Can Someone Who Isn't Mental, Convince Me...
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Anything you say Glock
What does that mean ?
That you're my hero.
Thanks Andy.
What does that mean ?
Dortmund and Rafa's Valencia prove it can be done. Not very often but a possibility nonetheless.
T
the_khl
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Never go full mental, Themn.
I don't think that's necesarily true. Everyone has been largely shit this year. Utd have just been the least shit.
I don't think it's an insurmountable task anyway. We can take inspiration from the likes of Dortmund.
Do you get multiple alerts if you tag someone a few times in a post?
Do you think they still have these threads on Nottingham Forest forums?
Can't see it happening anytime soon Themn, that said we've got 2 major things right recently:
1 - We've decided to buy players who can actually play football. That didn't seem to be the philosophy there for quite a while.
2 - We've got a manager who recognises that football's played differently these days than to 1987.
But, he's starting from so far fucking back that it's going to take an eternity (and some major luck) for us even to get close.
Can't see it happening anytime soon Themn, that said we've got 2 major things right recently:
1 - We've decided to buy players who can actually play football. That didn't seem to be the philosophy there for quite a while.
2 - We've got a manager who recognises that football's played differently these days than to 1987.
But, he's starting from so far fucking back that it's going to take an eternity (and some major luck) for us even to get close.
A lot of those guys got killed in 2011. It was in the news.
Themn goes mental, Dirk scores a penalty and Ryan rips into Kenny. SCM is back!
THEMN
Interesting question - I think NO - not because of cash problems or not having the right players. I realize now that it comes down to one person- and that is the manager you have and how he inspires the team that makes difference between being champions and not being champions. If we examine this season - there is no way I would have expected the current Man U team to win the league - if anything both Man City, and Chelsea were better positioned to win the league. But this season again - Slur Alex has shown that he can get a team of relatively not so world class players and make them play consistently enough throughout the season to be champions. It is quite simple - and if I look at the teams we have had in these non title winning seasons - there were times when we actually had a first 11 that was better than most but still failed to win the title because for whatever reason the manager was unable to make our team play consistently.
I actually believe that if we had Slur Alex as manager he would make us champions even with the team we have now. That's all it takes - and I bet you my life that next season when Jose returns - Chelsea will put up a big challenge for the title because he knows how to motivate a group of players to challenge consistently in every game.
Much of the problems that we see with our team also comes from their attitude - how else can you explain their inconsistencies between games ? - there is no reason why they should have lost to certain teams or draw against certain teams this season between some very good wins but they did. Sometimes I get the feeling they think they are world beaters after a good game only to crash to QPR the next. Also I think all the bollox about playing to a system or a fixed style is outdated - we need to just play to win and adapt our style as necessary. Thats all it is.
Regards,
MORON
Interesting question - I think NO - not because of cash problems or not having the right players. I realize now that it comes down to one person- and that is the manager you have and how he inspires the team that makes difference between being champions and not being champions. If we examine this season - there is no way I would have expected the current Man U team to win the league - if anything both Man City, and Chelsea were better positioned to win the league. But this season again - Slur Alex has shown that he can get a team of relatively not so world class players and make them play consistently enough throughout the season to be champions. It is quite simple - and if I look at the teams we have had in these non title winning seasons - there were times when we actually had a first 11 that was better than most but still failed to win the title because for whatever reason the manager was unable to make our team play consistently.
I actually believe that if we had Slur Alex as manager he would make us champions even with the team we have now. That's all it takes - and I bet you my life that next season when Jose returns - Chelsea will put up a big challenge for the title because he knows how to motivate a group of players to challenge consistently in every game.
Much of the problems that we see with our team also comes from their attitude - how else can you explain their inconsistencies between games ? - there is no reason why they should have lost to certain teams or draw against certain teams this season between some very good wins but they did. Sometimes I get the feeling they think they are world beaters after a good game only to crash to QPR the next. Also I think all the bollox about playing to a system or a fixed style is outdated - we need to just play to win and adapt our style as necessary. Thats all it is.
Regards,
MORON
Scouse Boom Bust Cycle
thats the problem - we seem to think the football season is 19 games, i.e. we only play for half of the season. You wait come next season we will either be utter shit and inconsistent at the start or we will be world beaters up until Christmas when we start to go inconsistent. It has been like this for a long long time now.
It can be done, from where we are now it will take at least 3 years and in that time we have to hope the board/manager get about 80% to 90% of our transfer dealings bang on because we have to live with the cost of those fuck ups for a lot longer than Chelsea/City. Currently we are operating at a 60:40 ratio of shit hot to shit, thats never going to be enough to close the gap but the last transfer window has convinced me we are getting our act together
We would have to point blank refuse to sell any of our players to our rivals regardless of the fee involved as thats just basic fucking common sense although its surprising how often it gets missed (Arsenal/Spurs dont seem to get this at all) We also need to start selling players when their value has peaked and reinvesting in younger players rather than hanging onto them and watching their performance/value decrease. Case in point is Downing, he has had a very good second half to the season but we can all see his limitations, age wise his value on the edge of a cliff and will drop like a stone after this summer, time to get rid while a decent fee can be recouped.
It would also help massively if we got a bunch of highly talented young players coming through our academy into the first team in the next 12 to 18 months, potentially we do, but we have to give them opportunities and manage them correctly. We cant just throw them into the team when we are in the middle of an injury pile up, we need to blood them slowly without putting too much pressure on them or focusing too much on mistakes.
Its a longshot but its not impossible. I believe the whole point of hiring a young manager when FSG looked and Rodgers and Martinez was to take the long term view that we needed a period of rebuilding rather than a quick fix, thats the correct attitude in my opinion. This season was about stopping the rot and rebuilding some shattered confidence, in that respect its largely been a success. Next season we need get European football, that allows us to expand our transfer budget and go after better players, the year after that is when we should be pushing the top clubs all the way
We would have to point blank refuse to sell any of our players to our rivals regardless of the fee involved as thats just basic fucking common sense although its surprising how often it gets missed (Arsenal/Spurs dont seem to get this at all) We also need to start selling players when their value has peaked and reinvesting in younger players rather than hanging onto them and watching their performance/value decrease. Case in point is Downing, he has had a very good second half to the season but we can all see his limitations, age wise his value on the edge of a cliff and will drop like a stone after this summer, time to get rid while a decent fee can be recouped.
It would also help massively if we got a bunch of highly talented young players coming through our academy into the first team in the next 12 to 18 months, potentially we do, but we have to give them opportunities and manage them correctly. We cant just throw them into the team when we are in the middle of an injury pile up, we need to blood them slowly without putting too much pressure on them or focusing too much on mistakes.
Its a longshot but its not impossible. I believe the whole point of hiring a young manager when FSG looked and Rodgers and Martinez was to take the long term view that we needed a period of rebuilding rather than a quick fix, thats the correct attitude in my opinion. This season was about stopping the rot and rebuilding some shattered confidence, in that respect its largely been a success. Next season we need get European football, that allows us to expand our transfer budget and go after better players, the year after that is when we should be pushing the top clubs all the way
It'll happen in the end. Money only takes you so far: I always think you soon get diminishing returns in that you can only support 20 or so good players in a squad, and many of those can't be top class or they get pissed off not playing too much. In the end you just end up wasting the money through inflated fees and players who can't get a game. Of course, it helps to have City money but it's not *necessary*: that quality of squad could've been built for about a third of the price if they'd been at all shrewd. First stage is getting back in the CL, then keep investing that money on young players with little risk (and hope some of these very promising young players come through to supplement the squad), and sooner than you think we could have a title-challenging squad. I'd say within 3 years of getting back in the CL we should be able to challenge.
A team would need more than just luck on their side to come from where we are to win the league, but the ability to retain it is based on the ability to retain players.
Thats the issue really, for clubs trying to get from where we are to the top of the league the real danger is that one of the 3 moneybags teams will see you as a threat and strip away your best players. They have been doing it to Arsenal for years now although they have been their own worst enemies in this regard, Id be surprised if one of the top 3 dont make a move for Bale this year to weaken Spurs.
We do need to have a Klopp type guy in charge who can build a team that is greater than the sum of it's parts. Time will tell whether Rodgers is that man but so far he's got a lot of convincing to do for me.
The problem with saying "look at Dortmund" is that they only had to really overcome Bayern Munich. In England if Utd have a below par season you've now got another 4 teams competing to take advantage. The liklihood of all of them suffering at the same time is very small. We need a really great team and even then you need things to go your way over the course of the season.
It's not impossible but it's pretty hard to see it happening right now.
The problem with saying "look at Dortmund" is that they only had to really overcome Bayern Munich. In England if Utd have a below par season you've now got another 4 teams competing to take advantage. The liklihood of all of them suffering at the same time is very small. We need a really great team and even then you need things to go your way over the course of the season.
It's not impossible but it's pretty hard to see it happening right now.
Well we used to say 'look at Valencia' but then thats not such a good model to follow these days
we will need some luck and for the other teams to have crap seasons. similar to the year Rafa nearly won it where other teams were pants for their normal standards. Unfortunately we blew it in January that season, it may have been our best chance for 20 years.
I worry if we will ever win it again but we will always be close unlike Forest and Villa mentioned
I worry if we will ever win it again but we will always be close unlike Forest and Villa mentioned
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