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Are Liverpool FC re-inventing football?

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[quote author=Brendan link=topic=32976.msg850897#msg850897 date=1240416840]
[quote author=Roopy link=topic=32976.msg850894#msg850894 date=1240416424]
We're scoring goals, which is great to see.

But we are not re-inventing football.

We are merely playing football as it should be played, and how we used to play it in our pomp.

[/quote]

What the fuck are you TALKING about?

What fucking pomp do you recall when we conceded 8 goals in two games?

Go away.
[/quote]

I meant in an attacking sense - much more intricate.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=32976.msg850902#msg850902 date=1240417478]
Intricate?
[/quote]

Intricate - having many interrelated parts or facets involved.

EG: We are more intricate in that other just giving the ball to Gerrard and expecting something from him and Torres .... we are trying more things that are beginning to click - like Benayoun being involved in play in and around the box ... deft through balls to get behind defences.
 
That's bollocks Rupert.

We simply had Kuyt and Benny playing very well last night.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=32976.msg850785#msg850785 date=1240407624]
29 12

There seems to be some confusion here.
Since we lost to 'boro we have scored 29 goals and conceded 12 in nine games, seven of those goals against Chelsea in the CL and four against Arsenal last night the other single goal was from when we battered United.
We have kept clean sheets in five of them.
Before everyone gets completely hysterical about our playing style let us just look at the games we conceded the goals in
United, well to concede one goal against them is pretty fucking good , no complaints there
Chelsea home CL. Chelsea were on fire that night no team could have lived with them and we ended up chasing the game.
Chelsea away. We had to throw caution to the wind there was no alternative.
Arsenal, individual errors and chasing the game cost us goals, it was not any sort of gung-ho spirit.
We have just found that if we play with a high tempo guts and keep going at teams we can score goals.
The above does not constitute a completely different approach.
regards
[/quote]

It seems to me that the confusion lies with you.

I haven't read all the posts today, but based on what I have read, I don't see any crazy hysteria. The defence hasn't looked quite right all season, despite the good record, and in recent games crumbled under pressure.

As I said in earlier posts, we have found nothing new. We've always known that if we play to a high tempo with passion, we can overwhelm any opposition. We've done it before. Numerous times.
 
I don't think we're even reinventing Rafa - we're simply transposing our first 20 minutes of a European game style into 90 minutes of a league game.

Exciting, but nerve-wracking to say the least
 
Which is exactly how we used to do it.

We talk about those beautiful games like when we butchered Forest and Spurs, but the bulk of our wins was by grinding our opponents into dust slowly.

I think we all love to see us playing good football, and from a neutral's point of view that makes sense.

Problem is none of us are neutral.

We just want to win things.
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=32976.msg851195#msg851195 date=1240459888]
Which is exactly how we used to do it.

We talk about those beautiful games like when we butchered Forest and Spurs, but the bulk of our wins was by grinding our opponents into dust slowly.

I think we all love to see us playing good football, and from a neutral's point of view that makes sense.

Problem is none of us are neutral.

We just want to win things.


[/quote]
And that is exactly my point.

When we'll win no. 19 it will be in a completely different style than compared to the old glory days. Will still grind our opponents thoroughly but we'll do so mostly whilst scoring 4 goals instead of 1. That's my guess.

I'm not trying to advocate what is better - a title is a title - but recent weeks has convinced me that we're on to something very good here. I simply can't see us go back to our 1-nil-safety-first-style-of-play again, at least not as the most common scenario. Here's hoping anyways.

A few years back a lot of posters were bemoaning our lack of attacking-intent and now it seems some of them has already had enough. It's a funny little world isn't it?
 
While we have never played the most alluring football, this talk of us grinding out results in the old days is a bit off. We certainly saw out games and put them to bed but we also played better football than we have at times this season (during games like Stoke, West Ham, Fulham, Portsmouth, all of which were extremely (IMO needlessly) dreary games), we may not have set the world of football alight every week but the simple pass and move game we had in the 60s and 70s was often far more satisfying to watch even when it did result in 1-0 scores a lot.

There is a balance to be had between attacking and defending (both of which I think we can do as well as anybody in the world when we are in form) but, as long as we at least go for a game (unlike the ones above where we lacked any sort of creativity and enthusiasm for the game) then I think the vast majority of fans will be happy.
We need to stop pissing away leads like we have been though.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=32976.msg850945#msg850945 date=1240424392]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=32976.msg850785#msg850785 date=1240407624]
29 12

There seems to be some confusion here.
Since we lost to 'boro we have scored 29 goals and conceded 12 in nine games, seven of those goals against Chelsea in the CL and four against Arsenal last night the other single goal was from when we battered United.
We have kept clean sheets in five of them.
Before everyone gets completely hysterical about our playing style let us just look at the games we conceded the goals in
United, well to concede one goal against them is pretty fucking good , no complaints there
Chelsea home CL. Chelsea were on fire that night no team could have lived with them and we ended up chasing the game.
Chelsea away. We had to throw caution to the wind there was no alternative.
Arsenal, individual errors and chasing the game cost us goals, it was not any sort of gung-ho spirit.
We have just found that if we play with a high tempo guts and keep going at teams we can score goals.
The above does not constitute a completely different approach.
regards
[/quote]

It seems to me that the confusion lies with you.

I haven't read all the posts today, but based on what I have read, I don't see any crazy hysteria. The defence hasn't looked quite right all season, despite the good record, and in recent games crumbled under pressure.

As I said in earlier posts, we have found nothing new. We've always known that if we play to a high tempo with passion, we can overwhelm any opposition. We've done it before. Numerous times.
[/quote] "the confusion lies with you"? Oh do fuck off Ken.
Perhaps you had better read all the posts, and re-read mine, and you might get the right gist.
No one mentioned "crazy hysteria" either.

My point is/was that people and indeed the thread itself are suggesting we have come up with a new playing style and/or throwing caution to the wind to purely outscore the opposition, which is not the case as I think you are agreeing to.

Can we make a bit of an agreement to avoid/ignore each other as much as we can, as obviously we don't see eye to eye, agree on very little, and seem to annoy each other immensely, well I can only speak from my perspective, but I assume it is mutual.


regards
 
I had a chat with me good old dad last night about Liverpool and he was quite simply impressed with the way we're playing these days let alone our overall approach of the game. Actually he was of the opinion that we are the most entertaining team in Europe at this stage because of the sheer ammount of pressure and closing-down all over the pitch we're applying and he wouldn't even begrudge us winning the Premiership come May.

Believe me when I say that he's been one of Liverpool worst critics over the past years because of my often uncritical praise, so those words coming from his mouth is a big thing. At least for me.

He remkarked a thing with regards to Kuyt and Yossi claiming that they are probably the unsung heroes of our style of play because without their insatiable workeffort and shrewd footballing-intelligence we'd struggle to make the space needed to e.g. Torres, Alonso and Gerrard and keep mounting pressure.

That made me think about Rafa's urge to sign those players in the first place. He knew we hadn't got the spending power of our fiercest opponents and he knew what kind of football-team he'd create. When we bought Kuyt I knew very little of him but it was clear that he wasn't exactly the pacey striker I was hoping for back then. Instead we got ourselves a hard-working no-nonsense forward who was often finding himself beeing criticized for his sometimes obvious flaws. When we brought in Yossi I wasn't particularly impressed either. Another hard-working little player with decent skills on the ball and an eye for the goal - but probably not in the standards of a club like Liverpool.

I'm now of a completely different oppinion. The likes of Yossi and Kuyt are exactly what makes Liverpool anno 2009 tick. Without those no-nonsense players who are first and foremost following the gaffers orders we'd not see the best of Gerrard in his new free role or Alonso blossoming in central midfield or even Torres in attack, as he'd then would've had to spend more energy whilst chasing and closing-down opponents himself. Thanks to his committed teammates who are always willing to make sacrifice and the managers tactical awareness he can concentrate on delivering the goals and we are seeing some of the best football in Anfield in many, many years.

I can't see any of Kuyt or Yossi step into any other top-teams first eleven these days but on the other hand it's getting more and more difficult for me to mention anyone I'd rather see play in our famous red than those two brilliant, hard-working footballing-gems.

This all because of Liverpool's different style of play compared to any other top-team in the world. We are indeed setting new standards.
 
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=32976.msg854460#msg854460 date=1240910804]
I had a chat with me good old dad last night about Liverpool and he was quite simply impressed with the way we're playing these days let alone our overall approach of the game. Actually he was of the opinion that we are the most entertaining team in Europe at this stage because of the sheer ammount of pressure and closing-down all over the pitch we're applying and he wouldn't even begrudge us winning the Premiership come May.

Believe me when I say that he's been one of Liverpool worst critics over the past years because of my often uncritical praise, so those words coming from his mouth is a big thing. At least for me.

He remkarked a thing with regards to Kuyt and Yossi claiming that they are probably the unsung heroes of our style of play because without their insatiable workeffort and shrewd footballing-intelligence we'd struggle to make the space needed to e.g. Torres, Alonso and Gerrard and keep mounting pressure.

That made me think about Rafa's urge to sign those players in the first place. He knew we hadn't got the spending power of our fiercest opponents and he knew what kind of football-team he'd create. When we bought Kuyt I knew very little of him but it was clear that he wasn't exactly the pacey striker I was hoping for back then. Instead we got ourselves a hard-working no-nonsense forward who was often finding himself beeing criticized for his sometimes obvious flaws. When we brought in Yossi I wasn't particularly impressed either. Another hard-working little player with decent skills on the ball and an eye for the goal - but probably not in the standards of a club like Liverpool.

I'm now of a completely different oppinion. The likes of Yossi and Kuyt are exactly what makes Liverpool anno 2009 tick. Without those no-nonsense players who are first and foremost following the gaffers orders we'd not see the best of Gerrard in his new free role or Alonso blossoming in central midfield or even Torres in attack, as he'd then would've had to spend more energy whilst chasing and closing-down opponents himself. Thanks to his committed teammates who are always willing to make sacrifice and the managers tactical awareness he can concentrate on delivering the goals and we are seeing some of the best football in Anfield in many, many years.

I can't see any of Kuyt or Yossi step into any other top-teams first eleven these days but on the other hand it's getting more and more difficult for me to mention anyone I'd rather see play in our famous red than those two brilliant, hard-working footballing-gems.

This all because of Liverpool's different style of play compared to any other top-team in the world. We are indeed setting new standards.
[/quote]

-------------Torres-------------
Ronaldo---Gerrard----Messi
 
[quote author=moondog link=topic=32976.msg854465#msg854465 date=1240910937]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=32976.msg854460#msg854460 date=1240910804]
I had a chat with me good old dad last night about Liverpool and he was quite simply impressed with the way we're playing these days let alone our overall approach of the game. Actually he was of the opinion that we are the most entertaining team in Europe at this stage because of the sheer ammount of pressure and closing-down all over the pitch we're applying and he wouldn't even begrudge us winning the Premiership come May.

Believe me when I say that he's been one of Liverpool worst critics over the past years because of my often uncritical praise, so those words coming from his mouth is a big thing. At least for me.

He remkarked a thing with regards to Kuyt and Yossi claiming that they are probably the unsung heroes of our style of play because without their insatiable workeffort and shrewd footballing-intelligence we'd struggle to make the space needed to e.g. Torres, Alonso and Gerrard and keep mounting pressure.

That made me think about Rafa's urge to sign those players in the first place. He knew we hadn't got the spending power of our fiercest opponents and he knew what kind of football-team he'd create. When we bought Kuyt I knew very little of him but it was clear that he wasn't exactly the pacey striker I was hoping for back then. Instead we got ourselves a hard-working no-nonsense forward who was often finding himself beeing criticized for his sometimes obvious flaws. When we brought in Yossi I wasn't particularly impressed either. Another hard-working little player with decent skills on the ball and an eye for the goal - but probably not in the standards of a club like Liverpool.

I'm now of a completely different oppinion. The likes of Yossi and Kuyt are exactly what makes Liverpool anno 2009 tick. Without those no-nonsense players who are first and foremost following the gaffers orders we'd not see the best of Gerrard in his new free role or Alonso blossoming in central midfield or even Torres in attack, as he'd then would've had to spend more energy whilst chasing and closing-down opponents himself. Thanks to his committed teammates who are always willing to make sacrifice and the managers tactical awareness he can concentrate on delivering the goals and we are seeing some of the best football in Anfield in many, many years.

I can't see any of Kuyt or Yossi step into any other top-teams first eleven these days but on the other hand it's getting more and more difficult for me to mention anyone I'd rather see play in our famous red than those two brilliant, hard-working footballing-gems. Key-word beeing difficult.

This all because of Liverpool's different style of play compared to any other top-team in the world. We are indeed setting new standards.
[/quote]

-------------Torres-------------
Ronaldo---Gerrard----Messi
[/quote]
 
[quote author=moondog link=topic=32976.msg854476#msg854476 date=1240911704]
Was just messing.
[/quote]
I KNEW IT!
 
This all because of Liverpool's different style of play compared to any other top-team in the world. We are indeed setting new standards.
Click to expand...

What about Barcelona who have a ridiculous amount of attacking talent yet place a clear emphasis on pressing the opposition and regaining possession as quickly as possible?
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=32976.msg854500#msg854500 date=1240913663]
This all because of Liverpool's different style of play compared to any other top-team in the world. We are indeed setting new standards.
Click to expand...

What about Barcelona who have a ridiculous amount of attacking talent yet place a clear emphasis on pressing the opposition and regaining possession as quickly as possible?
[/quote]
To be fair I haven't seen Barca play that much this Season so of course you could be right in terms on them playing very much in the same way as us but I don't think that tell's the whole story.

When I've seen them they are brilliant when going forward. Probably the best their is. The link-up play between Messi and Iniesta in particular is phenomenal at the moment and simply awesome to watch.

That said there are a very big hairy butt lurking in the shades with regards to Barca's seemingly phenomenal play.

The overall standard of La Liga this term. It's downright poor.

I've watched 8th placed Deportivo loose out 6 goals to 1 in aggregate score to 5th placed Danish League-side Aalborg a few months ago. Real and Barca are rarely beeing tested it seems and you'd have to take that into consideration as it makes them look far better than they are.

One of Barca's first real stern tests will be tonight against Chelsea and I'm not sure you'll see them attack in the way we choosed to attack the Chavs at Anfield (albeit without much luck on the night).

If we were indeed part of La Liga at this very moment I'd say that we would've outscored Barca. Easily even as I can't see any team downthere manage to keep track at all. We are not as beautiful to watch as Barca in top gear but we're just as entertaining in our own new way.
 
The point you raised about the standard of opposition is very true, but if we're simply talking about style of play - which I believe we are - it's irrelevant.
 
It will be interesting to see Barca against Chelsea though. If the Chavs can play at Camp Nou the way they played at Anfield, they could win this tie.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=32976.msg854507#msg854507 date=1240914675]
The point you raised about the standard of opposition is very true, but if we're simply talking about style of play - which I believe we are - it's irrelevant.
[/quote]

Barca are playing in a beautiful, technical-sound and intelligent way and they are keeping the ball moving around at high pace whilst having a player like Messi who can always do the unthinkable. They are a bit like Arsenal at their peak with Henry and Bergkamp playing I'd say.

If their opponents were better matched though they'd have to rethink their style a bit as I reckon tonights game against Chelsea will show. I can't see Barca coming out of the block as we've done many times of late. They know the physical aspect will suddenly hamper their options and they'll try to keep the ball moving fast but without psuhing forward in numbers.

Barca's director cheered for Chelsea in the game against us as they'd prefer to avoid the menace that is Liverpool FC. There's a very good reason and one beeing the sheer ammount of high-pressure and committment all over the pitch ever since the Real-game.

They know Chelsea will be less adventurous in their approach. They've got loads of quality but they are not utlized the same way that we are using the quality within our squad. I can't think of any team in the world right now who can keep tempo up as we do for the whole 90 minutes. Take a look at the Arsenal game again mate if you doubt me.

We're not like Barca and they are certainly not like us.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=32976.msg854514#msg854514 date=1240915253]
It will be interesting to see Barca against Chelsea though. If the Chavs can play at Camp Nou the way they played at Anfield, they could win this tie.

[/quote]
I'm affraid so. It will be very interesting to watch indeed.

COME ON YOU BARCA
 
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=32976.msg854516#msg854516 date=1240915316]
They know Chelsea will be less adventurous in their approach. They've got loads of quality but they are not utlized the same way that we are using the quality within our squad. I can't think of any team in the world right now who can keep tempo up as we do for the whole 90 minutes. Take a look at the Arsenal game again mate if you doubt me.

We're not like Barca and they are certainly not like us.
[/quote]

What if I prefer to look at the Hull game instead?

Did we play with a ridiculously high tempo over the course of the 90mins in that game?
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=32976.msg854547#msg854547 date=1240917519]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=32976.msg854516#msg854516 date=1240915316]
They know Chelsea will be less adventurous in their approach. They've got loads of quality but they are not utlized the same way that we are using the quality within our squad. I can't think of any team in the world right now who can keep tempo up as we do for the whole 90 minutes. Take a look at the Arsenal game again mate if you doubt me.

We're not like Barca and they are certainly not like us.
[/quote]

What if I prefer to look at the Hull game instead?

Did we play with a ridiculously high tempo over the course of the 90mins in that game?


[/quote]
Of course we won't be able to apply that gameplan every single time we play. It has got to leave it's mark on our players having to endure a game like the Arsenal-one.

We are capable of doing it though and I can't think of any other team in the world developed the high pressure-game as thorough as we've of late.

Barca was quite bad in the weekend wasn't they? So if you're not seriously suggesting that they are ALWAYS at the top of their game your argument with reagrds to the Hull game seems void.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=32976.msg854580#msg854580 date=1240919076]

Can we win the league first please. By route one football if necessary
[/quote]
Of course we can.

Whether it'll be this season is a bit blurry though.

The Mancs are looking at a far more difficult set of remaining fixtures than we are though.

Apart from the their double-tie against the Arsenal in the ChL, which will tire them up, they'll have to beat them as home as well as local rivals City.

Middlesbrough, Wigan and Hull away are going to be stern tests as well. I can see them drop enough points to bring us back in it.

From the official;

The top two's remaining fixtures:

May 2 (12.45pm): Middlesbrough v United

May 3 (1.30pm): Liverpool v Newcastle

May 9 (5.30pm): West Ham v Liverpool

May 10 (1.30pm): United v Man City

May 13 (8pm): Wigan v United

May 16 (12.45pm): United v Arsenal

May 17 (1.30pm): West Brom v Liverpool

May 24 (4pm): Hull v United

May 24 (4pm): Liverpool v Tottenham
 
[quote author=Terrier link=topic=32976.msg1036335#msg1036335 date=1263716533]
LOL.....fuck me.

This post is a cracker.
[/quote]

Point? ???

At the time we were playing fucking excellent football.
 
Prefer another Rafa is a cunt thread?

Classic forum hyperbole at its best! "Re-inventing football......"


I tell you what though, I'd rather we conceded 4 a game and won each by 5 - then watch some of the utter shite this season.
 
[quote author=Terrier link=topic=32976.msg1036338#msg1036338 date=1263717048]
Prefer another Rafa is a cunt thread?

Classic forum hyperbole at its best! "Re-inventing football......"


I tell you what though, I'd rather we conceded 4 a game and won each by 5 - then watch some of the utter shite this season.



[/quote]

Errr... I just don't understand the hindsight and the piss taking of the post. At the time it was true.
 
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