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Barclays Capital etc

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[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=39787.msg1087646#msg1087646 date=1271234403]
Well, I might come across as a bit hypocritical here JJ, but we need to get this right, owners and manager or we could soon be on a slippery slope, and might well have problems.
This could just come about at the right time, and I think the owners see that too. They might be a bit naive , but they are not stupid and realise that not qualifying for the CL this year is the thin end of the wedge as far as needing serious investment in the team to get it back in the mix, and we are talking a minimum of £70m, never mind Rafa's £50.

regards

[/quote]

is that all rafa wants, fucking hell, I'll lend that to him.
 
So if there is a full sell out and the club ends up going for about the 400 mill mark. how much do the yanks make?
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=39787.msg1087655#msg1087655 date=1271236397]
There seemed to be some confusion about whether Barca were the model to follow.
[/quote]

how many of barca's first team came via the youth?

can you imagine how strong west ham would be if they had the money to hold on to their youth?
rio
carrick
cole
lampard
johnson
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=39787.msg1087646#msg1087646 date=1271234403]
Well, I might come across as a bit hypocritical here JJ, but we need to get this right, owners and manager or we could soon be on a slippery slope, and might well have problems.
This could just come about at the right time, and I think the owners see that too. They might be a bit naive , but they are not stupid and realise that not qualifying for the CL this year is the thin end of the wedge as far as needing serious investment in the team to get it back in the mix, and we are talking a minimum of £70m, never mind Rafa's £50.

regards

[/quote]

While having concerns about the intensions of our new owners I suppose this does present an opportunity to put to right the mistake of selling to Hicks and Gilett.
I have no doubt that there will be many parties interested in purchasing Liverpool football club, as they, like H&G before them, will see an opportunity to put a bit of money into the club and see a big return on their investment.

Making money from the club would not be dependent on us winning the Premiership, Champions League or whatever else. Increasing turnover, be it through a bigger stadium, better marketing or whatever is the prize. Winning a trophy would be the bonus that brings in extra profits.
Maybe I have become too cynical of these potential investor's motives but to those who just want rid of Hicks and Gilett, (and I do too) without giving thought to their successors I say again, "be careful what you wish for, it may come true"
 
[quote author=Asim link=topic=39787.msg1087660#msg1087660 date=1271236699]
So if there is a full sell out and the club ends up going for about the 400 mill mark. how much do the yanks make?
[/quote]

400-450 sounds resonable. 50m profit each for doing fuck all.
you have the 230m debt and the 60 mil each the yanks pumped in to reduce the loan to 230m.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39787.msg1087668#msg1087668 date=1271237268]
Groaannn... so Rafa will still be here next season?
[/quote]

There seems to be a good chance that he will if he chooses to stay.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39787.msg1087668#msg1087668 date=1271237268]
Groaannn... so Rafa will still be here next season?
[/quote]

He will also be given 50 odd million to waste on new starlets and talent apparently.
 
[quote author=Asim link=topic=39787.msg1087671#msg1087671 date=1271237656]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39787.msg1087668#msg1087668 date=1271237268]
Groaannn... so Rafa will still be here next season?
[/quote]

He will also be given 50 odd million to waste on new starlets and talent apparently.
[/quote]

I seriously think people do rafa a disservice in regards to signings, as if all his signing were fucking shite, the manager who has bought argubly the best keeper in our history, alonso (he sold him sure but he was the one who signed him in the first place) masher, torres etc. rafa has made mistakes in the transfer market but then so has everyone so it fucking pisses me off when its made out all his signing are shit because that's bollox. before this disaster of a season the squad that rafa assembled brought liverpool within touching distance of the league, you don't do that with shit signings.
 
I generally think people are barking up the wrong tree when they complain about signings too.

Formation, team selection, style of play, player motivation, ridiculous substitutions - plenty of reason for complaint, but in the transfer market I don't think he's done that badly.
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=39787.msg1087674#msg1087674 date=1271238736]
I generally think people are barking up the wrong tree when they complain about signings too.

Formation, team selection, style of play, player motivation, ridiculous substitutions - plenty of reason for complaint, but in the transfer market I don't think he's done that badly.
[/quote]

I would argue that his last two seasons have been nothing short of "fucking disastrous"
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39787.msg1087678#msg1087678 date=1271239084]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=39787.msg1087674#msg1087674 date=1271238736]
I generally think people are barking up the wrong tree when they complain about signings too.

Formation, team selection, style of play, player motivation, ridiculous substitutions - plenty of reason for complaint, but in the transfer market I don't think he's done that badly.
[/quote]

I would argue that his last two seasons have been nothing short of "fucking disastrous"

[/quote]

I agree that only johnson is worth a shit from the previous to years (and the only signing I actually was excited by before he came) but its unfair to belittle rafa's entire transfer policy solely based on the past two years, the past two years I might add where the 'sell to buy' policy kicked in.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39787.msg1087678#msg1087678 date=1271239084]
I would argue that his last two seasons have been nothing short of "fucking disastrous"

[/quote]

The Keane signing never made much sense to me, but it might have made more sense if Keane was to partner Torres and they'd been given more/any opportunity to work on this.

Johnson is a great signing as far as I'm concerned.

Aquilani I like, he just needs to get fit, and we need to stop trying to pretend he's Alonso. Obviously I realise that you think he's rubbish.
 
[quote author=the count link=topic=39787.msg1087670#msg1087670 date=1271237641]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39787.msg1087668#msg1087668 date=1271237268]
Groaannn... so Rafa will still be here next season?
[/quote]

There seems to be a good chance that he will if he chooses to stay.
[/quote]

I'd agree with that. Unless he chooses to go he'll be staying. He won't be sacked IMO.
 
I'm a big fan of magic, but we shouldn't have bought him when we had 1 striker good enough to start. Or that perennial left wing issue. SAying that, now he is here I'm delighted
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=39787.msg1087683#msg1087683 date=1271239661]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39787.msg1087678#msg1087678 date=1271239084]
I would argue that his last two seasons have been nothing short of "fucking disastrous"

[/quote]

The Keane signing never made much sense to me, but it might have made more sense if Keane was to partner Torres and they'd been given more/any opportunity to work on this.

Johnson is a great signing as far as I'm concerned.

Aquilani I like, he just needs to get fit, and we need to stop trying to pretend he's Alonso. Obviously I realise that you think he's rubbish.
[/quote]

going from memory past 2 years

the doss - fucking disaster
degan - fucking disaster
aqua - jury still out, he's been injuried
johnson - fucking ACE
maxi - improving, looks decent
keane - fucking disaster
reira - average

the past two years have been shocking but we hasn't lost a lot of money on them as we've moved some of them on quickly and some of the money hasn't even been reinvested into the club
 
[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=39787.msg1087686#msg1087686 date=1271241046]
I'm a big fan of magic, but we shouldn't have bought him when we had 1 striker good enough to start. Or that perennial left wing issue. SAying that, now he is here I'm delighted
[/quote]

he is the best available and we got him in I really wished rafa had done the same thing with alves, if not rafa's fault the owners were cunts and withheld the keane money, how the fuck are you supposed to move forwards when they pull shit like that?
 
[quote author=the count link=topic=39787.msg1087663#msg1087663 date=1271236880]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=39787.msg1087646#msg1087646 date=1271234403]
Well, I might come across as a bit hypocritical here JJ, but we need to get this right, owners and manager or we could soon be on a slippery slope, and might well have problems.
This could just come about at the right time, and I think the owners see that too. They might be a bit naive , but they are not stupid and realise that not qualifying for the CL this year is the thin end of the wedge as far as needing serious investment in the team to get it back in the mix, and we are talking a minimum of £70m, never mind Rafa's £50.

regards

[/quote]

While having concerns about the intensions of our new owners I suppose this does present an opportunity to put to right the mistake of selling to Hicks and Gilett.
I have no doubt that there will be many parties interested in purchasing Liverpool football club, as they, like H&G before them, will see an opportunity to put a bit of money into the club and see a big return on their investment.

Making money from the club would not be dependent on us winning the Premiership, Champions League or whatever else. Increasing turnover, be it through a bigger stadium, better marketing or whatever is the prize. Winning a trophy would be the bonus that brings in extra profits.
Maybe I have become too cynical of these potential investor's motives but to those who just want rid of Hicks and Gilett, (and I do too) without giving thought to their successors I say again, "be careful what you wish for, it may come true"
[/quote]

I think it would count, success breeds success, if we were not doing well on the pitch I can guarantee we would not be filling a new stadium or selling shirts. In football the adage that you have to speculate to accumulate has never been more true.

regards
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=39787.msg1087674#msg1087674 date=1271238736]
I generally think people are barking up the wrong tree when they complain about signings too.

Formation, team selection, style of play, player motivation, ridiculous substitutions - plenty of reason for complaint, but in the transfer market I don't think he's done that badly.
[/quote]

I broadly agree with that Robin, the signings are not his biggest problem, he has brought some dross, but who hasn't. Although I do think he has not known how to handle and where to play some of them.

regards
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1087691#msg1087691 date=1271241358]
[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=39787.msg1087686#msg1087686 date=1271241046]
I'm a big fan of magic, but we shouldn't have bought him when we had 1 striker good enough to start. Or that perennial left wing issue. SAying that, now he is here I'm delighted
[/quote]

he is the best available and we got him in I really wished rafa had done the same thing with alves, if not rafa's fault the owners were cunts and withheld the keane money, how the fuck are you supposed to move forwards when they pull shit like that?
[/quote]

He was the best right back I agree, but we could've gotten a steady full back or promoted from the reserves. Last summer we really should've focused on bigger issues. Another striker would've been immensely useful. If we were worried about getting our money back off Portsmouth then I would've taken kranjcar. That leaves 9 million of our money left, rather than spending it all on 1 player. Portsmouth would still owe us money like, but we could've taken a decent young player. That 9 million could buy a decent right back (if desperate) or attempt to buy a decent striker.
 
[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=39787.msg1087686#msg1087686 date=1271241046]
I'm a big fan of magic, but we shouldn't have bought him when we had 1 striker good enough to start. Or that perennial left wing issue. SAying that, now he is here I'm delighted
[/quote]

But you can only go for what you can afford and what's available (obviously, sorry).

Again, he's not been anywhere near perfect in the transfer market, but he has brought in some truly excellent players over the course of his time here, including Johnson recently.

It seems to me that rigidly sticking to 4231 when you no longer have the player that made it work is his biggest failing. That and continuing to play Gerrard at second striker when it's clearly not working anymore. Although these two things are ultimately the same issue.

If he was willing to play a setup that suited the central midfielders he has (Gerrard, and Aquilani or Lucas attacking, Mascher holding) and was willing to use Kuyt as striker backup to Torres, his squad on the whole would make a lot more sense and look a lot better.

He just has a track record of signing a decent player and then playing them in a role that clearly doesn't get the best from them. He's clearly more obsessed by what he thinks is possible on paper than what really works on the pitch.

Fair enough to experiment, but you have to be able to go back on it when it doesn't work.

The squad (therefore signings) isn't the main problem.
 
I agree completely, but when you say the Last few awful transfer windows aren't his biggest problem, you know you're in trouble
 
[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=39787.msg1087698#msg1087698 date=1271242178]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1087691#msg1087691 date=1271241358]
[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=39787.msg1087686#msg1087686 date=1271241046]
I'm a big fan of magic, but we shouldn't have bought him when we had 1 striker good enough to start. Or that perennial left wing issue. SAying that, now he is here I'm delighted
[/quote]

he is the best available and we got him in I really wished rafa had done the same thing with alves, if not rafa's fault the owners were cunts and withheld the keane money, how the fuck are you supposed to move forwards when they pull shit like that?
[/quote]

He was the best right back I agree, but we could've gotten a steady full back or promoted from the reserves. Last summer we really should've focused on bigger issues. Another striker would've been immensely useful. If we were worried about getting our money back off Portsmouth then I would've taken kranjcar. That leaves 9 million of our money left, rather than spending it all on 1 player. Portsmouth would still owe us money like, but we could've taken a decent young player. That 9 million could buy a decent right back (if desperate) or attempt to buy a decent striker.
[/quote]

buy a steady right back? weren't people complaining when rafa was gradually improving the squad with several squad players a season rather than targeting more expensive quality players (that leave you short of depth)?
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1087705#msg1087705 date=1271243362]
[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=39787.msg1087698#msg1087698 date=1271242178]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1087691#msg1087691 date=1271241358]
[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=39787.msg1087686#msg1087686 date=1271241046]
I'm a big fan of magic, but we shouldn't have bought him when we had 1 striker good enough to start. Or that perennial left wing issue. SAying that, now he is here I'm delighted
[/quote]

he is the best available and we got him in I really wished rafa had done the same thing with alves, if not rafa's fault the owners were cunts and withheld the keane money, how the fuck are you supposed to move forwards when they pull shit like that?
[/quote]

He was the best right back I agree, but we could've gotten a steady full back or promoted from the reserves. Last summer we really should've focused on bigger issues. Another striker would've been immensely useful. If we were worried about getting our money back off Portsmouth then I would've taken kranjcar. That leaves 9 million of our money left, rather than spending it all on 1 player. Portsmouth would still owe us money like, but we could've taken a decent young player. That 9 million could buy a decent right back (if desperate) or attempt to buy a decent striker.
[/quote]

buy a steady right back? weren't people complaining when rafa was gradually improving the squad with several squad players a season rather than targeting more expensive quality players (that leave you short of depth)?
[/quote]

It's called getting your priorities right Neil.
Fabio is blob on , we should have sorted out our attack first and foremost.
regards
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=39787.msg1087706#msg1087706 date=1271243429]
Yeah, of course. He needs to go as he clearly won't learn from his mistakes.
[/quote]

Which for me has always been the main issue and a trait he showed fairly early in his tenure

regards
 
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