Barclays Capital etc
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[quote author=Asim link=topic=39787.msg1086899#msg1086899 date=1271065389]
Wasn't Purslow tasked with sorting out new investment and potentially selling the club?
[/quote]
he actually did with the rhone deal but G&H knocked back the deal. I think the Broughton has been brought on board because he has better contacts.
Wasn't Purslow tasked with sorting out new investment and potentially selling the club?
[/quote]
he actually did with the rhone deal but G&H knocked back the deal. I think the Broughton has been brought on board because he has better contacts.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1086900#msg1086900 date=1271065601]
[quote author=Asim link=topic=39787.msg1086899#msg1086899 date=1271065389]
Wasn't Purslow tasked with sorting out new investment and potentially selling the club?
[/quote]
he actually did with the rhone deal but G&H knocked back the deal. I think the Broughton has been brought on board because he has better contacts.
[/quote]
At which point G&H will also knock back a deal
[quote author=Asim link=topic=39787.msg1086899#msg1086899 date=1271065389]
Wasn't Purslow tasked with sorting out new investment and potentially selling the club?
[/quote]
he actually did with the rhone deal but G&H knocked back the deal. I think the Broughton has been brought on board because he has better contacts.
[/quote]
At which point G&H will also knock back a deal
[quote author=Asim link=topic=39787.msg1086913#msg1086913 date=1271066470]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1086900#msg1086900 date=1271065601]
[quote author=Asim link=topic=39787.msg1086899#msg1086899 date=1271065389]
Wasn't Purslow tasked with sorting out new investment and potentially selling the club?
[/quote]
he actually did with the rhone deal but G&H knocked back the deal. I think the Broughton has been brought on board because he has better contacts.
[/quote]
At which point G&H will also knock back a deal
[/quote]
they wont, the extention of the loan is on condition of the sale according to the times article.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1086900#msg1086900 date=1271065601]
[quote author=Asim link=topic=39787.msg1086899#msg1086899 date=1271065389]
Wasn't Purslow tasked with sorting out new investment and potentially selling the club?
[/quote]
he actually did with the rhone deal but G&H knocked back the deal. I think the Broughton has been brought on board because he has better contacts.
[/quote]
At which point G&H will also knock back a deal
[/quote]
they wont, the extention of the loan is on condition of the sale according to the times article.
dare we hope we are finally entering the 'end game' for those two fucking leeches
[quote author=DHSC link=topic=39787.msg1086940#msg1086940 date=1271073336]
Would there be a conflict of interest between Barclays sponsoring the Premier League and actually owning a bit of us?
[/quote]
not really an issue as barclays dont own part of us
Would there be a conflict of interest between Barclays sponsoring the Premier League and actually owning a bit of us?
[/quote]
not really an issue as barclays dont own part of us
So, has it all been a smokescreen from the Americans point of view or are we really going to be sold?
They've now got their 6 month extension, though have promised to do their utmost to sell the club. But is this just extremely vauge? Or am I being overly pessimistic.
They've now got their 6 month extension, though have promised to do their utmost to sell the club. But is this just extremely vauge? Or am I being overly pessimistic.
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=39787.msg1086988#msg1086988 date=1271080135]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1086939#msg1086939 date=1271073011]
dare we hope we are finally entering the 'end game' for those two fucking leeches
[/quote]
Might be a case of frying pan / fire
[/quote]
even if the new owners bought the club took on the debt and then leveraged it back onto the club but started the stadium, we'd be better off
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1086939#msg1086939 date=1271073011]
dare we hope we are finally entering the 'end game' for those two fucking leeches
[/quote]
Might be a case of frying pan / fire
[/quote]
even if the new owners bought the club took on the debt and then leveraged it back onto the club but started the stadium, we'd be better off
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=39787.msg1087012#msg1087012 date=1271084645]
Which new owners?
[/quote]
sorry, potential new owners.
Which new owners?
[/quote]
sorry, potential new owners.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1086993#msg1086993 date=1271081201]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=39787.msg1086988#msg1086988 date=1271080135]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1086939#msg1086939 date=1271073011]
dare we hope we are finally entering the 'end game' for those two fucking leeches
[/quote]
Might be a case of frying pan / fire
[/quote]
even if the new owners bought the club took on the debt and then leveraged it back onto the club but started the stadium, we'd be better off
[/quote]
Errr, no we fucking wouldn't - depending upon the scale of leverage (and agreements to the buying parties regarding form of investment/ reduction of debt and the cost of sale, etc) you could very easily see us in a much, much worse situation.
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=39787.msg1086988#msg1086988 date=1271080135]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1086939#msg1086939 date=1271073011]
dare we hope we are finally entering the 'end game' for those two fucking leeches
[/quote]
Might be a case of frying pan / fire
[/quote]
even if the new owners bought the club took on the debt and then leveraged it back onto the club but started the stadium, we'd be better off
[/quote]
Errr, no we fucking wouldn't - depending upon the scale of leverage (and agreements to the buying parties regarding form of investment/ reduction of debt and the cost of sale, etc) you could very easily see us in a much, much worse situation.
[quote author=grjt link=topic=39787.msg1087017#msg1087017 date=1271085258]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1086993#msg1086993 date=1271081201]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=39787.msg1086988#msg1086988 date=1271080135]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1086939#msg1086939 date=1271073011]
dare we hope we are finally entering the 'end game' for those two fucking leeches
[/quote]
Might be a case of frying pan / fire
[/quote]
even if the new owners bought the club took on the debt and then leveraged it back onto the club but started the stadium, we'd be better off
[/quote]
Errr, no we fucking wouldn't - depending upon the scale of leverage (and agreements to the buying parties regarding form of investment/ reduction of debt and the cost of sale, etc) you could very easily see us in a much, much worse situation.
[/quote]
the debt is already loaded onto the club and there is no stadium in sight so how is the same situation with the debt but with a stadium in production not better than our current situation? I'm not saying the new potential owners will leverage the debt back onto us but they might and there is nothing to stop them doing it.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1086993#msg1086993 date=1271081201]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=39787.msg1086988#msg1086988 date=1271080135]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1086939#msg1086939 date=1271073011]
dare we hope we are finally entering the 'end game' for those two fucking leeches
[/quote]
Might be a case of frying pan / fire
[/quote]
even if the new owners bought the club took on the debt and then leveraged it back onto the club but started the stadium, we'd be better off
[/quote]
Errr, no we fucking wouldn't - depending upon the scale of leverage (and agreements to the buying parties regarding form of investment/ reduction of debt and the cost of sale, etc) you could very easily see us in a much, much worse situation.
[/quote]
the debt is already loaded onto the club and there is no stadium in sight so how is the same situation with the debt but with a stadium in production not better than our current situation? I'm not saying the new potential owners will leverage the debt back onto us but they might and there is nothing to stop them doing it.
In simple terms
G&H are preparing an Exit Strategy... The stumbling block appears to be on the valuation. G&H are basing their valuation on work yet to begin, which is unrealistic. If they'd started the stadium they'd have more of a bargaining chip, but as we all know they haven't.
Therefore to say "Here's our valuation based on a New Anfield" is wrong, they might as well say 'oh and we've added on future prize money to the price'.
RBS would be under pressure from a Tory government to recoup the tax payer's loan effectively, whereas Barclay's are not. It's not in the bank's interest to recoup money when they are earning much more in interest payments alone. One of the main stumbling blocks seems to be the fact that Hicks and Gillett are using their own banks to broker a deal. So in effect, we are paying Interest & Bankers fees to 3 banks.
It'd make much more sense to have it all in-house, although initially fees will be high.
Bottom line is, depending on where we finish in the league is how much we will be sold for. Just a shame we haven't got any Billionaire fan's wanting to bail us out.
G&H are preparing an Exit Strategy... The stumbling block appears to be on the valuation. G&H are basing their valuation on work yet to begin, which is unrealistic. If they'd started the stadium they'd have more of a bargaining chip, but as we all know they haven't.
Therefore to say "Here's our valuation based on a New Anfield" is wrong, they might as well say 'oh and we've added on future prize money to the price'.
RBS would be under pressure from a Tory government to recoup the tax payer's loan effectively, whereas Barclay's are not. It's not in the bank's interest to recoup money when they are earning much more in interest payments alone. One of the main stumbling blocks seems to be the fact that Hicks and Gillett are using their own banks to broker a deal. So in effect, we are paying Interest & Bankers fees to 3 banks.
It'd make much more sense to have it all in-house, although initially fees will be high.
Bottom line is, depending on where we finish in the league is how much we will be sold for. Just a shame we haven't got any Billionaire fan's wanting to bail us out.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1087025#msg1087025 date=1271086819]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=39787.msg1087017#msg1087017 date=1271085258]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1086993#msg1086993 date=1271081201]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=39787.msg1086988#msg1086988 date=1271080135]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1086939#msg1086939 date=1271073011]
dare we hope we are finally entering the 'end game' for those two fucking leeches
[/quote]
Might be a case of frying pan / fire
[/quote]
even if the new owners bought the club took on the debt and then leveraged it back onto the club but started the stadium, we'd be better off
[/quote]
Errr, no we fucking wouldn't - depending upon the scale of leverage (and agreements to the buying parties regarding form of investment/ reduction of debt and the cost of sale, etc) you could very easily see us in a much, much worse situation.
[/quote]
the debt is already loaded onto the club and there is no stadium in sight so how is the same situation with the debt but with a stadium in production not better than our current situation? I'm not saying the new potential owners will leverage the debt back onto us but they might and there is nothing to stop them doing it.
[/quote]
Neil, even your brain should be able to comprehend a myriad of different fuck up situations - here's one, X group buy the club for 450m which G&H accept regardless of any "fit and proper person" assessment - the group then immediately add this to the clubs debts without servicing more than the basic repayment requirements. They push forward with an ill conceived stadium plan, again using the clubs future cash flow to guarantee payments to a few select vultures who are also prepared to take stakes/ payment on the never never.
[quote author=grjt link=topic=39787.msg1087017#msg1087017 date=1271085258]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1086993#msg1086993 date=1271081201]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=39787.msg1086988#msg1086988 date=1271080135]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1086939#msg1086939 date=1271073011]
dare we hope we are finally entering the 'end game' for those two fucking leeches
[/quote]
Might be a case of frying pan / fire
[/quote]
even if the new owners bought the club took on the debt and then leveraged it back onto the club but started the stadium, we'd be better off
[/quote]
Errr, no we fucking wouldn't - depending upon the scale of leverage (and agreements to the buying parties regarding form of investment/ reduction of debt and the cost of sale, etc) you could very easily see us in a much, much worse situation.
[/quote]
the debt is already loaded onto the club and there is no stadium in sight so how is the same situation with the debt but with a stadium in production not better than our current situation? I'm not saying the new potential owners will leverage the debt back onto us but they might and there is nothing to stop them doing it.
[/quote]
Neil, even your brain should be able to comprehend a myriad of different fuck up situations - here's one, X group buy the club for 450m which G&H accept regardless of any "fit and proper person" assessment - the group then immediately add this to the clubs debts without servicing more than the basic repayment requirements. They push forward with an ill conceived stadium plan, again using the clubs future cash flow to guarantee payments to a few select vultures who are also prepared to take stakes/ payment on the never never.
[quote author=grjt link=topic=39787.msg1087043#msg1087043 date=1271089242]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1087025#msg1087025 date=1271086819]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=39787.msg1087017#msg1087017 date=1271085258]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1086993#msg1086993 date=1271081201]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=39787.msg1086988#msg1086988 date=1271080135]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1086939#msg1086939 date=1271073011]
dare we hope we are finally entering the 'end game' for those two fucking leeches
[/quote]
Might be a case of frying pan / fire
[/quote]
even if the new owners bought the club took on the debt and then leveraged it back onto the club but started the stadium, we'd be better off
[/quote]
Errr, no we fucking wouldn't - depending upon the scale of leverage (and agreements to the buying parties regarding form of investment/ reduction of debt and the cost of sale, etc) you could very easily see us in a much, much worse situation.
[/quote]
the debt is already loaded onto the club and there is no stadium in sight so how is the same situation with the debt but with a stadium in production not better than our current situation? I'm not saying the new potential owners will leverage the debt back onto us but they might and there is nothing to stop them doing it.
[/quote]
Neil, even your brain should be able to comprehend a myriad of different fuck up situations - here's one, X group buy the club for 450m which G&H accept regardless of any "fit and proper person" assessment - the group then immediately add this to the clubs debts without servicing more than the basic repayment requirements. They push forward with an ill conceived stadium plan, again using the clubs future cash flow to guarantee payments to a few select vultures who are also prepared to take stakes/ payment on the never never.
[/quote]
first off I want liverpool to be debt free, have a stadium and have a decent transfer kitty but the current situation is the club has been loaded with the fee it took to buy us, we have no stadium and our trasnfer policy is currently sell to buy.
now a new owner can come in, clear the debts and start work on the stadium that would be absolutely fantastic but there is nothing whatsoever to stop said owner from loading the debt of the purchase (rather than the stadium as that will be handled like mortgage) back on the club, nothing at all.
so if it was a choice of leveraged debt and no stadium and leveraged debt and a stadium I know what I perfer, but as I said before my hope is someone buys us and doesn't load the debt back onto the club, that what lerner did with villa.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1087025#msg1087025 date=1271086819]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=39787.msg1087017#msg1087017 date=1271085258]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1086993#msg1086993 date=1271081201]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=39787.msg1086988#msg1086988 date=1271080135]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1086939#msg1086939 date=1271073011]
dare we hope we are finally entering the 'end game' for those two fucking leeches
[/quote]
Might be a case of frying pan / fire
[/quote]
even if the new owners bought the club took on the debt and then leveraged it back onto the club but started the stadium, we'd be better off
[/quote]
Errr, no we fucking wouldn't - depending upon the scale of leverage (and agreements to the buying parties regarding form of investment/ reduction of debt and the cost of sale, etc) you could very easily see us in a much, much worse situation.
[/quote]
the debt is already loaded onto the club and there is no stadium in sight so how is the same situation with the debt but with a stadium in production not better than our current situation? I'm not saying the new potential owners will leverage the debt back onto us but they might and there is nothing to stop them doing it.
[/quote]
Neil, even your brain should be able to comprehend a myriad of different fuck up situations - here's one, X group buy the club for 450m which G&H accept regardless of any "fit and proper person" assessment - the group then immediately add this to the clubs debts without servicing more than the basic repayment requirements. They push forward with an ill conceived stadium plan, again using the clubs future cash flow to guarantee payments to a few select vultures who are also prepared to take stakes/ payment on the never never.
[/quote]
first off I want liverpool to be debt free, have a stadium and have a decent transfer kitty but the current situation is the club has been loaded with the fee it took to buy us, we have no stadium and our trasnfer policy is currently sell to buy.
now a new owner can come in, clear the debts and start work on the stadium that would be absolutely fantastic but there is nothing whatsoever to stop said owner from loading the debt of the purchase (rather than the stadium as that will be handled like mortgage) back on the club, nothing at all.
so if it was a choice of leveraged debt and no stadium and leveraged debt and a stadium I know what I perfer, but as I said before my hope is someone buys us and doesn't load the debt back onto the club, that what lerner did with villa.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39787.msg1087048#msg1087048 date=1271089985]
Spidey you need to look at Villa's accounts.
[/quote]
I saw an interview about two weeks ago and the guy said lerner hadn't loaded the debt it took to buy villa back onto the club.
Spidey you need to look at Villa's accounts.
[/quote]
I saw an interview about two weeks ago and the guy said lerner hadn't loaded the debt it took to buy villa back onto the club.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1087049#msg1087049 date=1271090217]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39787.msg1087048#msg1087048 date=1271089985]
Spidey you need to look at Villa's accounts.
[/quote]
I saw an interview about two weeks ago and the guy said lerner hadn't loaded the debt it took to buy villa back onto the club.
[/quote]
He bought the club for 60m, he then loaned it 95m. He receives 5m a year back in interest on that 95m, plus 7.7m in "management fees".
Nearly 13m was directly taken out of the club by the owner. He's doing it differently but Villa are paying.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39787.msg1087048#msg1087048 date=1271089985]
Spidey you need to look at Villa's accounts.
[/quote]
I saw an interview about two weeks ago and the guy said lerner hadn't loaded the debt it took to buy villa back onto the club.
[/quote]
He bought the club for 60m, he then loaned it 95m. He receives 5m a year back in interest on that 95m, plus 7.7m in "management fees".
Nearly 13m was directly taken out of the club by the owner. He's doing it differently but Villa are paying.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39787.msg1087050#msg1087050 date=1271090480]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1087049#msg1087049 date=1271090217]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39787.msg1087048#msg1087048 date=1271089985]
Spidey you need to look at Villa's accounts.
[/quote]
I saw an interview about two weeks ago and the guy said lerner hadn't loaded the debt it took to buy villa back onto the club.
[/quote]
He bought the club for 60m, he then loaned it 95m. He receives 5m a year back in interest on that 95m, plus 7.7m in "management fees".
Nearly 13m was directly taken out of the club by the owner. He's doing it differently but Villa are paying.
[/quote]
is there no integrity left in the world? well, villa are still better off then we are.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39787.msg1087049#msg1087049 date=1271090217]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39787.msg1087048#msg1087048 date=1271089985]
Spidey you need to look at Villa's accounts.
[/quote]
I saw an interview about two weeks ago and the guy said lerner hadn't loaded the debt it took to buy villa back onto the club.
[/quote]
He bought the club for 60m, he then loaned it 95m. He receives 5m a year back in interest on that 95m, plus 7.7m in "management fees".
Nearly 13m was directly taken out of the club by the owner. He's doing it differently but Villa are paying.
[/quote]
is there no integrity left in the world? well, villa are still better off then we are.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39787.msg1087054#msg1087054 date=1271090735]
They're heading for a fall very soon.
[/quote]
in the same way chelsea is? i.e. the owner calls in his loan?
They're heading for a fall very soon.
[/quote]
in the same way chelsea is? i.e. the owner calls in his loan?
Their wage bill is about 85% of turnover. They're season ticket sales have declined. Their spending is funded by Lerner rather than the club itself at the moment.
The strategy is geared towards making them a CL club, but by the time they do qualify for it they'll be ineligible for the CL thanks to the new rules on the financial side of things being brought in by UEFA.
The strategy is geared towards making them a CL club, but by the time they do qualify for it they'll be ineligible for the CL thanks to the new rules on the financial side of things being brought in by UEFA.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39787.msg1087068#msg1087068 date=1271091588]
Their wage bill is about 85% of turnover. They're season ticket sales have declined. Their spending is funded by Lerner rather than the club itself at the moment.
The strategy is geared towards making them a CL club, but by the time they do qualify for it they'll be ineligible for the CL thanks to the new rules on the financial side of things being brought in by UEFA.
[/quote]
ouch.
Their wage bill is about 85% of turnover. They're season ticket sales have declined. Their spending is funded by Lerner rather than the club itself at the moment.
The strategy is geared towards making them a CL club, but by the time they do qualify for it they'll be ineligible for the CL thanks to the new rules on the financial side of things being brought in by UEFA.
[/quote]
ouch.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39787.msg1087068#msg1087068 date=1271091588]
Their wage bill is about 85% of turnover. They're season ticket sales have declined. Their spending is funded by Lerner rather than the club itself at the moment.
The strategy is geared towards making them a CL club, but by the time they do qualify for it they'll be ineligible for the CL thanks to the new rules on the financial side of things being brought in by UEFA.
[/quote]
call me naive, but at least he seems to be trying...doesn't he? i don't really see the doomsday scenario - it's his club, so if he withdraws his support & villa suffer, then his investment also suffers, right? the worst that seems likely to happen is they have to tighten their belts and go back to being a midtable club...but at least they're no worse off than when they started.
to me it seems much better to be in hock to your owner than a disinterested bank.
Their wage bill is about 85% of turnover. They're season ticket sales have declined. Their spending is funded by Lerner rather than the club itself at the moment.
The strategy is geared towards making them a CL club, but by the time they do qualify for it they'll be ineligible for the CL thanks to the new rules on the financial side of things being brought in by UEFA.
[/quote]
call me naive, but at least he seems to be trying...doesn't he? i don't really see the doomsday scenario - it's his club, so if he withdraws his support & villa suffer, then his investment also suffers, right? the worst that seems likely to happen is they have to tighten their belts and go back to being a midtable club...but at least they're no worse off than when they started.
to me it seems much better to be in hock to your owner than a disinterested bank.
fair enough. but 'they're heading for a fall very soon' sounded a bit ominous to me!
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