We played well in euro 96 for one game. The rest of it seems to live off that, when england were actually rather poor.
Capello
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I know its too much to ask for but I simply want an england manager to pick wide players that are actually wide players, strikers that contribute when we don't have the ball and a holding midfielder that is actually a holding midfielder. I know that is too much to ask for but it really would be nice to see for once.
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=40761.msg1128079#msg1128079 date=1277792933]
We played well in euro 96 for one game. The rest of it seems to live off that, when england were actually rather poor.
[/quote]
Swiss game was a bit lame and Spain outplayed us but I thought we were good against the Scots and the Germans. I assume you're referring to the Holland game, probably the best I've ever seen from an England team.
We played well in euro 96 for one game. The rest of it seems to live off that, when england were actually rather poor.
[/quote]
Swiss game was a bit lame and Spain outplayed us but I thought we were good against the Scots and the Germans. I assume you're referring to the Holland game, probably the best I've ever seen from an England team.
England were very good under Hoddle. He was a bit of a fruitcake, but he was strong and believed in himself and his philosophies. He wasn't afraid to drop players playing on reputation (wright, gazza) or to bench players who he dirt think fit into his formation (beckham, Owen). I didn't always agree with him but he was right to make those decisions. No manager since has tried to select the right players for his formation. Since then it has been 'select the best players' 'crowbar them in'
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40761.msg1128151#msg1128151 date=1277803653]
England were very good under Hoddle. He was a bit of a fruitcake, but he was strong and believed in himself and his philosophies. He wasn't afraid to drop players playing on reputation (wright, gazza) or to bench players who he dirt think fit into his formation (beckham, Owen). I didn't always agree with him but he was right to make those decisions. No manager since has tried to select the right players for his formation. Since then it has been 'select the best players' 'crowbar them in'
[/quote]
He wasn't right about the Owen decision.
England were very good under Hoddle. He was a bit of a fruitcake, but he was strong and believed in himself and his philosophies. He wasn't afraid to drop players playing on reputation (wright, gazza) or to bench players who he dirt think fit into his formation (beckham, Owen). I didn't always agree with him but he was right to make those decisions. No manager since has tried to select the right players for his formation. Since then it has been 'select the best players' 'crowbar them in'
[/quote]
He wasn't right about the Owen decision.
S
Squiggles
Guest
I wonder what Owen did so wrong in a former life to be given such bad hamstrings.
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=40761.msg1128160#msg1128160 date=1277804617]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40761.msg1128151#msg1128151 date=1277803653]
England were very good under Hoddle. He was a bit of a fruitcake, but he was strong and believed in himself and his philosophies. He wasn't afraid to drop players playing on reputation (wright, gazza) or to bench players who he dirt think fit into his formation (beckham, Owen). I didn't always agree with him but he was right to make those decisions. No manager since has tried to select the right players for his formation. Since then it has been 'select the best players' 'crowbar them in'
[/quote]
He wasn't right about the Owen decision.
[/quote]I kinda agree. At the time I thought it was stupid, but who's to say the Owen we saw vs Columbia and Argentina wasn't as a dire t result of holding him back. I thought it was a bad decision but he was right to make it if that's what he thought was best for the team.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40761.msg1128151#msg1128151 date=1277803653]
England were very good under Hoddle. He was a bit of a fruitcake, but he was strong and believed in himself and his philosophies. He wasn't afraid to drop players playing on reputation (wright, gazza) or to bench players who he dirt think fit into his formation (beckham, Owen). I didn't always agree with him but he was right to make those decisions. No manager since has tried to select the right players for his formation. Since then it has been 'select the best players' 'crowbar them in'
[/quote]
He wasn't right about the Owen decision.
[/quote]I kinda agree. At the time I thought it was stupid, but who's to say the Owen we saw vs Columbia and Argentina wasn't as a dire t result of holding him back. I thought it was a bad decision but he was right to make it if that's what he thought was best for the team.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40761.msg1128161#msg1128161 date=1277804808]
I wonder what Owen did so wrong in a former life to be given such bad hamstrings.
[/quote]
Support the Bitters obviously.
I wonder what Owen did so wrong in a former life to be given such bad hamstrings.
[/quote]
Support the Bitters obviously.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40761.msg1128151#msg1128151 date=1277803653]
England were very good under Hoddle. He was a bit of a fruitcake, but he was strong and believed in himself and his philosophies. He wasn't afraid to drop players playing on reputation (wright, gazza) or to bench players who he dirt think fit into his formation (beckham, Owen). I didn't always agree with him but he was right to make those decisions. No manager since has tried to select the right players for his formation. Since then it has been 'select the best players' 'crowbar them in'
[/quote]
Yes.
England were very good under Hoddle. He was a bit of a fruitcake, but he was strong and believed in himself and his philosophies. He wasn't afraid to drop players playing on reputation (wright, gazza) or to bench players who he dirt think fit into his formation (beckham, Owen). I didn't always agree with him but he was right to make those decisions. No manager since has tried to select the right players for his formation. Since then it has been 'select the best players' 'crowbar them in'
[/quote]
Yes.
I don't want a manager to select the right players for his formation. I want a manager to select the right formation for his players, and Hoddle did that. For all his weirdness in some respects, he deserves credit for taking command of the job as opposed to being swept along by it.
I liked hoddle and disagreed with very little of the things he did. so he was batshit crazy, so fucking what?
Everyone, including Capello, turns to the old excuse that the players were tired after a 60 game season.
Well, I wonder how many of them played that many games, to start with, I think most of the key players had longish lay-offs during the season through injury, and what of the Premier League players playing for other World Cup teams.....have they looked tired and jaded?
Top and bottom of it is our talent pool is getting smaller as UK, and other better off EU countries kids are not kicking a ball around in the street anymore, its home from school and PSP out and FaceBook on, added to which we have had a generation where competitive sport has hardly been encouraged.
regards
Well, I wonder how many of them played that many games, to start with, I think most of the key players had longish lay-offs during the season through injury, and what of the Premier League players playing for other World Cup teams.....have they looked tired and jaded?
Top and bottom of it is our talent pool is getting smaller as UK, and other better off EU countries kids are not kicking a ball around in the street anymore, its home from school and PSP out and FaceBook on, added to which we have had a generation where competitive sport has hardly been encouraged.
regards
Quite.
In addition, SSN had some interesting figures which showed the German players had actually played slightly more games than ours overall. There is the argument that those games weren't in the Prem, hence took less out of them, but even so it's an instructive comparison.
In addition, SSN had some interesting figures which showed the German players had actually played slightly more games than ours overall. There is the argument that those games weren't in the Prem, hence took less out of them, but even so it's an instructive comparison.
When you look at the players that turned out for England in this WC about a 1/3 of them had just come off of having poor seasons, and another 1/3 had very recently returned from the treatment table.
Maybe you could blame the manager for picking them, but then when you look at the options available to him he didn't have many other choices imo.
Maybe you could blame the manager for picking them, but then when you look at the options available to him he didn't have many other choices imo.
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=40761.msg1128548#msg1128548 date=1277884635]
Everyone, including Capello, turns to the old excuse that the players were tired after a 60 game season.
Well, I wonder how many of them played that many games, to start with, I think most of the key players had longish lay-offs during the season through injury, and what of the Premier League players playing for other World Cup teams.....have they looked tired and jaded?
Top and bottom of it is our talent pool is getting smaller as UK, and other better off EU countries kids are not kicking a ball around in the street anymore, its home from school and PSP out and FaceBook on, added to which we have had a generation where competitive sport has hardly been encouraged.
regards
[/quote]
They have PSP's and facebook in Spain & Germany too.
Regards
Everyone, including Capello, turns to the old excuse that the players were tired after a 60 game season.
Well, I wonder how many of them played that many games, to start with, I think most of the key players had longish lay-offs during the season through injury, and what of the Premier League players playing for other World Cup teams.....have they looked tired and jaded?
Top and bottom of it is our talent pool is getting smaller as UK, and other better off EU countries kids are not kicking a ball around in the street anymore, its home from school and PSP out and FaceBook on, added to which we have had a generation where competitive sport has hardly been encouraged.
regards
[/quote]
They have PSP's and facebook in Spain & Germany too.
Regards
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=40761.msg1128579#msg1128579 date=1277889418]
When you look at the players that turned out for England in this WC about a 1/3 of them had just come off of having poor seasons, and another 1/3 had very recently returned from the treatment table.
Maybe you could blame the manager for picking them, but then when you look at the options available to him he didn't have many other choices imo.
[/quote]
He could have played them in the right formation and positions for a start, and changed things when it didn't go well.
Gerrard at left midfield? Imagine if Rafa had persisted with that however it's dressed up as a free role? Imagine if Hodgson comes in and insists on playing Gerrard there?
Capello didn't get the spirit of the camp right with his ultra-conservatism and rigidity. He remained loyal to 4-4-2, shoehorning players int positions that they neither play for their clubs or that play to their strengths. He picked players for the squad both out of form and not fully fit despite claiming that he wouldn't. He waitied until the 73rd minute to make a change against Germany and then brought on heskey for Defoe. In the Algeria game we ended up with Rooney on the left wing and Joe Cole on the bench.
He's appeared completely and utterly out of his depth at Intl level.
It appears the Intl job is mostly about choosing a system that fits the players at your disposal and gets the best out of them individually and as a team. The manager has to be comfortable enough in his own skin to be able to handle a squad full of inflated and fragile egos over a long period of weeks together. He also ahs to be able to motivate his team and foster a sense of team spirit. He doesn't have to come with a full CV of club success due to the completely different demands of the post. What has Dunga, Maradona, Loew etc achieved at club level? What had Hoddle achieved at club level prior to doing well in charge of the national side?
I'd rather Gascoigne in charge of England than Capello after that complete and utter debacle. He might complain of tiredness (doesn't stand up statistically) or something wrong with the english mentality (utter bollocks), but he's made so many fundamental errors over the last few weeks that he has to fall on his sword. if he had any dignity he would do.
When you look at the players that turned out for England in this WC about a 1/3 of them had just come off of having poor seasons, and another 1/3 had very recently returned from the treatment table.
Maybe you could blame the manager for picking them, but then when you look at the options available to him he didn't have many other choices imo.
[/quote]
He could have played them in the right formation and positions for a start, and changed things when it didn't go well.
Gerrard at left midfield? Imagine if Rafa had persisted with that however it's dressed up as a free role? Imagine if Hodgson comes in and insists on playing Gerrard there?
Capello didn't get the spirit of the camp right with his ultra-conservatism and rigidity. He remained loyal to 4-4-2, shoehorning players int positions that they neither play for their clubs or that play to their strengths. He picked players for the squad both out of form and not fully fit despite claiming that he wouldn't. He waitied until the 73rd minute to make a change against Germany and then brought on heskey for Defoe. In the Algeria game we ended up with Rooney on the left wing and Joe Cole on the bench.
He's appeared completely and utterly out of his depth at Intl level.
It appears the Intl job is mostly about choosing a system that fits the players at your disposal and gets the best out of them individually and as a team. The manager has to be comfortable enough in his own skin to be able to handle a squad full of inflated and fragile egos over a long period of weeks together. He also ahs to be able to motivate his team and foster a sense of team spirit. He doesn't have to come with a full CV of club success due to the completely different demands of the post. What has Dunga, Maradona, Loew etc achieved at club level? What had Hoddle achieved at club level prior to doing well in charge of the national side?
I'd rather Gascoigne in charge of England than Capello after that complete and utter debacle. He might complain of tiredness (doesn't stand up statistically) or something wrong with the english mentality (utter bollocks), but he's made so many fundamental errors over the last few weeks that he has to fall on his sword. if he had any dignity he would do.
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40761.msg1128596#msg1128596 date=1277890216]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=40761.msg1128548#msg1128548 date=1277884635]
Everyone, including Capello, turns to the old excuse that the players were tired after a 60 game season.
Well, I wonder how many of them played that many games, to start with, I think most of the key players had longish lay-offs during the season through injury, and what of the Premier League players playing for other World Cup teams.....have they looked tired and jaded?
Top and bottom of it is our talent pool is getting smaller as UK, and other better off EU countries kids are not kicking a ball around in the street anymore, its home from school and PSP out and FaceBook on, added to which we have had a generation where competitive sport has hardly been encouraged.
regards
[/quote]
They have PSP's and facebook in Spain & Germany too.
Regards
[/quote]
Yes, as I said, the better off EU countries, as opposed to the lesser economically developed ones of South America, who, as you are so fucking astute, will have noticed are doing proportionally better.
I don't care for you, and don't wish to enter into any further debate so stay out of my way....thanks
regards
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=40761.msg1128548#msg1128548 date=1277884635]
Everyone, including Capello, turns to the old excuse that the players were tired after a 60 game season.
Well, I wonder how many of them played that many games, to start with, I think most of the key players had longish lay-offs during the season through injury, and what of the Premier League players playing for other World Cup teams.....have they looked tired and jaded?
Top and bottom of it is our talent pool is getting smaller as UK, and other better off EU countries kids are not kicking a ball around in the street anymore, its home from school and PSP out and FaceBook on, added to which we have had a generation where competitive sport has hardly been encouraged.
regards
[/quote]
They have PSP's and facebook in Spain & Germany too.
Regards
[/quote]
Yes, as I said, the better off EU countries, as opposed to the lesser economically developed ones of South America, who, as you are so fucking astute, will have noticed are doing proportionally better.
I don't care for you, and don't wish to enter into any further debate so stay out of my way....thanks
regards
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=40761.msg1128613#msg1128613 date=1277891859]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40761.msg1128596#msg1128596 date=1277890216]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=40761.msg1128548#msg1128548 date=1277884635]
Everyone, including Capello, turns to the old excuse that the players were tired after a 60 game season.
Well, I wonder how many of them played that many games, to start with, I think most of the key players had longish lay-offs during the season through injury, and what of the Premier League players playing for other World Cup teams.....have they looked tired and jaded?
Top and bottom of it is our talent pool is getting smaller as UK, and other better off EU countries kids are not kicking a ball around in the street anymore, its home from school and PSP out and FaceBook on, added to which we have had a generation where competitive sport has hardly been encouraged.
regards
[/quote]
They have PSP's and facebook in Spain & Germany too.
Regards
[/quote]
Yes, as I said, the better off EU countries, as opposed to the lesser economically developed ones of South America, who, as you are so fucking astute, will have noticed are doing proportionally better.
I don't care for you, and don't wish to enter into any further debate so stay out of my way....thanks
regards
[/quote]
They had PSP's and facebook in the last world cup when the final was contested between European teams.
It's an open forum and I reserve the right to post on any comment I see fit. If you want to talk to your mates, I'd suggest you telephone them.
Regards
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=40761.msg1128596#msg1128596 date=1277890216]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=40761.msg1128548#msg1128548 date=1277884635]
Everyone, including Capello, turns to the old excuse that the players were tired after a 60 game season.
Well, I wonder how many of them played that many games, to start with, I think most of the key players had longish lay-offs during the season through injury, and what of the Premier League players playing for other World Cup teams.....have they looked tired and jaded?
Top and bottom of it is our talent pool is getting smaller as UK, and other better off EU countries kids are not kicking a ball around in the street anymore, its home from school and PSP out and FaceBook on, added to which we have had a generation where competitive sport has hardly been encouraged.
regards
[/quote]
They have PSP's and facebook in Spain & Germany too.
Regards
[/quote]
Yes, as I said, the better off EU countries, as opposed to the lesser economically developed ones of South America, who, as you are so fucking astute, will have noticed are doing proportionally better.
I don't care for you, and don't wish to enter into any further debate so stay out of my way....thanks
regards
[/quote]
They had PSP's and facebook in the last world cup when the final was contested between European teams.
It's an open forum and I reserve the right to post on any comment I see fit. If you want to talk to your mates, I'd suggest you telephone them.
Regards
[quote author=Niall K link=topic=40761.msg1128640#msg1128640 date=1277895265]
Your posts certainly make you come across as a cunt of massive proportions.
[/quote]
It's good that when we lose posters that everybody fucking despises, a "new" one comes along almost immediately.
Your posts certainly make you come across as a cunt of massive proportions.
[/quote]
It's good that when we lose posters that everybody fucking despises, a "new" one comes along almost immediately.
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=40761.msg1128641#msg1128641 date=1277895316]
[quote author=Niall K link=topic=40761.msg1128640#msg1128640 date=1277895265]
Your posts certainly make you come across as a cunt of massive proportions.
[/quote]
It's good that when we lose posters that everybody fucking despises, a "new" one comes along almost immediately.
[/quote]
Its a gift that the site possess, maybe not one that we should cherish but a gift nonetheless
[quote author=Niall K link=topic=40761.msg1128640#msg1128640 date=1277895265]
Your posts certainly make you come across as a cunt of massive proportions.
[/quote]
It's good that when we lose posters that everybody fucking despises, a "new" one comes along almost immediately.
[/quote]
Its a gift that the site possess, maybe not one that we should cherish but a gift nonetheless
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=40761.msg1128641#msg1128641 date=1277895316]
[quote author=Niall K link=topic=40761.msg1128640#msg1128640 date=1277895265]
Your posts certainly make you come across as a cunt of massive proportions.
[/quote]
It's good that when we lose posters that everybody fucking despises, a "new" one comes along almost immediately.
[/quote]
It's fucking amazing, there must be a bottomless pit of them roaming the internet like zombies, trying their hardest to release themselves from Limbo that they find themselves in, and as if by magic, or some horrible horrible penance we have to abide, start typing sixcrazyminutes into google.
Will it never end?
If Nob King can't see the correlation between kids not playing footy in the street and playground like they used to, and lack of competitive games at school to the decline in English players he must be more thick than I took him for, unless of course he just came here for a good argument, unfortunately the latter is probably more likely.
regards
[quote author=Niall K link=topic=40761.msg1128640#msg1128640 date=1277895265]
Your posts certainly make you come across as a cunt of massive proportions.
[/quote]
It's good that when we lose posters that everybody fucking despises, a "new" one comes along almost immediately.
[/quote]
It's fucking amazing, there must be a bottomless pit of them roaming the internet like zombies, trying their hardest to release themselves from Limbo that they find themselves in, and as if by magic, or some horrible horrible penance we have to abide, start typing sixcrazyminutes into google.
Will it never end?
If Nob King can't see the correlation between kids not playing footy in the street and playground like they used to, and lack of competitive games at school to the decline in English players he must be more thick than I took him for, unless of course he just came here for a good argument, unfortunately the latter is probably more likely.
regards
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=40761.msg1128724#msg1128724 date=1277900485]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=40761.msg1128641#msg1128641 date=1277895316]
[quote author=Niall K link=topic=40761.msg1128640#msg1128640 date=1277895265]
Your posts certainly make you come across as a cunt of massive proportions.
[/quote]
It's good that when we lose posters that everybody fucking despises, a "new" one comes along almost immediately.
[/quote]
It's fucking amazing, there must be a bottomless pit of them roaming the internet like zombies, trying their hardest to release themselves from Limbo that they find themselves in, and as if by magic, or some horrible horrible penance we have to abide, start typing sixcrazyminutes into google.
Will it never end?
If Nob King can't see the correlation between kids not playing footy in the street and playground like they used to, and lack of competitive games at school to the decline in English players he must be more thick than I took him for, unless of course he just came here for a good argument, unfortunately the latter is probably more likely.
regards
[/quote]#
You need to lose the attitude. This is a forum for debate, not a jolly up for you and your mates to agree on everything.
England were crap 20 years ago they didn't have playstations then. They were kicking ball in the streets and playing competitive games in schools. In fact there was a period for a decade when England didn't qualify for any major international tournament. So no, I don't agree with your theory the facts don't back it up. So who's the thick one?
Regards
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=40761.msg1128641#msg1128641 date=1277895316]
[quote author=Niall K link=topic=40761.msg1128640#msg1128640 date=1277895265]
Your posts certainly make you come across as a cunt of massive proportions.
[/quote]
It's good that when we lose posters that everybody fucking despises, a "new" one comes along almost immediately.
[/quote]
It's fucking amazing, there must be a bottomless pit of them roaming the internet like zombies, trying their hardest to release themselves from Limbo that they find themselves in, and as if by magic, or some horrible horrible penance we have to abide, start typing sixcrazyminutes into google.
Will it never end?
If Nob King can't see the correlation between kids not playing footy in the street and playground like they used to, and lack of competitive games at school to the decline in English players he must be more thick than I took him for, unless of course he just came here for a good argument, unfortunately the latter is probably more likely.
regards
[/quote]#
You need to lose the attitude. This is a forum for debate, not a jolly up for you and your mates to agree on everything.
England were crap 20 years ago they didn't have playstations then. They were kicking ball in the streets and playing competitive games in schools. In fact there was a period for a decade when England didn't qualify for any major international tournament. So no, I don't agree with your theory the facts don't back it up. So who's the thick one?
Regards
This ignore button thing is actually quite good, I must say I did not think it was a good idea until now
regards
regards
If you think that's good, just wait until you ignore Rebel.
It's the future I tell ya!
In fact, I propose we start a "Let's all ignore Rebel campaign".
Not only will it be funny, it'll be therapeutic as well
It's the future I tell ya!
In fact, I propose we start a "Let's all ignore Rebel campaign".
Not only will it be funny, it'll be therapeutic as well
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=40761.msg1128821#msg1128821 date=1277905502]
If you think that's good, just wait until you ignore Rebel.
It's the future I tell ya!
In fact, I propose we start a "Let's all ignore Rebel campaign".
Not only will it be funny, it'll be therapeutic as well
[/quote]
he won't notice and it will make no difference to him
If you think that's good, just wait until you ignore Rebel.
It's the future I tell ya!
In fact, I propose we start a "Let's all ignore Rebel campaign".
Not only will it be funny, it'll be therapeutic as well
[/quote]
he won't notice and it will make no difference to him
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=40761.msg1128826#msg1128826 date=1277905753]
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=40761.msg1128821#msg1128821 date=1277905502]
If you think that's good, just wait until you ignore Rebel.
It's the future I tell ya!
In fact, I propose we start a "Let's all ignore Rebel campaign".
Not only will it be funny, it'll be therapeutic as well
[/quote]
he won't notice and it will make no difference to him
[/quote]aye. He's fucking Teflon that wab!
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=40761.msg1128821#msg1128821 date=1277905502]
If you think that's good, just wait until you ignore Rebel.
It's the future I tell ya!
In fact, I propose we start a "Let's all ignore Rebel campaign".
Not only will it be funny, it'll be therapeutic as well
[/quote]
he won't notice and it will make no difference to him
[/quote]aye. He's fucking Teflon that wab!
I know, but if we could just put aside all our differences and unify on this one crucial issue, get everyone behind the campaign . . .
- Status
