle roy flashback*
Dossena/DB, you just can't lads. He's not ready. If he was fit, then yes, I'd be all for dropping one of the current two. But he's just back from an injury and only has one reserve game under his belt. He really is going to be rusty for a couple of weeks yet.
OR, if we were playing someone like Hull then it might be worth giving him a run out. But not against the monster 🙁
Our defence is just going to have to get their act together for the first time this season for this game I'm afraid.
[/quote]
either that or our attackers are going to have to have the game of their lives.
* uncle roy flashback*
Kelly and Ayala
I think that our current back four are 'capable' of shutting out Chelski, so it's not undoable. And Agger isn't the saviour if they can't, he's no guarantee that we wont conceed if he does play. I've seen Drogba have him over a barrell before.
Rafa will just have to work on them this week and get it sorted out, and play masher to guard them.
And with Torres, Gerrard and Kuyt we're always likely to sneak one.
Rafa will just have to work on them this week and get it sorted out, and play masher to guard them.
And with Torres, Gerrard and Kuyt we're always likely to sneak one.
I hope Skrtel reached his nadir in the game last night when he was beaten and just stood there watching like a schoolboy about to burst into tears. That was horrible. And he still can't seem to stop leaping up with his arms around his opponent - two challenges like that on Sunday and he'll leave the team in the shite.
[quote author=Mors link=topic=36206.msg955222#msg955222 date=1254390275]
I think that our current back four are 'capable' of shutting out Chelski, so it's not undoable. And Agger isn't the saviour if they can't, he's no guarantee that we wont conceed if he does play. I've seen Drogba have him over a barrell before.
Rafa will just have to work on them this week and get it sorted out, and play masher to guard them.
And with Torres, Gerrard and Kuyt we're always likely to sneak one.
[/quote]
our defense was the main reason we went out against chelsea last year. attack wise I though we were brilliant, but it was like everytime chelsea came forwards they scored.
I think that our current back four are 'capable' of shutting out Chelski, so it's not undoable. And Agger isn't the saviour if they can't, he's no guarantee that we wont conceed if he does play. I've seen Drogba have him over a barrell before.
Rafa will just have to work on them this week and get it sorted out, and play masher to guard them.
And with Torres, Gerrard and Kuyt we're always likely to sneak one.
[/quote]
our defense was the main reason we went out against chelsea last year. attack wise I though we were brilliant, but it was like everytime chelsea came forwards they scored.
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36206.msg955224#msg955224 date=1254390425]
I hope Skrtel reached his nadir in the game last night when he was beaten and just stood there watching like a schoolboy about to burst into tears. That was horrible. And he still can't seem to stop leaping up with his arms around his opponent - two challenges like that on Sunday and he'll leave the team in the shite.
[/quote]
I was waiting for him to move, and he just didn't. Sure, he wasn't gonna catch the guy up again, but what if it bounced back out (as it did) and he could have cleared it. It was fucking disguting. Ronaldo-esque.
I hope Skrtel reached his nadir in the game last night when he was beaten and just stood there watching like a schoolboy about to burst into tears. That was horrible. And he still can't seem to stop leaping up with his arms around his opponent - two challenges like that on Sunday and he'll leave the team in the shite.
[/quote]
I was waiting for him to move, and he just didn't. Sure, he wasn't gonna catch the guy up again, but what if it bounced back out (as it did) and he could have cleared it. It was fucking disguting. Ronaldo-esque.
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36206.msg955224#msg955224 date=1254390425]
I hope Skrtel reached his nadir in the game last night when he was beaten and just stood there watching like a schoolboy about to burst into tears. That was horrible. And he still can't seem to stop leaping up with his arms around his opponent - two challenges like that on Sunday and he'll leave the team in the shite.
[/quote]
skrtel doesn't use his brain he uses his power and pace to get him out of trouble, he thought about what he was doing he realise he can get away with running half as much and be twice as effective.
carra is spending too much time trying to do everyone's job and too little time doing his own job.
I hope Skrtel reached his nadir in the game last night when he was beaten and just stood there watching like a schoolboy about to burst into tears. That was horrible. And he still can't seem to stop leaping up with his arms around his opponent - two challenges like that on Sunday and he'll leave the team in the shite.
[/quote]
skrtel doesn't use his brain he uses his power and pace to get him out of trouble, he thought about what he was doing he realise he can get away with running half as much and be twice as effective.
carra is spending too much time trying to do everyone's job and too little time doing his own job.
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36206.msg955214#msg955214 date=1254389717]
[quote author=Mors link=topic=36206.msg955208#msg955208 date=1254389515]
Dossena/DB, you just can't lads. He's not ready. If he was fit, then yes, I'd be all for dropping one of the current two. But he's just back from an injury and only has one reserve game under his belt. He really is going to be rusty for a couple of weeks yet.
OR, if we were playing someone like Hull then it might be worth giving him a run out. But not against the monster 🙁
Our defence is just going to have to get their act together for the first time this season for this game I'm afraid.
[/quote]
I guess it just shows how little confidence I have in our back line at the moment.
Even f*cking hull scored against us. What will Drogba, Anelka, Lampard, Essien etc do.
If we stick with what we have we will need a 500% increase in performance as a partnership from our Cb's.
Can they do it? Yes.
Will they? Very questionable.
We need to score 1st.
[/quote]
The same Hull also scored at Stamford bridge, knocked 3 past us in two games last season and scored 3 at old Trafford last season.
[quote author=Mors link=topic=36206.msg955208#msg955208 date=1254389515]
Dossena/DB, you just can't lads. He's not ready. If he was fit, then yes, I'd be all for dropping one of the current two. But he's just back from an injury and only has one reserve game under his belt. He really is going to be rusty for a couple of weeks yet.
OR, if we were playing someone like Hull then it might be worth giving him a run out. But not against the monster 🙁
Our defence is just going to have to get their act together for the first time this season for this game I'm afraid.
[/quote]
I guess it just shows how little confidence I have in our back line at the moment.
Even f*cking hull scored against us. What will Drogba, Anelka, Lampard, Essien etc do.
If we stick with what we have we will need a 500% increase in performance as a partnership from our Cb's.
Can they do it? Yes.
Will they? Very questionable.
We need to score 1st.
[/quote]
The same Hull also scored at Stamford bridge, knocked 3 past us in two games last season and scored 3 at old Trafford last season.
[quote author=Mors link=topic=36206.msg955208#msg955208 date=1254389515]
Dossena/DB, you just can't lads. He's not ready. If he was fit, then yes, I'd be all for dropping one of the current two. But he's just back from an injury and only has one reserve game under his belt. He really is going to be rusty for a couple of weeks yet.
[/quote]
Exactly. I wouldn't go with Kyrgiakos either because he's far too slow (see Drogba's goal against Spurs I think). Let's hope Skrtel gets his shit together and handles Drogba like he already did in the past.
Dossena/DB, you just can't lads. He's not ready. If he was fit, then yes, I'd be all for dropping one of the current two. But he's just back from an injury and only has one reserve game under his belt. He really is going to be rusty for a couple of weeks yet.
[/quote]
Exactly. I wouldn't go with Kyrgiakos either because he's far too slow (see Drogba's goal against Spurs I think). Let's hope Skrtel gets his shit together and handles Drogba like he already did in the past.
I'm the only one so far who's voted for Carra and Zorba. It would be a risk, but the Fiorentina game just convinced me that Carra and Skrtel is not working at all. Chelsea will have watched that game (and our other matches) and will have figured out ways to exploit our weaknesses. So a change of personnel would be one way of forestalling their tactical preparations.
The other reason I'd favour Zorba over Skrtel is that he's better in the air - and I think Chelsea are going to bombard us. They're always very dangerous at corners and free-kicks, and our vulnerability there is scarily obvious.
Clearly, Rafa will know more than us if this is a viable option because he'll have watched Zorba in training every day. And maybe, when it comes down to it, he's just not good enough. The other downside to this decision would be the psychological effects on Skrtel of being dropped. Then again, if he gets mauled by Drogba and Anelka, he'll be mentally scarred anyway.
Hopefully Mascher will be fit, and can offer some protection to whoever gets picked, but at the moment the 'devil we know' does not inspire me with any confidence at all.
The other reason I'd favour Zorba over Skrtel is that he's better in the air - and I think Chelsea are going to bombard us. They're always very dangerous at corners and free-kicks, and our vulnerability there is scarily obvious.
Clearly, Rafa will know more than us if this is a viable option because he'll have watched Zorba in training every day. And maybe, when it comes down to it, he's just not good enough. The other downside to this decision would be the psychological effects on Skrtel of being dropped. Then again, if he gets mauled by Drogba and Anelka, he'll be mentally scarred anyway.
Hopefully Mascher will be fit, and can offer some protection to whoever gets picked, but at the moment the 'devil we know' does not inspire me with any confidence at all.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36206.msg955225#msg955225 date=1254390482]
[quote author=Mors link=topic=36206.msg955222#msg955222 date=1254390275]
I think that our current back four are 'capable' of shutting out Chelski, so it's not undoable. And Agger isn't the saviour if they can't, he's no guarantee that we wont conceed if he does play. I've seen Drogba have him over a barrell before.
Rafa will just have to work on them this week and get it sorted out, and play masher to guard them.
And with Torres, Gerrard and Kuyt we're always likely to sneak one.
[/quote]
our defense was the main reason we went out against chelsea last year. attack wise I though we were brilliant, but it was like everytime chelsea came forwards they scored.
[/quote]
You keep saying this over and over. In the following match we played Arsenal, Agger started and Skrtel dropped to the bench and hey ho, we conceded four.
[quote author=Mors link=topic=36206.msg955222#msg955222 date=1254390275]
I think that our current back four are 'capable' of shutting out Chelski, so it's not undoable. And Agger isn't the saviour if they can't, he's no guarantee that we wont conceed if he does play. I've seen Drogba have him over a barrell before.
Rafa will just have to work on them this week and get it sorted out, and play masher to guard them.
And with Torres, Gerrard and Kuyt we're always likely to sneak one.
[/quote]
our defense was the main reason we went out against chelsea last year. attack wise I though we were brilliant, but it was like everytime chelsea came forwards they scored.
[/quote]
You keep saying this over and over. In the following match we played Arsenal, Agger started and Skrtel dropped to the bench and hey ho, we conceded four.
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36206.msg955241#msg955241 date=1254391379]
I'm the only one so far who's voted for Carra and Zorba. It would be a risk, but the Fiorentina game just convinced me that Carra and Skrtel is not working at all. Chelsea will have watched that game (and our other matches) and will have figured out ways to exploit our weaknesses. So a change of personnel would be one way of forestalling their tactical preparations.
The other reason I'd favour Zorba over Skrtel is that he's better in the air - and I think Chelsea are going to bombard us. They're always very dangerous at corners and free-kicks, and our vulnerability there is scarily obvious.
Clearly, Rafa will know more than us if this is a viable option because he'll have watched Zorba in training every day. And maybe, when it comes down to it, he's just not good enough. The other downside to this decision would be the psychological effects on Skrtel of being dropped. Then again, if he gets mauled by Drogba and Anelka, he'll be mentally scarred anyway.
Hopefully Mascher will be fit, and can offer some protection to whoever gets picked, but at the moment the 'devil we know' does not inspire me with any confidence at all.
[/quote]
Carra's experienced, proven as one of the best centre backs in Europe, etc.. but you're only as good as your current form. Both he and Skrtel have been iffy this season so I don't get why it's an automatic decision that Skrtel should make way.
Look at the trip to Old Trafford last season. Arbeloa gets injured in the warm up and Hyypia steps in, Carra goes to right back and Skrtel and Hyypia partner each other in the centre and we play a blinder.
I'm not saying it always works out that favourably, but making Skrtel the target of our defensive woes seems well wide of the mark. Carra has looked even more indecisive during setpieces and has been caught under the ball several times, and lets not forget, he's also been given the run around in the past by Drogba too. And as I've said earlier, our fullbacks aren't helping, one of them needs to tuck inside and hold their position when we're under attack.
I'm the only one so far who's voted for Carra and Zorba. It would be a risk, but the Fiorentina game just convinced me that Carra and Skrtel is not working at all. Chelsea will have watched that game (and our other matches) and will have figured out ways to exploit our weaknesses. So a change of personnel would be one way of forestalling their tactical preparations.
The other reason I'd favour Zorba over Skrtel is that he's better in the air - and I think Chelsea are going to bombard us. They're always very dangerous at corners and free-kicks, and our vulnerability there is scarily obvious.
Clearly, Rafa will know more than us if this is a viable option because he'll have watched Zorba in training every day. And maybe, when it comes down to it, he's just not good enough. The other downside to this decision would be the psychological effects on Skrtel of being dropped. Then again, if he gets mauled by Drogba and Anelka, he'll be mentally scarred anyway.
Hopefully Mascher will be fit, and can offer some protection to whoever gets picked, but at the moment the 'devil we know' does not inspire me with any confidence at all.
[/quote]
Carra's experienced, proven as one of the best centre backs in Europe, etc.. but you're only as good as your current form. Both he and Skrtel have been iffy this season so I don't get why it's an automatic decision that Skrtel should make way.
Look at the trip to Old Trafford last season. Arbeloa gets injured in the warm up and Hyypia steps in, Carra goes to right back and Skrtel and Hyypia partner each other in the centre and we play a blinder.
I'm not saying it always works out that favourably, but making Skrtel the target of our defensive woes seems well wide of the mark. Carra has looked even more indecisive during setpieces and has been caught under the ball several times, and lets not forget, he's also been given the run around in the past by Drogba too. And as I've said earlier, our fullbacks aren't helping, one of them needs to tuck inside and hold their position when we're under attack.
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