Americans appreciation thread.
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C
coakes
Guest
[quote author=Grungefuttock link=topic=17199.msg399275#msg399275 date=1193838750]
[quote author=coakes link=topic=17199.msg399257#msg399257 date=1193837326]
[quote author=Grungefuttock link=topic=17199.msg399143#msg399143 date=1193829046]
In 1990 I took a taxi from my friend's house in suburban Maryland to get to church some distance away. The driver turned out to be from Grenada so we spent most of the journey talking cricket, but I was interested to ask a Grenadian living in America how he'd felt about the US invasion. He was totally in favour, and was only embarrassed (that word again) that it had taken someone other than Britain to get rid of "Coard and his bunch of gangsters", as he put it.
[/quote]
For all I know, the invasion may well have been the best thing for Grenada, but certainly the Head of State would have had an interesting conversation with her Prime Minister that morning. The special relationship we have with our closest ally can definitely look a little odd at times.
[/quote]
I believe Pres.Reagan got his ear chewed over it by said Prime Minister too, and yes, the relationship has its problems at times, but what relationship doesn't? They have had a lot to put up with from us at times too, not least the kind of thing seen in parts of this thread. Such is life - if any person, or country, wants a perfect relationship they're going to be pretty short of them.
[/quote]
Oh agreed - its never going to be absolutely perfect, but a little less asymmetric would be nice. Although as neither partner is remotely equal, we (and the Americans for that matter) might be better off if the rather tired term "special" were just no longer used.
[quote author=coakes link=topic=17199.msg399257#msg399257 date=1193837326]
[quote author=Grungefuttock link=topic=17199.msg399143#msg399143 date=1193829046]
In 1990 I took a taxi from my friend's house in suburban Maryland to get to church some distance away. The driver turned out to be from Grenada so we spent most of the journey talking cricket, but I was interested to ask a Grenadian living in America how he'd felt about the US invasion. He was totally in favour, and was only embarrassed (that word again) that it had taken someone other than Britain to get rid of "Coard and his bunch of gangsters", as he put it.
[/quote]
For all I know, the invasion may well have been the best thing for Grenada, but certainly the Head of State would have had an interesting conversation with her Prime Minister that morning. The special relationship we have with our closest ally can definitely look a little odd at times.
[/quote]
I believe Pres.Reagan got his ear chewed over it by said Prime Minister too, and yes, the relationship has its problems at times, but what relationship doesn't? They have had a lot to put up with from us at times too, not least the kind of thing seen in parts of this thread. Such is life - if any person, or country, wants a perfect relationship they're going to be pretty short of them.
[/quote]
Oh agreed - its never going to be absolutely perfect, but a little less asymmetric would be nice. Although as neither partner is remotely equal, we (and the Americans for that matter) might be better off if the rather tired term "special" were just no longer used.
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=17199.msg399294#msg399294 date=1193841020]
I wonder what the world would be like today, if the Nazi's had won WWII, other than Jewless. . .
[/quote]
You don't want to go there, mate. It's hard enough trying to intellectualise the reality of what happened.
However there is a novel by Robert Harris called Fatherland which does just that.
I wonder what the world would be like today, if the Nazi's had won WWII, other than Jewless. . .
[/quote]
You don't want to go there, mate. It's hard enough trying to intellectualise the reality of what happened.
However there is a novel by Robert Harris called Fatherland which does just that.
[quote author=Bologna link=topic=17199.msg399293#msg399293 date=1193840901]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=17199.msg399285#msg399285 date=1193840313]
damn bologna ... unreal what the Nazis did there.
[/quote]
Unfortunately it's all too real, LTW as you know. Indeed my macabre fascination with Nazi evil stems from this unreal reality.
[/quote]
it's become even more 'real' for me ... my wife's grandmother was born in poland ... her family hid inside a barn (with help from christians) for 2 years ... she would come out every few weeks to their hosts' amazement ... a few of her family died next to her from the diseases they got there ... hearing her speak and seeing how strong she is boggles my mind ... with 8 healthy grandchildren and 1 great grandchild, I guess she one of the millions of 'successful' lights that Hitler failed to extinguish during those 6 years.
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=17199.msg399285#msg399285 date=1193840313]
damn bologna ... unreal what the Nazis did there.
[/quote]
Unfortunately it's all too real, LTW as you know. Indeed my macabre fascination with Nazi evil stems from this unreal reality.
[/quote]
it's become even more 'real' for me ... my wife's grandmother was born in poland ... her family hid inside a barn (with help from christians) for 2 years ... she would come out every few weeks to their hosts' amazement ... a few of her family died next to her from the diseases they got there ... hearing her speak and seeing how strong she is boggles my mind ... with 8 healthy grandchildren and 1 great grandchild, I guess she one of the millions of 'successful' lights that Hitler failed to extinguish during those 6 years.
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=17199.msg399294#msg399294 date=1193841020]
I wonder what the world would be like today, if the Nazi's had won WWII, other than Jewless. . .
[/quote]
Had Hitler not been insane, they may very well have 'won' ... Not sure what would have happened but I prefer not to think about it ... Just those 6 years wiped out too many of my family, and missed my grandfather by a few days (he left Rhodes a few days before the Nazis arrived to cleanse it)
I wonder what the world would be like today, if the Nazi's had won WWII, other than Jewless. . .
[/quote]
Had Hitler not been insane, they may very well have 'won' ... Not sure what would have happened but I prefer not to think about it ... Just those 6 years wiped out too many of my family, and missed my grandfather by a few days (he left Rhodes a few days before the Nazis arrived to cleanse it)
G
Grungefuttock
Guest
Coakes, I understand the view about "special" etc.but I'm unable to agree with it. Aside from the fact that some of my best friends in the world are American, we as a country do get a lot from the relationship in terms of intelligence cooperation, and especially in today's world I would not be at all happy to take any action which could loosen the ties giving us access to it. Anyone unpersuaded by even that may want to think about phrases such as "inside the tent pissing out" and how that's preferable to its opposite.
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=17199.msg399294#msg399294 date=1193841020]
I wonder what the world would be like today, if the Nazi's had won WWII, other than Jewless. . .
[/quote]
Hmm I don't think they would let Japan have Asia, it probably would have went on into the late 40's, they were very close to the Nuclear bomb. The Japanese were going to get it one way or another.
btw it would have been jewless and catholic less many other religions less and all different colors of people less, everyone would be speaking German and be white skinned blonde haired and blue eyed.
Kinda boring all samey and no-one with a sense of humor.
An Englishman and Irishman and a Scotsman walked into a Bar, the Barkeeper said MEIN GOTT I zought you were all extinct!
I wonder what the world would be like today, if the Nazi's had won WWII, other than Jewless. . .
[/quote]
Hmm I don't think they would let Japan have Asia, it probably would have went on into the late 40's, they were very close to the Nuclear bomb. The Japanese were going to get it one way or another.
btw it would have been jewless and catholic less many other religions less and all different colors of people less, everyone would be speaking German and be white skinned blonde haired and blue eyed.
Kinda boring all samey and no-one with a sense of humor.
An Englishman and Irishman and a Scotsman walked into a Bar, the Barkeeper said MEIN GOTT I zought you were all extinct!
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=17199.msg399302#msg399302 date=1193841592]
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=17199.msg399294#msg399294 date=1193841020]
I wonder what the world would be like today, if the Nazi's had won WWII, other than Jewless. . .
[/quote]
Hmm I don't think they would let Japan have Asia, it probably would have went on into the late 40's, they were very close to the Nuclear bomb. The Japanese were going to get it one way or another.
btw it would have been jewless and catholic less many other religions less and all different colors of people less, everyone would be speaking German and be white skinned blonde haired and blue eyed.
[/quote]
yup ... it's what still boggles the mind about the mufti's relationship with him ... here was a man, who once hte Jews would go, would have been next on his 'hit list' ...
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=17199.msg399294#msg399294 date=1193841020]
I wonder what the world would be like today, if the Nazi's had won WWII, other than Jewless. . .
[/quote]
Hmm I don't think they would let Japan have Asia, it probably would have went on into the late 40's, they were very close to the Nuclear bomb. The Japanese were going to get it one way or another.
btw it would have been jewless and catholic less many other religions less and all different colors of people less, everyone would be speaking German and be white skinned blonde haired and blue eyed.
[/quote]
yup ... it's what still boggles the mind about the mufti's relationship with him ... here was a man, who once hte Jews would go, would have been next on his 'hit list' ...
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=17199.msg399309#msg399309 date=1193842399]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=17199.msg399302#msg399302 date=1193841592]
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=17199.msg399294#msg399294 date=1193841020]
I wonder what the world would be like today, if the Nazi's had won WWII, other than Jewless. . .
[/quote]
Hmm I don't think they would let Japan have Asia, it probably would have went on into the late 40's, they were very close to the Nuclear bomb. The Japanese were going to get it one way or another.
btw it would have been jewless and catholic less many other religions less and all different colors of people less, everyone would be speaking German and be white skinned blonde haired and blue eyed.
[/quote]
yup ... it's what still boggles the mind about the mufti's relationship with him ... here was a man, who once hte Jews would go, would have been next on his 'hit list' ...
[/quote]
One thing I do know for certain, The Liver Buildings would have become Luftwaffe HQ because Goring had already claimed it and Hitler said Ok its yours.....
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=17199.msg399302#msg399302 date=1193841592]
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=17199.msg399294#msg399294 date=1193841020]
I wonder what the world would be like today, if the Nazi's had won WWII, other than Jewless. . .
[/quote]
Hmm I don't think they would let Japan have Asia, it probably would have went on into the late 40's, they were very close to the Nuclear bomb. The Japanese were going to get it one way or another.
btw it would have been jewless and catholic less many other religions less and all different colors of people less, everyone would be speaking German and be white skinned blonde haired and blue eyed.
[/quote]
yup ... it's what still boggles the mind about the mufti's relationship with him ... here was a man, who once hte Jews would go, would have been next on his 'hit list' ...
[/quote]
One thing I do know for certain, The Liver Buildings would have become Luftwaffe HQ because Goring had already claimed it and Hitler said Ok its yours.....
[quote author=Bologna link=topic=17199.msg399297#msg399297 date=1193841210]
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=17199.msg399294#msg399294 date=1193841020]
I wonder what the world would be like today, if the Nazi's had won WWII, other than Jewless. . .
[/quote]
You don't want to go there, mate. It's hard enough trying to intellectualise the reality of what happened.
However there is a novel by Robert Harris called Fatherland which does just that.
[/quote]
Made into a film too.
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=17199.msg399294#msg399294 date=1193841020]
I wonder what the world would be like today, if the Nazi's had won WWII, other than Jewless. . .
[/quote]
You don't want to go there, mate. It's hard enough trying to intellectualise the reality of what happened.
However there is a novel by Robert Harris called Fatherland which does just that.
[/quote]
Made into a film too.
C
coakes
Guest
[quote author=Grungefuttock link=topic=17199.msg399300#msg399300 date=1193841435]
Coakes, I understand the view about "special" etc.but I'm unable to agree with it. Aside from the fact that some of my best friends in the world are American, we as a country do get a lot from the relationship in terms of intelligence cooperation, and especially in today's world I would not be at all happy to take any action which could loosen the ties giving us access to it. Anyone unpersuaded by even that may want to think about phrases such as "inside the tent pissing out" and how that's preferable to its opposite.
[/quote]
I'm objecting to the use of the term "special" in the way that the media use it to imply that any interaction between the UK and US can be viewed solely through that lens, given an apparent assumption that UK and US interests are exactly the same at all times. Particularly the way that any difference of opinion between the two countries actually "damages" the relationship - look at the coverage regarding some junior ministers' comments following Brown becoming Prime Minister and the subsequent attributed comments from both Washington and London that the relationship remained "intact". Any relationship that was "damaged" by those sorts of comments would be in serious trouble - it certainly wouldn't survive a row about having left the car parked overnight on a neighbour's lawn, and we would have been sleeping in the shed after having let the other half down in not wading into that altercation just outside the Chinese.
As far as I can see, the relationship is a bit more than enlightened self interest on both sides, but it remains clearly asymmetrical. I'm by no means advocating that we ditch the US and forge ahead with France or Germany or our oldest ally, Portugal. I'm not sure how relevant the Johnson/Hoover reference is.
Coakes, I understand the view about "special" etc.but I'm unable to agree with it. Aside from the fact that some of my best friends in the world are American, we as a country do get a lot from the relationship in terms of intelligence cooperation, and especially in today's world I would not be at all happy to take any action which could loosen the ties giving us access to it. Anyone unpersuaded by even that may want to think about phrases such as "inside the tent pissing out" and how that's preferable to its opposite.
[/quote]
I'm objecting to the use of the term "special" in the way that the media use it to imply that any interaction between the UK and US can be viewed solely through that lens, given an apparent assumption that UK and US interests are exactly the same at all times. Particularly the way that any difference of opinion between the two countries actually "damages" the relationship - look at the coverage regarding some junior ministers' comments following Brown becoming Prime Minister and the subsequent attributed comments from both Washington and London that the relationship remained "intact". Any relationship that was "damaged" by those sorts of comments would be in serious trouble - it certainly wouldn't survive a row about having left the car parked overnight on a neighbour's lawn, and we would have been sleeping in the shed after having let the other half down in not wading into that altercation just outside the Chinese.
As far as I can see, the relationship is a bit more than enlightened self interest on both sides, but it remains clearly asymmetrical. I'm by no means advocating that we ditch the US and forge ahead with France or Germany or our oldest ally, Portugal. I'm not sure how relevant the Johnson/Hoover reference is.
I think the point of quoting LBJ's bon mot was that, if all else fails to persuade you, keeping in with the US would still be justified if it were only for the sake of not getting on the wrong side of the world's only superpower.
As for the junior minister's comments, I think you whitewash those a little. The minister concerned, Lord Malloch-Brown, has history with the US dating from his time at the UN, i.e.well before he was appointed Minister of State here, so his appointment was fairly crude "look at me, I'm not Tony Blair" gesture politics in the first place. For him then to continue in the same vein was pretty provocative, certainly on his part and arguably on that of his seniors who failed to warn him, though they made a show of backpedalling after his comments.
The most important point about this IMO is how one handles disagreements - which are always going to occur at some time or another - with one's best friends. My own view is that the place to air those is behind closed doors, not in public. Making such disagreements everyone's business on the off chance of some temporary PR gain is a poor way to keep friends and influence people.
As for the junior minister's comments, I think you whitewash those a little. The minister concerned, Lord Malloch-Brown, has history with the US dating from his time at the UN, i.e.well before he was appointed Minister of State here, so his appointment was fairly crude "look at me, I'm not Tony Blair" gesture politics in the first place. For him then to continue in the same vein was pretty provocative, certainly on his part and arguably on that of his seniors who failed to warn him, though they made a show of backpedalling after his comments.
The most important point about this IMO is how one handles disagreements - which are always going to occur at some time or another - with one's best friends. My own view is that the place to air those is behind closed doors, not in public. Making such disagreements everyone's business on the off chance of some temporary PR gain is a poor way to keep friends and influence people.
C
coakes
Guest
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=17199.msg399657#msg399657 date=1193865494]
I think the point of quoting LBJ's bon mot was that, if all else fails to persuade you, keeping in with the US would still be justified if it were only for the sake of not getting on the wrong side of the world's only superpower.
As for the junior minister's comments, I think you whitewash those a little. The minister concerned, Lord Malloch-Brown, has history with the US dating from his time at the UN, i.e.well before he was appointed Minister of State here, so his appointment was fairly crude "look at me, I'm not Tony Blair" gesture politics in the first place. For him then to continue in the same vein was pretty provocative, certainly on his part and arguably on that of his seniors who failed to warn him, though they made a show of backpedalling after his comments.
The most important point about this IMO is how one handles disagreements - which are always going to occur at some time or another - with one's best friends. My own view is that the place to air those is behind closed doors, not in public. Making such disagreements everyone's business on the off chance of some temporary PR gain is a poor way to keep friends and influence people.
[/quote]
I didn't see it as relevant as I didn't see the situation as equivalent. Fair enough.
Well, true, I probably did ignore the details a tad. Yet the situation recurs whenever there's a new statesman on the block, having to play to more than one gallery, via proxies or not. In a perfect world, your's is the ideal solution.
I think the point of quoting LBJ's bon mot was that, if all else fails to persuade you, keeping in with the US would still be justified if it were only for the sake of not getting on the wrong side of the world's only superpower.
As for the junior minister's comments, I think you whitewash those a little. The minister concerned, Lord Malloch-Brown, has history with the US dating from his time at the UN, i.e.well before he was appointed Minister of State here, so his appointment was fairly crude "look at me, I'm not Tony Blair" gesture politics in the first place. For him then to continue in the same vein was pretty provocative, certainly on his part and arguably on that of his seniors who failed to warn him, though they made a show of backpedalling after his comments.
The most important point about this IMO is how one handles disagreements - which are always going to occur at some time or another - with one's best friends. My own view is that the place to air those is behind closed doors, not in public. Making such disagreements everyone's business on the off chance of some temporary PR gain is a poor way to keep friends and influence people.
[/quote]
I didn't see it as relevant as I didn't see the situation as equivalent. Fair enough.
Well, true, I probably did ignore the details a tad. Yet the situation recurs whenever there's a new statesman on the block, having to play to more than one gallery, via proxies or not. In a perfect world, your's is the ideal solution.
i like america and americans, it's a wonderful country and somewhere i'd gladly live.
if you're looking for just one thing that's great, i'll give you 'seinfeld'. but that's a drop in the pacific ocean.
and remember this: in a recent survey of british attitudes to the US, nearly everyone had sneering comments to make, but an incredible 20% of all particpants stated they'd move there if they had the chance. that's 1 in 5 of the whole sample.
think what it'd be the other way round. probably not even 1 in 500.
that's all you need to know.
if you're looking for just one thing that's great, i'll give you 'seinfeld'. but that's a drop in the pacific ocean.
and remember this: in a recent survey of british attitudes to the US, nearly everyone had sneering comments to make, but an incredible 20% of all particpants stated they'd move there if they had the chance. that's 1 in 5 of the whole sample.
think what it'd be the other way round. probably not even 1 in 500.
that's all you need to know.
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=17199.msg399057#msg399057 date=1193824911]
You must have mistaken me for some sort of American apologist,far from it.
I just thought I'd point out that your notion of Britain (and the Commonwealth and Russia) winning the war by itself without America to be utterly bullshit.
Incidentally, even if Monty had pulled off a Rambo-esque destruction of the Third Reich; there was the small matter of Japan.
The generation that fought WW2 is rightly called 'the greatest generation'; and that includes the Americans.
[/quote]
wow avvy. did not know you are a history buff as well *takes hat off* no wonder we are liverpool fans, living in the pass *runs for cover* hehe
You must have mistaken me for some sort of American apologist,far from it.
I just thought I'd point out that your notion of Britain (and the Commonwealth and Russia) winning the war by itself without America to be utterly bullshit.
Incidentally, even if Monty had pulled off a Rambo-esque destruction of the Third Reich; there was the small matter of Japan.
The generation that fought WW2 is rightly called 'the greatest generation'; and that includes the Americans.
[/quote]
wow avvy. did not know you are a history buff as well *takes hat off* no wonder we are liverpool fans, living in the pass *runs for cover* hehe
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=17199.msg400905#msg400905 date=1194049979]
i like america and americans, it's a wonderful country and somewhere i'd gladly live.
if you're looking for just one thing that's great, i'll give you 'seinfeld'. but that's a drop in the pacific ocean.
and remember this: in a recent survey of british attitudes to the US, nearly everyone had sneering comments to make, but an incredible 20% of all particpants stated they'd move there if they had the chance. that's 1 in 5 of the whole sample.
think what it'd be the other way round. probably not even 1 in 500.
that's all you need to know.
[/quote]
An 'incredible' 20% ? Not very incredible is it? They said an incredible 1 in 3 season ticket holders would get a final ticket for Athens too , but they never. My point being polls are meaningless.
i like america and americans, it's a wonderful country and somewhere i'd gladly live.
if you're looking for just one thing that's great, i'll give you 'seinfeld'. but that's a drop in the pacific ocean.
and remember this: in a recent survey of british attitudes to the US, nearly everyone had sneering comments to make, but an incredible 20% of all particpants stated they'd move there if they had the chance. that's 1 in 5 of the whole sample.
think what it'd be the other way round. probably not even 1 in 500.
that's all you need to know.
[/quote]
An 'incredible' 20% ? Not very incredible is it? They said an incredible 1 in 3 season ticket holders would get a final ticket for Athens too , but they never. My point being polls are meaningless.
Ron Paul.
Chinese food, Pizza, Tacos.
Chinese food, Pizza, Tacos.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=17199.msg401070#msg401070 date=1194098989]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=17199.msg400905#msg400905 date=1194049979]
i like america and americans, it's a wonderful country and somewhere i'd gladly live.
if you're looking for just one thing that's great, i'll give you 'seinfeld'. but that's a drop in the pacific ocean.
and remember this: in a recent survey of british attitudes to the US, nearly everyone had sneering comments to make, but an incredible 20% of all particpants stated they'd move there if they had the chance. that's 1 in 5 of the whole sample.
think what it'd be the other way round. probably not even 1 in 500.
that's all you need to know.
[/quote]
An 'incredible' 20% ? Not very incredible is it? They said an incredible 1 in 3 season ticket holders would get a final ticket for Athens too , but they never. My point being polls are meaningless.
[/quote]
'polls are meaningless' - a finer example of crass witless and contrarian scepticism i'll probably never see.
the fact that you don't find the figure of 20% incredible merely underlines how tacitly understood it is here that, for all its numerous quirks, the US represents in many ways an irresistable image: free, glamourous, very wealthy, irresistably powerful and influential and quite patently the capital of the world.
take more than a second to allow your brain to process the information: every one in five people, statistically (which are meaningful - you'll rarely see an incorrectly forecast general election, for example), would up sticks and move hundreds of miles across the Atlantic, if only they were allowed to.
that's a total number of willing british immigrants of (0.2 x 60,000,000) of 12 MILLION
Incredible? You'd better believe it!
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=17199.msg400905#msg400905 date=1194049979]
i like america and americans, it's a wonderful country and somewhere i'd gladly live.
if you're looking for just one thing that's great, i'll give you 'seinfeld'. but that's a drop in the pacific ocean.
and remember this: in a recent survey of british attitudes to the US, nearly everyone had sneering comments to make, but an incredible 20% of all particpants stated they'd move there if they had the chance. that's 1 in 5 of the whole sample.
think what it'd be the other way round. probably not even 1 in 500.
that's all you need to know.
[/quote]
An 'incredible' 20% ? Not very incredible is it? They said an incredible 1 in 3 season ticket holders would get a final ticket for Athens too , but they never. My point being polls are meaningless.
[/quote]
'polls are meaningless' - a finer example of crass witless and contrarian scepticism i'll probably never see.
the fact that you don't find the figure of 20% incredible merely underlines how tacitly understood it is here that, for all its numerous quirks, the US represents in many ways an irresistable image: free, glamourous, very wealthy, irresistably powerful and influential and quite patently the capital of the world.
take more than a second to allow your brain to process the information: every one in five people, statistically (which are meaningful - you'll rarely see an incorrectly forecast general election, for example), would up sticks and move hundreds of miles across the Atlantic, if only they were allowed to.
that's a total number of willing british immigrants of (0.2 x 60,000,000) of 12 MILLION
Incredible? You'd better believe it!
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=17199.msg402824#msg402824 date=1194297837]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=17199.msg401070#msg401070 date=1194098989]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=17199.msg400905#msg400905 date=1194049979]
i like america and americans, it's a wonderful country and somewhere i'd gladly live.
if you're looking for just one thing that's great, i'll give you 'seinfeld'. but that's a drop in the pacific ocean.
and remember this: in a recent survey of british attitudes to the US, nearly everyone had sneering comments to make, but an incredible 20% of all particpants stated they'd move there if they had the chance. that's 1 in 5 of the whole sample.
think what it'd be the other way round. probably not even 1 in 500.
that's all you need to know.
[/quote]
An 'incredible' 20% ? Not very incredible is it? They said an incredible 1 in 3 season ticket holders would get a final ticket for Athens too , but they never. My point being polls are meaningless.
[/quote]
'polls are meaningless' - a finer example of crass witless and contrarian scepticism i'll probably never see.
the fact that you don't find the figure of 20% incredible merely underlines how tacitly understood it is here that, for all its numerous quirks, the US represents in many ways an irresistable image: free, glamourous, very wealthy, irresistably powerful and influential and quite patently the capital of the world.
take more than a second to allow your brain to process the information: every one in five people, statistically (which are meaningful - you'll rarely see an incorrectly forecast general election, for example), would up sticks and move hundreds of miles across the Atlantic, if only they were allowed to.
that's a total number of willing british immigrants of (0.2 x 60,000,000) of 12 MILLION
Incredible? You'd better believe it!
[/quote]
12 million. Nope, I don't believe it. 1 in 5 I think may emigrate, given the chance, but the US as their chosen destination I simply don't swallow. Some polls are completely meaningless. For instance - let's take this 'vainest women' poll. The poll was done against 2000 people. Wow, 2000 people really represents a complete demographic of the UK population doesn't it? No, it doesn't. The likes of election MORI polls are relatively accurate as the choices given are few and they target a broader cross section of the population. For instance, if I did a poll to say what do you prefer for breakfast - Weetabix or Toast - and 45% reply that they prefer toast - does that mean that 45% of the population prefer toast for breakfast. No it means 45% would prefer toast from the CHOICES GIVEN. It does not represent a full cross section and thus a resultant opinion of the populous.
As for the US thing. Is it a truly 'free' country ? I do not believe such a thing exists. Wealthy, powerful and influential it undeniably is but there's many things it is not. Next time, take a few seconds for your brain to engage before you commit such a statement and note that using big words doesn't make it anymore believable than it would be if you simply stated it in laymans terms. Oh, and if you do decide to put yourself across as some uber-intellectual at least get your spelling and grammar correct.
And another thing - stop throwing a girlie hissy-fit just because I disagreed with something you posted.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=17199.msg401070#msg401070 date=1194098989]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=17199.msg400905#msg400905 date=1194049979]
i like america and americans, it's a wonderful country and somewhere i'd gladly live.
if you're looking for just one thing that's great, i'll give you 'seinfeld'. but that's a drop in the pacific ocean.
and remember this: in a recent survey of british attitudes to the US, nearly everyone had sneering comments to make, but an incredible 20% of all particpants stated they'd move there if they had the chance. that's 1 in 5 of the whole sample.
think what it'd be the other way round. probably not even 1 in 500.
that's all you need to know.
[/quote]
An 'incredible' 20% ? Not very incredible is it? They said an incredible 1 in 3 season ticket holders would get a final ticket for Athens too , but they never. My point being polls are meaningless.
[/quote]
'polls are meaningless' - a finer example of crass witless and contrarian scepticism i'll probably never see.
the fact that you don't find the figure of 20% incredible merely underlines how tacitly understood it is here that, for all its numerous quirks, the US represents in many ways an irresistable image: free, glamourous, very wealthy, irresistably powerful and influential and quite patently the capital of the world.
take more than a second to allow your brain to process the information: every one in five people, statistically (which are meaningful - you'll rarely see an incorrectly forecast general election, for example), would up sticks and move hundreds of miles across the Atlantic, if only they were allowed to.
that's a total number of willing british immigrants of (0.2 x 60,000,000) of 12 MILLION
Incredible? You'd better believe it!
[/quote]
12 million. Nope, I don't believe it. 1 in 5 I think may emigrate, given the chance, but the US as their chosen destination I simply don't swallow. Some polls are completely meaningless. For instance - let's take this 'vainest women' poll. The poll was done against 2000 people. Wow, 2000 people really represents a complete demographic of the UK population doesn't it? No, it doesn't. The likes of election MORI polls are relatively accurate as the choices given are few and they target a broader cross section of the population. For instance, if I did a poll to say what do you prefer for breakfast - Weetabix or Toast - and 45% reply that they prefer toast - does that mean that 45% of the population prefer toast for breakfast. No it means 45% would prefer toast from the CHOICES GIVEN. It does not represent a full cross section and thus a resultant opinion of the populous.
As for the US thing. Is it a truly 'free' country ? I do not believe such a thing exists. Wealthy, powerful and influential it undeniably is but there's many things it is not. Next time, take a few seconds for your brain to engage before you commit such a statement and note that using big words doesn't make it anymore believable than it would be if you simply stated it in laymans terms. Oh, and if you do decide to put yourself across as some uber-intellectual at least get your spelling and grammar correct.
And another thing - stop throwing a girlie hissy-fit just because I disagreed with something you posted.
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=17199.msg405047#msg405047 date=1194516537]
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91059-1291913,00.html?f=rss
ONLY in Amerika!
[/quote]
Well now hang on, you can’t book me and ask me to pull out when Cliff Thorburn becomes
available again. Well, now, look, you’ve got a choice. You can either book me now or wait
for Cliff Thorburn. But if Cliff Thorburn goes AWOL you’re up slack alley.
Cliff Thorburn is not, primarily, a presenter. He is a snooker – ex-snooker player – and is an unknown quantity.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91059-1291913,00.html?f=rss
ONLY in Amerika!
[/quote]
Well now hang on, you can’t book me and ask me to pull out when Cliff Thorburn becomes
available again. Well, now, look, you’ve got a choice. You can either book me now or wait
for Cliff Thorburn. But if Cliff Thorburn goes AWOL you’re up slack alley.
Cliff Thorburn is not, primarily, a presenter. He is a snooker – ex-snooker player – and is an unknown quantity.
[quote author='Dave' link=topic=17199.msg405052#msg405052 date=1194517114]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=17199.msg405047#msg405047 date=1194516537]
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91059-1291913,00.html?f=rss
ONLY in Amerika!
[/quote]
Well now hang on, you can’t book me and ask me to pull out when Cliff Thorburn becomes
available again. Well, now, look, you’ve got a choice. You can either book me now or wait
for Cliff Thorburn. But if Cliff Thorburn goes AWOL you’re up slack alley.
Cliff Thorburn is not, primarily, a presenter. He is a snooker – ex-snooker player – and is an unknown quantity.
[/quote]
Eh Dave?
Anyway, that couple had a close escape didn't they. Their car was totally and udderly destroyed.
*gets coat
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=17199.msg405047#msg405047 date=1194516537]
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91059-1291913,00.html?f=rss
ONLY in Amerika!
[/quote]
Well now hang on, you can’t book me and ask me to pull out when Cliff Thorburn becomes
available again. Well, now, look, you’ve got a choice. You can either book me now or wait
for Cliff Thorburn. But if Cliff Thorburn goes AWOL you’re up slack alley.
Cliff Thorburn is not, primarily, a presenter. He is a snooker – ex-snooker player – and is an unknown quantity.
[/quote]
Eh Dave?
Anyway, that couple had a close escape didn't they. Their car was totally and udderly destroyed.
*gets coat
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=17199.msg405079#msg405079 date=1194518866]
[quote author='Dave' link=topic=17199.msg405052#msg405052 date=1194517114]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=17199.msg405047#msg405047 date=1194516537]
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91059-1291913,00.html?f=rss
ONLY in Amerika!
[/quote]
Well now hang on, you can’t book me and ask me to pull out when Cliff Thorburn becomes
available again. Well, now, look, you’ve got a choice. You can either book me now or wait
for Cliff Thorburn. But if Cliff Thorburn goes AWOL you’re up slack alley.
Cliff Thorburn is not, primarily, a presenter. He is a snooker – ex-snooker player – and is an unknown quantity.
[/quote]
Eh Dave?
Anyway, that couple had a close escape didn't they. Their car was totally and udderly destroyed.
*gets coat
[/quote]
Alright,alright . . no need to milk their misfortune.
😉
[quote author='Dave' link=topic=17199.msg405052#msg405052 date=1194517114]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=17199.msg405047#msg405047 date=1194516537]
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91059-1291913,00.html?f=rss
ONLY in Amerika!
[/quote]
Well now hang on, you can’t book me and ask me to pull out when Cliff Thorburn becomes
available again. Well, now, look, you’ve got a choice. You can either book me now or wait
for Cliff Thorburn. But if Cliff Thorburn goes AWOL you’re up slack alley.
Cliff Thorburn is not, primarily, a presenter. He is a snooker – ex-snooker player – and is an unknown quantity.
[/quote]
Eh Dave?
Anyway, that couple had a close escape didn't they. Their car was totally and udderly destroyed.
*gets coat
[/quote]
Alright,alright . . no need to milk their misfortune.
😉
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=17199.msg405111#msg405111 date=1194521010]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=17199.msg405079#msg405079 date=1194518866]
Eh Dave?
Anyway, that couple had a close escape didn't they. Their car was totally and udderly destroyed.
*gets coat
[/quote]
Alright,alright . . no need to milk their misfortune.
😉
[/quote]
Hope the weather was fine. Imagine that happening and you're forced to stand out in the Friesan cold rain.
[size=5pt]I'm getting off before I get chinned.[/size]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=17199.msg405079#msg405079 date=1194518866]
Eh Dave?
Anyway, that couple had a close escape didn't they. Their car was totally and udderly destroyed.
*gets coat
[/quote]
Alright,alright . . no need to milk their misfortune.
😉
[/quote]
Hope the weather was fine. Imagine that happening and you're forced to stand out in the Friesan cold rain.
[size=5pt]I'm getting off before I get chinned.[/size]
G
Grungefuttock
Guest
Yeah, you'd be on the horns of a dilemma then - could get quite cowed by it all. A mooving scenario all round.
'Course, this could all just be a load of old bull.
'Course, this could all just be a load of old bull.
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