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And here's to you Mr Robertson

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The thing is, from that first game in the cup v Everton VVD was on Karius's case, telling him to come for balls and so on. Perhaps with Ming being a senior pro neither VVD nor Ming would be comfortable with Virgil occupying this very obvious commanding role? Karius is young enough to accept being bossed around, whilst mentally, Ming would not respond well to it? Just a guess like, but it may have something in it.

Ming looks exactly the sort of person who wouldn't object to being bossed around.
 
Ming looks exactly the sort of person who wouldn't object to being bossed around.
Here's a pic of Ming chilling out in his leisure time.
emeric_hogtied3.jpg
 
Ming looks exactly the sort of person who wouldn't object to being bossed around.

I know what you mean but, based on what he's said publicly, I'd put it slightly differently. To me it looks as though he's the kind of person whose demeanour invites being bossed about but who in fact does object to it, inwardly at least. Unfortunately for him (and us) he's not quite good enough to prevent it happening, so he and by extension the defence in front of him both end up out of sorts. I would therefore move him on because, though I think he's good enough to be our no.2, I don't think he'll be able to reconcile himself to the role.
 
That strikes me as massively odd.

Surely the mentality of both keepers behind VVD, or without VVD, would be similar?

Neither seem the most assured, so both would benefit from a commanding centre back.

Maybe karius is younger and klopp likes him, so protected him from the fans?

Yes, I'm not sure how much truth is in it, but the suggestion was that Klopp wanted to rebuild the foundations of the back four by bringing in a new keeper and CB, but when that was postponed he settled in the short term with the set up that was more familiar.
 
It was music to Andy Robertson’s ears.
The Liverpool left-back had just delivered the pin-point cross for Sadio Mane to wrap up the points against West Ham when the Kop broke into song.

The sound of the Scotland international’s name echoing around Anfield is becoming a regular occurrence during a debut season to savour.
“It’s an unbelievable feeling to have that relationship with the fans,” Robertson told the ECHO.
“To hear them singing your name, it gives you a wee bit of a lift. I’m grateful for how they have welcomed me.
“You want your fans to be on side. I feel like they have taken to me and I’ve taken to them quite quickly.”
Some players spend years trying to prove they belong at Liverpool but the £10million signing from Hull City has taken the fast-track to achieving adulation.
His attacking style is perfect for Jurgen Klopp’s blueprint and supporters admire the graft and commitment of the tough-tackling Glasgow-born defender.
“I might not have the best of games every now and again, but I always leave everything out there,” he said.
“Whether things are coming off and whether I’m finding people with my crosses, I always give 100% - that’s the way I’ve been since I was a kid.
“It’s no secret that my family and I used to go and watch Celtic at home. I’ve always had that passion for football in me. That’s not changed from being at Queens Park, Dundee United, Hull or Liverpool. Wherever I’ve been, I’ve given my all.
“I think Liverpool fans maybe enjoy seeing that work rate. As a team we are all working incredibly hard and that’s enabling us to produce performances the fans can enjoy.”
Robertson took a different route to Anfield than any of his team-mates. Released by Celtic at the age of 15, he made his senior debut for Scottish Third Division outfit Queen’s Park against Berwick Rangers at the age of 18 in 2012 in front of a crowd of just 372.
He worked in the offices at Hampden Park taking ticket orders over the phone before a move to Dundee United realised his dream of turning professional and his career took off. He’s had to fight for everything.
“There is no easy way to becoming a professional footballer whether you go through the youth ranks at a club or the route I went,” he said.
“I enjoyed my route. I’ve played at some good grounds and some not so good grounds! I’ve met some great people along the way.

robertsonklopp.jpg

Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp celebrates with Andrew Robertson after the Premier League match at Anfield, Martin Rickett/PA Wire.
“It makes you appreciate every step you make. Whether it was my first contract at Dundee United or now playing for this great club. I’ve always appreciated it and appreciated the people around me. I think that stands me in good stead.”
Initially, Robertson had to be patient after joining Liverpool last July. The 23-year-old found himself as back-up to a resurgent Alberto Moreno as he adjusted to the demands of life at Melwood. He spoke to Klopp about what he needed to do to force his way in.
Moreno’s ankle injury in early December opened the door for him and over the past three months he has gone from strength to strength - starting 13 of the last 14 Premier League games and making an eye-catching Champions League bow in the 5-0 thrashing of Porto.

“In the first couple of months I had a few games but it was a frustrating time,” he admitted.
“I only spoke to the manager once and that was enough. He told me what I needed to work on and where I needed to improve.
“I knew that anyway, coming from Hull, a team that defends a lot for 90 minutes and tries to hang on to results rather than trying to go and get results. It’s a big difference.
“Don’t get me wrong, in the first few months I felt like I was ready to play more than I did but Alberto was playing well and the team was winning so it was hard to argue.
“I just gave everything in training and after an unfortunate circumstance with Alberto getting injured, I got my chance. It took me a wee bit of time to get into the rhythm and get my confidence back. But since then I haven’t looked back.
“Alberto is back to full fitness now. I feel that we’ve got two really good players fighting for one position so it’s a good competition.”
It’s a similar story on the other flank where teenager Trent Alexander-Arnold has shone in recent weeks. Klopp also has Joe Gomez and a fit again Nathaniel Clyne both eyeing a recall.
“Trent’s last few performances have been different class,” Robertson said.
“The quality of the balls he puts in and the defending for a player so young is unbelievable. The experience he’s gaining will stand him in good stead for a long and successful career.
“Joe Gomez is another fantastic player and he’s played a lot of games at right-back this season. With Clyney coming back, there’s real depth there.”
It’s also been a life-changing season for Robertson off the field. His partner Rachel gave birth to their son Rocco back in August.
“Having a kid gives you so many more responsibilities,” he said.
“My girlfriend and I are just obsessed with him really. The way we watch him grow day to day, how big he’s getting and the awareness he’s got.
“He’s a wee bit of a pain in the backside just now! He keeps trying to stand up! It’s great when he laughs, you can’t help but smile at him.
“He was six months old this week. I can’t imagine my life without him now. It’s the greatest feeling in the world and we’ve loved the experience so far.”
Family has always been hugely important to Robertson, who owes a debt of gratitude to his parents for the support they gave him as he went in pursuit of his dreams.
It’s being repaid with the satisfaction they are getting from their regular trips to Anfield from their home in East Renfrewshire, south of Glasgow.

Robbb.jpg

Andrew Robertson arrives for the visit of Swansea.
“My mum, my dad and my brother Stephen come down to most home games, although they probably won’t make it for the Newcastle game this weekend as they’re snowed in,” he said.
“They love coming to watch. I like to think I’m rewarding them as such for all the dedication and patience they showed with me.
“I know it’s a great feeling for them to sit at Anfield watching their son play. My girlfriend and my son come to the games too. It’s great going into the lounge after a game and seeing how happy they all are.
“My girlfriend’s family are adopted Reds now too. They have taken to the club and the city as much as I have.”
Relegated with Hull City last May, Robertson is now a regular in a free-scoring Liverpool side chasing a top-four Premier League finish and Champions League glory.
Match of the Day pundit Alan Shearer described him as the “best player on the pitch” against West Ham last weekend.
“It’s always nice to get those kind of compliments, especially off a player who achieved as much in his career as Alan," he added.
"Every game I feel like I’m getting more and more confident. We all make mistakes but it’s how you learn from them and I feel like I’m doing that game by game. This is definitely the most I’ve ever enjoyed my football."
Having toiled so hard to get this far, there's no danger of Robertson resting on his laurels.
"There will be a time in the future when I look back and think ‘I played for Liverpool’ - one of the biggest clubs in the world," he said.
"But for now I’m just thinking about helping this team carry the momentum forward.
"I’m playing in a great team which is enjoying a good run of form. We’re winning games, scoring plenty of goals and keeping it tight at the back so hopefully it continues like this until the end of the season and beyond. "We are right in the thick of it this season but we want to keep firing on all cylinders in the Premier League and the Champions League."There’s still a lot we can improve on but it feels like we’re getting better and better and I'm loving being part of that."
 
It was music to Andy Robertson’s ears.
The Liverpool left-back had just delivered the pin-point cross for Sadio Mane to wrap up the points against West Ham when the Kop broke into song.

The sound of the Scotland international’s name echoing around Anfield is becoming a regular occurrence during a debut season to savour.
“It’s an unbelievable feeling to have that relationship with the fans,” Robertson told the ECHO.
“To hear them singing your name, it gives you a wee bit of a lift. I’m grateful for how they have welcomed me.
“You want your fans to be on side. I feel like they have taken to me and I’ve taken to them quite quickly.”
Some players spend years trying to prove they belong at Liverpool but the £10million signing from Hull City has taken the fast-track to achieving adulation.
His attacking style is perfect for Jurgen Klopp’s blueprint and supporters admire the graft and commitment of the tough-tackling Glasgow-born defender.
“I might not have the best of games every now and again, but I always leave everything out there,” he said.
“Whether things are coming off and whether I’m finding people with my crosses, I always give 100% - that’s the way I’ve been since I was a kid.
“It’s no secret that my family and I used to go and watch Celtic at home. I’ve always had that passion for football in me. That’s not changed from being at Queens Park, Dundee United, Hull or Liverpool. Wherever I’ve been, I’ve given my all.
“I think Liverpool fans maybe enjoy seeing that work rate. As a team we are all working incredibly hard and that’s enabling us to produce performances the fans can enjoy.”
Robertson took a different route to Anfield than any of his team-mates. Released by Celtic at the age of 15, he made his senior debut for Scottish Third Division outfit Queen’s Park against Berwick Rangers at the age of 18 in 2012 in front of a crowd of just 372.
He worked in the offices at Hampden Park taking ticket orders over the phone before a move to Dundee United realised his dream of turning professional and his career took off. He’s had to fight for everything.
“There is no easy way to becoming a professional footballer whether you go through the youth ranks at a club or the route I went,” he said.
“I enjoyed my route. I’ve played at some good grounds and some not so good grounds! I’ve met some great people along the way.

robertsonklopp.jpg

Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp celebrates with Andrew Robertson after the Premier League match at Anfield, Martin Rickett/PA Wire.
“It makes you appreciate every step you make. Whether it was my first contract at Dundee United or now playing for this great club. I’ve always appreciated it and appreciated the people around me. I think that stands me in good stead.”
Initially, Robertson had to be patient after joining Liverpool last July. The 23-year-old found himself as back-up to a resurgent Alberto Moreno as he adjusted to the demands of life at Melwood. He spoke to Klopp about what he needed to do to force his way in.
Moreno’s ankle injury in early December opened the door for him and over the past three months he has gone from strength to strength - starting 13 of the last 14 Premier League games and making an eye-catching Champions League bow in the 5-0 thrashing of Porto.

“In the first couple of months I had a few games but it was a frustrating time,” he admitted.
“I only spoke to the manager once and that was enough. He told me what I needed to work on and where I needed to improve.
“I knew that anyway, coming from Hull, a team that defends a lot for 90 minutes and tries to hang on to results rather than trying to go and get results. It’s a big difference.
“Don’t get me wrong, in the first few months I felt like I was ready to play more than I did but Alberto was playing well and the team was winning so it was hard to argue.
“I just gave everything in training and after an unfortunate circumstance with Alberto getting injured, I got my chance. It took me a wee bit of time to get into the rhythm and get my confidence back. But since then I haven’t looked back.
“Alberto is back to full fitness now. I feel that we’ve got two really good players fighting for one position so it’s a good competition.”
It’s a similar story on the other flank where teenager Trent Alexander-Arnold has shone in recent weeks. Klopp also has Joe Gomez and a fit again Nathaniel Clyne both eyeing a recall.
“Trent’s last few performances have been different class,” Robertson said.
“The quality of the balls he puts in and the defending for a player so young is unbelievable. The experience he’s gaining will stand him in good stead for a long and successful career.
“Joe Gomez is another fantastic player and he’s played a lot of games at right-back this season. With Clyney coming back, there’s real depth there.”
It’s also been a life-changing season for Robertson off the field. His partner Rachel gave birth to their son Rocco back in August.
“Having a kid gives you so many more responsibilities,” he said.
“My girlfriend and I are just obsessed with him really. The way we watch him grow day to day, how big he’s getting and the awareness he’s got.
“He’s a wee bit of a pain in the backside just now! He keeps trying to stand up! It’s great when he laughs, you can’t help but smile at him.
“He was six months old this week. I can’t imagine my life without him now. It’s the greatest feeling in the world and we’ve loved the experience so far.”
Family has always been hugely important to Robertson, who owes a debt of gratitude to his parents for the support they gave him as he went in pursuit of his dreams.
It’s being repaid with the satisfaction they are getting from their regular trips to Anfield from their home in East Renfrewshire, south of Glasgow.

Robbb.jpg

Andrew Robertson arrives for the visit of Swansea.
“My mum, my dad and my brother Stephen come down to most home games, although they probably won’t make it for the Newcastle game this weekend as they’re snowed in,” he said.
“They love coming to watch. I like to think I’m rewarding them as such for all the dedication and patience they showed with me.
“I know it’s a great feeling for them to sit at Anfield watching their son play. My girlfriend and my son come to the games too. It’s great going into the lounge after a game and seeing how happy they all are.
“My girlfriend’s family are adopted Reds now too. They have taken to the club and the city as much as I have.”
Relegated with Hull City last May, Robertson is now a regular in a free-scoring Liverpool side chasing a top-four Premier League finish and Champions League glory.
Match of the Day pundit Alan Shearer described him as the “best player on the pitch” against West Ham last weekend.
“It’s always nice to get those kind of compliments, especially off a player who achieved as much in his career as Alan," he added.
"Every game I feel like I’m getting more and more confident. We all make mistakes but it’s how you learn from them and I feel like I’m doing that game by game. This is definitely the most I’ve ever enjoyed my football."
Having toiled so hard to get this far, there's no danger of Robertson resting on his laurels.
"There will be a time in the future when I look back and think ‘I played for Liverpool’ - one of the biggest clubs in the world," he said.
"But for now I’m just thinking about helping this team carry the momentum forward.
"I’m playing in a great team which is enjoying a good run of form. We’re winning games, scoring plenty of goals and keeping it tight at the back so hopefully it continues like this until the end of the season and beyond. "We are right in the thick of it this season but we want to keep firing on all cylinders in the Premier League and the Champions League."There’s still a lot we can improve on but it feels like we’re getting better and better and I'm loving being part of that."
I fucking love the lad. What a great interview.
 
I fucking love the lad. What a great interview.

Yeah. I Guess I wasn't alone being a bit uninspired by this signing, but he has impressed me every time he got the chance to play. And being a sound character off the Pitch showes we have done a very good signing for a moderate sum of money.
 
I judged the signing, completely wrongly, on the basis of Hull forums where they were slagging him off. In hindsight, more than half of our posters were saying how shite Sterling was when we sold him. Footy fans talk shite.
 
That strikes me as massively odd.

Surely the mentality of both keepers behind VVD, or without VVD, would be similar?

Neither seem the most assured, so both would benefit from a commanding centre back.

Maybe karius is younger and klopp likes him, so protected him from the fans?

I always thought that made sense myself, our defence was a fucking shambles, Klopp obv (& correctly) believed that VVD would go a long way to fixing that, & a young keeper coming in behind a stable defence, & also behind a CB who is prepared to shout at him & organise things for him, makes it so much easier.

I think Mignolet would have improved behind him too, but it's highly doubtful he'd have suddenly changed that mentality of his that turned him into a world class clown for a few games whenever he made an error, so why not give who he believes is the better of the two & more long term prospect the benefit of it.
 
I judged the signing, completely wrongly, on the basis of Hull forums where they were slagging him off. In hindsight, more than half of our posters were saying how shite Sterling was when we sold him. Footy fans talk shite.

Yep. I saw a brief comment earlier comparing Kolasniak (sp?) in Arsenal as a flop compared to Robertson, and rightly so based on the performances. But it doesn't automatically say that they would perform equal if opposit transfers had happened in the summer. We have had a good steady progress under Klopp, while Arsenal look a right mess this season in a steady decline based on last seasons. There is no guarantee Robertson would have felt confident, got an attacking role and actually played well for Arsenal. We see the same on the Full backs alterning the other side. They have a certain talent and skillset, but they are given a good role in the team to develop within. I really like the fact that players coming to us now seem to make a step up whereas those going to Arse and scum in particular seem to not improve as they progress.
 
I always thought that made sense myself, our defence was a fucking shambles, Klopp obv (& correctly) believed that VVD would go a long way to fixing that, & a young keeper coming in behind a stable defence, & also behind a CB who is prepared to shout at him & organise things for him, makes it so much easier.

I think Mignolet would have improved behind him too, but it's highly doubtful he'd have suddenly changed that mentality of his that turned him into a world class clown for a few games whenever he made an error, so why not give who he believes is the better of the two & more long term prospect the benefit of it.

Another factor here is that if Karius was ever to have a chance of proving himself, these months was the alternative. Mignolet spent most of the season so far to prove he was not going to be the dominating number one anyway, so giving Karius the chance now was probably the only correct thing to do in the long run. He has obviously been helped by VVD but I believe he would have got his chance anyway based on Ming's season so far.
 
Possibly, but based on previous performance I'm not at all sure he'd have made it count. Van Dijk's arrival was always going to be crucial for whichever of the two keepers held the jersey at the time.
 
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