I'm confident that Doak will come good. The last player I was this confident would become a global superstar is Harvey and I've not been proven wrong yet!
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Poll Ben Doak
- Thread starter rurikbird
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Sorry to break it to ya lad but you’ve not exactly been proven right either.
Let me tell you something ... you are so fucking wrong, no one outside of England will have a clue who he is.
Er, does that include his family in Scotland?
While I agree that the standard is higher now, you can't really argue with Owen being unfuckingreal when he broke out. It wasn't just goals against every side in this league, he was a baby when he scored that amazing goal against Argentina. He got three against Germany. He scored against all the big international teams. He was something else.
I'm going to leave a soft whoosh floating in the air for a couple folks on this page.
Ffs. Really? Owen was doing against the best in the league and the world at the WC. Doak has done it in Scotland and the ressies.
Except that is not the case. Owen scored his first goal at the age Doak is now.
I'm talking about there's similarities in attributes that made them dangerous and breaking into the league at a young age. I'm not pretending Doak has already set the world alight.
Some believe he has a similar ceiling. That’s just laughable. And as others have said it was Owens finishing and intelligent runs that set hi my apart with his pace. He wasn’t strong. Doak is very different attributes wise imo.
I think maybe we’ve been starved of world class talent breaking through into our first team for so long we’ve forgotten what real talent looks like.
Here’s a bit of perspective.
In that FIFA World Youth Championship England had Owen, Carra and Murphy. The next year Owen scored a worldly in the WC and had already broken into our first team.
That Youth Championship also produced players like Henry, Trezequet, Anelka, Cambiasso, Riquelme and a few others that went on to become big household names.
Those were the kind of standards we were talking about. Even Murphy was often dissed for being the worst captain in our history and was 6CM’s fallboy for a long time.
I reckon anyone of them in their pomp could give today’s players a run for their money.
There was one player in that Youth Championship that imo was the best of them all. Remember Pablo Aimar ? How Rafa’s Valencia played a team with Owen, Berger, Heskey and Stevie off the park with Aimar running rings around everyone ? I was there during that match and he was the Messi of his time. I was sat a few rows behind our bench and you could see the players all looking bemused and nobody knew how to stop Aimar. But even he faded and failed to live up to this massive potential. Talent alone isn’t everything and doesn’t guarantee you’ll make it.
Doak, young as he is, isn’t remotely close to any of the players mentioned above and has still a long way to go. He doesn’t strike me of having that X factor but if he worked hard like a false Ronaldo did, he may just carve a good name and career for himself.
Here’s a bit of perspective.
In that FIFA World Youth Championship England had Owen, Carra and Murphy. The next year Owen scored a worldly in the WC and had already broken into our first team.
That Youth Championship also produced players like Henry, Trezequet, Anelka, Cambiasso, Riquelme and a few others that went on to become big household names.
Those were the kind of standards we were talking about. Even Murphy was often dissed for being the worst captain in our history and was 6CM’s fallboy for a long time.
I reckon anyone of them in their pomp could give today’s players a run for their money.
There was one player in that Youth Championship that imo was the best of them all. Remember Pablo Aimar ? How Rafa’s Valencia played a team with Owen, Berger, Heskey and Stevie off the park with Aimar running rings around everyone ? I was there during that match and he was the Messi of his time. I was sat a few rows behind our bench and you could see the players all looking bemused and nobody knew how to stop Aimar. But even he faded and failed to live up to this massive potential. Talent alone isn’t everything and doesn’t guarantee you’ll make it.
Doak, young as he is, isn’t remotely close to any of the players mentioned above and has still a long way to go. He doesn’t strike me of having that X factor but if he worked hard like a false Ronaldo did, he may just carve a good name and career for himself.
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I think maybe you’re having problems with what “ceiling” means.
It doesn’t mean that he’s as skilful or as good as Owen was at the same age. It doesn’t mean he’ll get the chance to play at a World Cup at the same age. Hell, it doesn’t even mean he’ll be as good as Owen.
It simply means it looks like he has the skills and abilities to go very far - and potentially achieve what Owen achieved in the game - ie win lots of things and be considered one of the best talents of his generation.
The point is it’s a fucking ceiling - it’s about the heights he could reach during his career not how high off the floor he is compared to Owen at aged 17 while starting his career.
Was I hoping for too much when I figured you’d understand what a ceiling was?
Owen was strong as well as rapid and smart. He'd been a decent boxer in his schooldays and shrugged Ayala off like a boss to score that goal in the World Cup.
Semantics.
And I cannot phantom how in the fucking world you think he has anywhere near the same ceiling as Owen. He’s done next to nothing to show that. Fucking hell a decent pre season and suddenly his ceiling is as high as Owens. Fuck me. Come back to me when he’s proven he can even hold down a regular place in the a top team before you hyperbole the absolute shit out of what potential heights he can reach.
Ha
Funny that, as soon as he lost his blistering pace he couldn’t hold off shit.
You “phantom” away mate!!!!
I mean he’s’ no Ryan Fraser - yeah, I probably am hyperboling him a bit, but there’s something there in his skill, control, speed, directness that I’ve not seen in a young attacking player coming through our ranks in a long time.
The hype was there before we signed him - surprised you hadn’t been well up on him coming through Celtic’s ranks.
Ah a misspelling. Brilliant gotta. He’s certainly a fantastic prospect, maybe you just don’t appreciate how good Owen was and how few players will ever have his ceiling. His finishing was insane from underage and he continued all the way through.
I was delighted we signed him but there is a big leap from looking great in Scotland and making it at Liverpool. He’s literally done absolutely nothing at any level close to the top of the game to indicate his ceiling is anywhere near Owens.
I hope he explodes this season and shows what you see. That’d be fantastic and unlike some on here in the past with other players, I’m not going to willing him him to fail so can I say I told you so. I want him to be the next Owen (even though he never will be as a winger. Maybe the next Foden.
I think the misspelled word was funny - not like I made it the thrust of my post.
I’m fully aware of how good Owen was and what he was good at. He doesn’t get the credit he deserves due to his exit, his near return and ultimately playing for Utd - but there’s no denying his talent.
You know as well as I do - sometimes you just look at a young player and think - fuck… he’s got it. I feel the same way about Doak as I did when I started to hear about Owen coming through - that’s all.
You are being the kindest of kind calling it a whoosh
Fair enough then. Owen felt different as he was scoring a bazillion goals a year at every level. Doak hasn’t yet at least.
Would love him to be a main stay in the bench this season, get 20 mins and take it.
Yeah - but also, they’re different players - I don’t expect Doak’s scoring to be like Owen’s - but I do think his skill & technical ability on the ball is better at the same age.
Ok - If I said I think Trent has a similar ceiling as Owen, does that clarify more what I’m trying to say - I don’t mean Trent will score as many goals as Owen, or that’s he’s got the same skills as Owen - I mean that the skillset he has, regardless of what he has or hasn’t done so far, suggested he can reach the heights Owen reached.
Owen gets mentioned because, some of their skills and breakthrough age is similar - there are probably other players that could have been mentioned - positionally Doak is probably closer to McManaman than Owen.
Happy to swap Owen for McManaman if that makes it easier.
We can open up a separate thread about who was the “better” player between Owen & McManaman if you like.
Mcmanamanamanaman was skilful but as frustrating as fuck. I never really rated him that highly for that reason.
One memory that sticks out for me is him going around about 3 players on the half way line, to find himself in space out on the right wing and strikers running through the middle, only to see him run the ball over the touchline
One memory that sticks out for me is him going around about 3 players on the half way line, to find himself in space out on the right wing and strikers running through the middle, only to see him run the ball over the touchline
Yet, he went on to play in a very good Real Madrid team, whereas Owen got fucked back to England after a season.
Owen excelled more at international level than McManaman.
They were both dicks about their contracts.
Also… Owen didn’t wear one of those white suits.
You cannot seriously think Doaks technical ability is as good or better than Owens at the same age when it’s never been tested against the best players or at the break neck speed of the EPL. Players can look great until they step up and suddenly that technical ability looks very average. Can’t compare his to Owens until we see him playing regularly which may never happen at LFC at least.
Owen hands down.
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