Carra: Last year was a low but now our time is coming (Long read)
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[quote author=Modo link=topic=44623.msg1302678#msg1302678 date=1300635685]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44623.msg1302633#msg1302633 date=1300634628]
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=44623.msg1302568#msg1302568 date=1300633509]
He isn't a right-back though, so i don't see the issue.
[/quote]
OK
[/quote]
The club should always look to improve and the fact that Carra has played in red for 10 years and is from Liverpool shouldn't factor in any more.
[/quote]
Sorry mate, i don't agree with that bit. One of the reasons i think Spearing did so well today was because he's a scouser born and bred and is fucking desperate to take whatever chances he gets from his boyhood club. If he was playing for another team, i doubt he'd do half as well as he did today for Liverpool under Kenny, and i reckon this still applies to Carra. If you look at the last-ditch tackles he always makes, you don't see anyone else doing them, cause he puts his heart into every fucking challenge.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44623.msg1302633#msg1302633 date=1300634628]
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=44623.msg1302568#msg1302568 date=1300633509]
He isn't a right-back though, so i don't see the issue.
[/quote]
OK
[/quote]
The club should always look to improve and the fact that Carra has played in red for 10 years and is from Liverpool shouldn't factor in any more.
[/quote]
Sorry mate, i don't agree with that bit. One of the reasons i think Spearing did so well today was because he's a scouser born and bred and is fucking desperate to take whatever chances he gets from his boyhood club. If he was playing for another team, i doubt he'd do half as well as he did today for Liverpool under Kenny, and i reckon this still applies to Carra. If you look at the last-ditch tackles he always makes, you don't see anyone else doing them, cause he puts his heart into every fucking challenge.
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=44623.msg1302680#msg1302680 date=1300635737]
What's wrong with that?
"if in doubt, launch it" - Alan Hansen
[/quote]
Plenty. We give away possession of the ball.
The midfield have to move down the pitch to defend a throw in.
It stifles any momentum we've built up.
That's why I admire Barca. They never give the ball.
What's wrong with that?
"if in doubt, launch it" - Alan Hansen
[/quote]
Plenty. We give away possession of the ball.
The midfield have to move down the pitch to defend a throw in.
It stifles any momentum we've built up.
That's why I admire Barca. They never give the ball.
So he should try a Cesc on the edge of his box?
Of course you want to have the best players possible in your team Modo but Carragher isn't even the first defender in line to be replaced let alone the whole team.
The way you are singling him out is well over the top in my opinion
The way you are singling him out is well over the top in my opinion
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44623.msg1302678#msg1302678 date=1300635685]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44623.msg1302633#msg1302633 date=1300634628]
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=44623.msg1302568#msg1302568 date=1300633509]
He isn't a right-back though, so i don't see the issue.
[/quote]
OK
[/quote]
What I'm trying to say is that there are better defenders out there. The club should always look to improve and the fact that Carra has played in red for 10 years and is from Liverpool shouldn't factor in any more. He played on the right against Braga OK. But it didn't stop him from hoofing the ball every time he got the chance. His defending has also been suspect during the past two seasons.
I just hate to see us waste the ball because we have a player at the back that lacks the ball control and passing ability needed to start attacks. Another thing that bothers me with Carra is that he can't play himself out of danger. When he feels that he's being closed down he just clears it.
[/quote]
Couldn't disagree more.
He's not a great footballer but he is an utterly fantastic and committed defender that will die for the team on the pitch. There's 9 other players outfield so to suggest that Carra is in anyway responsible for our team not performing is a joke.
Have you ever wondered why he was hoofing? I think that is a more poignant conundrum; zero movement, width and space in front of him, Agger and Skrtel do the same when there's nothing happening.
Plus I too am a fan of the 'If in doubt, give it some clout' school of thought, its your bread and butter, growing up when playing football and shouldn't be redundant at the professional level, although yeah, without a doubt a degree of technical ability is required meaning hoofing it shouldn't be a given.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44623.msg1302633#msg1302633 date=1300634628]
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=44623.msg1302568#msg1302568 date=1300633509]
He isn't a right-back though, so i don't see the issue.
[/quote]
OK
[/quote]
What I'm trying to say is that there are better defenders out there. The club should always look to improve and the fact that Carra has played in red for 10 years and is from Liverpool shouldn't factor in any more. He played on the right against Braga OK. But it didn't stop him from hoofing the ball every time he got the chance. His defending has also been suspect during the past two seasons.
I just hate to see us waste the ball because we have a player at the back that lacks the ball control and passing ability needed to start attacks. Another thing that bothers me with Carra is that he can't play himself out of danger. When he feels that he's being closed down he just clears it.
[/quote]
Couldn't disagree more.
He's not a great footballer but he is an utterly fantastic and committed defender that will die for the team on the pitch. There's 9 other players outfield so to suggest that Carra is in anyway responsible for our team not performing is a joke.
Have you ever wondered why he was hoofing? I think that is a more poignant conundrum; zero movement, width and space in front of him, Agger and Skrtel do the same when there's nothing happening.
Plus I too am a fan of the 'If in doubt, give it some clout' school of thought, its your bread and butter, growing up when playing football and shouldn't be redundant at the professional level, although yeah, without a doubt a degree of technical ability is required meaning hoofing it shouldn't be a given.
Also, Sami Hyypia "hoofed" it ALL THE TIME, yet no one seemed bothered by it when he did it.
Not sure why it's Carra that gets singled out for it. Maybe it looks prettier when Agger pings it 40 yards and loses it.
Not sure why it's Carra that gets singled out for it. Maybe it looks prettier when Agger pings it 40 yards and loses it.
Sami didn't hoof it all the time. His long passing was a very underrated part of his game. It's not for nothing that he played some games in midfield for Willem II.
Agree otherwise.
Agree otherwise.
Carra was part of that team that came within touching distance of winning the league 2 years ago.
He was no maldini then, same old Carra, it's just a simple fact that the defenders defended and the rest of the team played football and made shit happen.
Playing style, HR et al haven't facilitated that since and i'd wager that Carra is not in the top 20 reasons for us not competing since then.
He was no maldini then, same old Carra, it's just a simple fact that the defenders defended and the rest of the team played football and made shit happen.
Playing style, HR et al haven't facilitated that since and i'd wager that Carra is not in the top 20 reasons for us not competing since then.
[quote author=the count link=topic=44623.msg1302696#msg1302696 date=1300636079]
Of course you want to have the best players possible in your team Modo but Carragher isn't even the first defender in line to be replaced let alone the whole team.
The way you are singling him out is well over the top in my opinion
[/quote]
I'm with you, Carra isn't our first priority. But look at the league table, look at how many goals we've let in. That alone tells me that there's something wrong with the defence.
Buying a good LB helps. But in order for us to sure up the defence next season, I think we need a new CB.
Of course you want to have the best players possible in your team Modo but Carragher isn't even the first defender in line to be replaced let alone the whole team.
The way you are singling him out is well over the top in my opinion
[/quote]
I'm with you, Carra isn't our first priority. But look at the league table, look at how many goals we've let in. That alone tells me that there's something wrong with the defence.
Buying a good LB helps. But in order for us to sure up the defence next season, I think we need a new CB.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44623.msg1302705#msg1302705 date=1300636434]
[quote author=the count link=topic=44623.msg1302696#msg1302696 date=1300636079]
Of course you want to have the best players possible in your team Modo but Carragher isn't even the first defender in line to be replaced let alone the whole team.
The way you are singling him out is well over the top in my opinion
[/quote]
I'm with you, Carra isn't our first priority. But look at the league table, look at how many goals we've let in. That alone tells me that there's something wrong with the defence.
Buying a good LB helps. But in order for us to sure up the defence next season, I think we need a new CB.
[/quote] But not primarily to replace Carragher surely
[quote author=the count link=topic=44623.msg1302696#msg1302696 date=1300636079]
Of course you want to have the best players possible in your team Modo but Carragher isn't even the first defender in line to be replaced let alone the whole team.
The way you are singling him out is well over the top in my opinion
[/quote]
I'm with you, Carra isn't our first priority. But look at the league table, look at how many goals we've let in. That alone tells me that there's something wrong with the defence.
Buying a good LB helps. But in order for us to sure up the defence next season, I think we need a new CB.
[/quote] But not primarily to replace Carragher surely
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=44623.msg1302704#msg1302704 date=1300636361]
Carra was part of that team that came within touching distance of winning the league 2 years ago.
He was no maldini then, same old Carra, it's just a simple fact that the defenders defended and the rest of the team played football and made shit happen.
Playing style, HR et al haven't facilitated that since and i'd wager that Carra is not in the top 20 reasons for us not competing since then.
[/quote]
2 years ago we had a certain Sami Hyypia. And Carra was two years younger.
Carra was part of that team that came within touching distance of winning the league 2 years ago.
He was no maldini then, same old Carra, it's just a simple fact that the defenders defended and the rest of the team played football and made shit happen.
Playing style, HR et al haven't facilitated that since and i'd wager that Carra is not in the top 20 reasons for us not competing since then.
[/quote]
2 years ago we had a certain Sami Hyypia. And Carra was two years younger.
[quote author=the count link=topic=44623.msg1302706#msg1302706 date=1300636528]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44623.msg1302705#msg1302705 date=1300636434]
[quote author=the count link=topic=44623.msg1302696#msg1302696 date=1300636079]
Of course you want to have the best players possible in your team Modo but Carragher isn't even the first defender in line to be replaced let alone the whole team.
The way you are singling him out is well over the top in my opinion
[/quote]
I'm with you, Carra isn't our first priority. But look at the league table, look at how many goals we've let in. That alone tells me that there's something wrong with the defence.
Buying a good LB helps. But in order for us to sure up the defence next season, I think we need a new CB.
[/quote] But not primarily to replace Carragher surely
[/quote]
He's 33 years old. Who else should we look to replace?
Agger is the future. I don't know if it's the injuries that have blinded some of you, 'cause he's highly rated defender.
If we for some reason buy a new CB like Cahill, I'd expect him to start next to Agger when the new season starts.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44623.msg1302705#msg1302705 date=1300636434]
[quote author=the count link=topic=44623.msg1302696#msg1302696 date=1300636079]
Of course you want to have the best players possible in your team Modo but Carragher isn't even the first defender in line to be replaced let alone the whole team.
The way you are singling him out is well over the top in my opinion
[/quote]
I'm with you, Carra isn't our first priority. But look at the league table, look at how many goals we've let in. That alone tells me that there's something wrong with the defence.
Buying a good LB helps. But in order for us to sure up the defence next season, I think we need a new CB.
[/quote] But not primarily to replace Carragher surely
[/quote]
He's 33 years old. Who else should we look to replace?
Agger is the future. I don't know if it's the injuries that have blinded some of you, 'cause he's highly rated defender.
If we for some reason buy a new CB like Cahill, I'd expect him to start next to Agger when the new season starts.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44623.msg1302710#msg1302710 date=1300636906]
[quote author=the count link=topic=44623.msg1302706#msg1302706 date=1300636528]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44623.msg1302705#msg1302705 date=1300636434]
[quote author=the count link=topic=44623.msg1302696#msg1302696 date=1300636079]
Of course you want to have the best players possible in your team Modo but Carragher isn't even the first defender in line to be replaced let alone the whole team.
The way you are singling him out is well over the top in my opinion
[/quote]
I'm with you, Carra isn't our first priority. But look at the league table, look at how many goals we've let in. That alone tells me that there's something wrong with the defence.
Buying a good LB helps. But in order for us to sure up the defence next season, I think we need a new CB.
[/quote] But not primarily to replace Carragher surely
[/quote]
He's 33 years old. Who else should we look to replace?
Agger is the future. I don't know if it's the injuries that have blinded some of you, 'cause he's highly rated defender.
If we for some reason buy a new CB like Cahill, I'd expect him to start next to Agger when the new season starts.
[/quote]
I'd expect Agger to be injured when the new season starts.
[quote author=the count link=topic=44623.msg1302706#msg1302706 date=1300636528]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44623.msg1302705#msg1302705 date=1300636434]
[quote author=the count link=topic=44623.msg1302696#msg1302696 date=1300636079]
Of course you want to have the best players possible in your team Modo but Carragher isn't even the first defender in line to be replaced let alone the whole team.
The way you are singling him out is well over the top in my opinion
[/quote]
I'm with you, Carra isn't our first priority. But look at the league table, look at how many goals we've let in. That alone tells me that there's something wrong with the defence.
Buying a good LB helps. But in order for us to sure up the defence next season, I think we need a new CB.
[/quote] But not primarily to replace Carragher surely
[/quote]
He's 33 years old. Who else should we look to replace?
Agger is the future. I don't know if it's the injuries that have blinded some of you, 'cause he's highly rated defender.
If we for some reason buy a new CB like Cahill, I'd expect him to start next to Agger when the new season starts.
[/quote]
I'd expect Agger to be injured when the new season starts.
Odd, I was just reading about Twain on wikipedia!
[quote author=Richey link=topic=44623.msg1302740#msg1302740 date=1300638036]
I didn't see the game today. Did Carra have a nightmare or something?
[/quote]
no, not at all.
I didn't see the game today. Did Carra have a nightmare or something?
[/quote]
no, not at all.
Not at all
I didn't think he would have done. So what's the problem then?
Carra is a fantastic player. Others might be more glamorous or skillful but they wouldn't necessarily be as reliable or committed. Sadly he's only got a few more years left. We should get as much out of him while we can rather than getting rid early.
Carra is a fantastic player. Others might be more glamorous or skillful but they wouldn't necessarily be as reliable or committed. Sadly he's only got a few more years left. We should get as much out of him while we can rather than getting rid early.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44623.msg1302942#msg1302942 date=1300666295]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44623.msg1302931#msg1302931 date=1300661448]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44623.msg1302222#msg1302222 date=1300612632]
Gary Cahill.
[/quote]
Will never be even half the player Jamie Carragher is.
[/quote]
He's better than him now.
[/quote]
I hope you believe that.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=44623.msg1302931#msg1302931 date=1300661448]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44623.msg1302222#msg1302222 date=1300612632]
Gary Cahill.
[/quote]
Will never be even half the player Jamie Carragher is.
[/quote]
He's better than him now.
[/quote]
I hope you believe that.
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=44623.msg1302972#msg1302972 date=1300677863]
Planning for the future is good, but I cannot believe that anyone would look at the mess that we call our squad and deduce that the solution is 'replace Carragher'.
Shirley you're not serious?
[/quote]
Where did I say that replacing Carragher is the solution to all our problems?
I specifically said that replacing him shouldn't be our top priority. But I do believe that it should be on the list.
We desperately need a world class winger and a left fullback. We have it seems an unlimited amount of CB's in the squad as it is. What worries me is the quality.
If it's between improving on Agger or Carra, I'll always pick the latter.
Why single out Carra you might ask?
Well first of all he's 33 years old and we should be looking for someone to partner Agger in the long run.
He's not as towering in defence like Hyypia was, he doesn't contribute in attack. He gives away possession frequently by hoofing it. I can go on and on.
What's changed? Nothing. He's always been that type of player and his positive traits outweigh the negative ones. We also had Sami Hyypia who had a great partnership with Carra, making his negative traits seem even less apparent.
However Sami isn't here any more and what I'm trying to say is that we should now look for a defender that can form that kind of partnership with Agger. Hence Cahill or Hummels.
I'm not saying that we should look to release Carra. I want three top class defenders that can rotate throughout the season.
Why can't we for once have a central defender like David Luiz (I'm not saying that Cahill is as good as Luiz). Someone who can dribble is good in the air, is quick, agile etc.
However, I do believe that requiring someone like Cahill is a step in the right direction.
He only has a year left in his contract. We can probably get him for £10 Million in the summer.
We've had the same back-line for two dismal seasons now and I think it's time for a change.
Planning for the future is good, but I cannot believe that anyone would look at the mess that we call our squad and deduce that the solution is 'replace Carragher'.
Shirley you're not serious?
[/quote]
Where did I say that replacing Carragher is the solution to all our problems?
I specifically said that replacing him shouldn't be our top priority. But I do believe that it should be on the list.
We desperately need a world class winger and a left fullback. We have it seems an unlimited amount of CB's in the squad as it is. What worries me is the quality.
If it's between improving on Agger or Carra, I'll always pick the latter.
Why single out Carra you might ask?
Well first of all he's 33 years old and we should be looking for someone to partner Agger in the long run.
He's not as towering in defence like Hyypia was, he doesn't contribute in attack. He gives away possession frequently by hoofing it. I can go on and on.
What's changed? Nothing. He's always been that type of player and his positive traits outweigh the negative ones. We also had Sami Hyypia who had a great partnership with Carra, making his negative traits seem even less apparent.
However Sami isn't here any more and what I'm trying to say is that we should now look for a defender that can form that kind of partnership with Agger. Hence Cahill or Hummels.
I'm not saying that we should look to release Carra. I want three top class defenders that can rotate throughout the season.
Why can't we for once have a central defender like David Luiz (I'm not saying that Cahill is as good as Luiz). Someone who can dribble is good in the air, is quick, agile etc.
However, I do believe that requiring someone like Cahill is a step in the right direction.
He only has a year left in his contract. We can probably get him for £10 Million in the summer.
We've had the same back-line for two dismal seasons now and I think it's time for a change.
All good points, Modo...but the fact is that we should be looking at other areas before Carra becomes an issue.
As for the long-term partner for Agger, I'd be willing to bet that we're going to get thrice the number of good games out of Carra over the next two years than we're gooing to get out of Agger.
Or even Skrtel for the matter.
As for the long-term partner for Agger, I'd be willing to bet that we're going to get thrice the number of good games out of Carra over the next two years than we're gooing to get out of Agger.
Or even Skrtel for the matter.
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