Adam Lallana

[mark1975]

Edit: And Carrick was about the same age as Lallana is now when United signed him.

Yeah, but United signed Ferdinand for £30m, and we can't really seriously say that the same transfer would be any differently priced now. United inflated the market for English based players, then Chelsea and City came along and the rest is history. Stupidly for us we allowed ourselves to fall into the same trap for a while, but we were playing catch up and got it horribly wrong in the end.

There's not really a massive justification for spending the money, not when the risk is us getting dragged into another, long drawn out transfer saga that takes our eye off the ball and ends up costing twice what our intentions were. And looking at it saying that player X cost £20m 8yrs ago, ergo accounting for inflation justifies it now, is not really solving anything. Carrick in the same position would cost the same now, like Ferdinand would. It was inflated then and it would be now, but there's little proportional difference in where the market has gone on that type of player. United were already paying over the odds to price other clubs out the move, that's what we'll end up competing with from Chelsea/United/City.

I do like Lallana btw, but I'm done with thinking £20m or whatever is ever good business on a player who's had one top level season. It's a risk, all transfers are but we've said a million times, we need to be shrewd and show we can unearth players or get in there early. Instead of just going for the flavour of the month type players who cost an inflated fee because the World and it's wife now knows who they are.

Whoever we sign though, I'm gonna show caution, because Rodgers' and previous managers records in the transfer market, are patchy at best. Everyone was jumping on the "look at Spurs" and "look at Arsenal" bandwagons in the Summer. I'm fucked if I'm gonna get suckered into thinking blowing a wad of cash, to send out some shallow message of intent, is gonna solve anything. We need to strengthen, but we need to be better than everyone else at identifying targets and executing deals, this just smacks of more of the same. The press are onto it now and it's only April, that leaves alot of scope for it to get drawn out and exaggerated.

 

[Pesam]

Well it's all about opinions but I'd guess spending £20m on Lallana, despite the fact "he's only had one top level season", would represent less of a risk than £20m on Konoplyanka who hasn't yet proved he can adapt to the EPL. Truth be told I'm confident they'd both prove to be canny purchases.

 

[peterhague]

"Carrick in the same postion would cost the same now, just as Ferdinand would"

Er, based on *what*, exactly?

Ferdinand cost £30m *twelve* years ago, in which time the general price level of players has at least doubled.

 

[mark1975]

"Carrick in the same postion would cost the same now, just as Ferdinand would"

Er, based on *what*, exactly?

Ferdinand cost £30m *twelve* years ago, in which time the general price level of players has at least doubled.

So Ferdinand is young and playing for Everton/Southampton now, how much is he going for? I'd wager it's not much different to £30m. It was inflated then and now it's like the top end set fee for a top tier English based player, moving to another English based club. Or remind me again who's gone for more?

Oh. Smart arse.

 

[keniget]

"Carrick in the same postion would cost the same now, just as Ferdinand would"

Er, based on *what*, exactly?

Ferdinand cost £30m *twelve* years ago, in which time the general price level of players has at least doubled.

I don't think it's far off to be honest. Has a CB gone for more than 40M Euros, which is roughly what PSG paid for Thiago Silva (who some argued as the best CB in the world)?

Either side of that transfer we've seen Pepe go for 30M Euros in 2007 and Marqinhos for the same last summer, so it still seems to be roughly the going rate for top CB talent.

 

[mark1975]

It inflated that much that we paid £20m for Glen Johnson seven years later, another young, highly rated English defender.

The only real isolated case where a player has moved for more was the knock on, Torres to Chelsea > Carroll to Liverpool. Like I said, isolated, not many have moved for above that shelf fee of £30m. So it obviously hasn't inflated that heavily at the high end.

 

[peterhague]

You'll notice, Mr Intelligence, that Luke Shaw is currently being touted for a £30m move to the same club. He's 18, and plays at left back, not exactly a traditionally expensive position. Ferdinand was something like 23, had years in the PL behind him, had just starred in the World Cup for England, and was widely recognised as one of the best defenders in the world.

There's no way those are equivalent transfers.

I can't give an accurate example to suggest what Ferdinand would actually be worth now, because I can't think of an equivalent transfer from the last couple of years. There hasn't been one.

But you'd have to make a pretty compelling case to convince anyone that somehow inflation has affected most transfers but not some specific examples. It'd need some serious explanation.

 

[mark1975]

Ferdinand is still the 6th highest value English transfer (his eventual fee being £34m), the rest are Ronaldo, Bale, Torres, Ozil and Shevchenko. Only one of them was moving between Premiership clubs, the rest were between the Premiership and a European market.

 

[peterhague]

I don't think it's far off to be honest. Has a CB gone for more than 40M Euros, which is roughly what PSG paid for Thiago Silva (who some argued as the best CB in the world)?

Either side of that transfer we've seen Pepe go for 30M Euros in 2007 and Marqinhos for the same last summer, so it still seems to be roughly the going rate for top CB talent.

How old was Thiago Silva when he cost 40m Euros?

 

[mark1975]

You'll notice, Mr Intelligence, that Luke Shaw is currently being touted for a £30m move to the same club. He's 18, and plays at left back, not exactly a traditionally expensive position. Ferdinand was something like 23, had years in the PL behind him, had just starred in the World Cup for England, and was widely recognised as one of the best defenders in the world.

There's no way those are equivalent transfers.

I can't give an accurate example to suggest what Ferdinand would actually be worth now, because I can't think of an equivalent transfer from the last couple of years. There hasn't been one.

But you'd have to make a pretty compelling case to convince anyone that somehow inflation has affected most transfers but not some specific examples. It'd need some serious explanation.

So it can't be proven that he would move for more now then? Glad that's sorted. United signed Ferdinand for what ended up being £34m (then), and are now arguably again out there on their own spending £20m on Shaw (now), like I said, that probably equates to about the same. A 23 year old costing £14m more than a similarly highly rated (if lesser experienced) 18 year old.

I'm fucked if I could see the Ferdinand of then moving for a much different fee now. Are you saying the Glen Johnson transfer of 2009 would cost more now? No it wouldn't, not significantly more, if at all. Inflation might have effected certain aspects of the market, but there still seems to be a relative ceiling figure of £30m for early 20's highly rated English talent. It hasn't expanded that much, if at all.

And in response to the "Mr intelligence", you're the one passing off the standard condescending vibe just to make a point. Based on *what*.

Get fucked.

 

[keniget]

How old was Thiago Silva when he cost 40m Euros?

Late 20s.

 

[cloggypop]

Bit dull this. Let's give him a song instead. I want something based on this



If the Kop sing it too fast it will end up like this

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Well, they're definitely comparable players.

Sorry I should have been more clear.

"If" the rumours are true that we're interested in Lallana for 20-25mil, then we're being done because we should be getting much more for our money. I used Shaw as an example because we need a LB, he's better, 7-8 years younger and has much more potential than Lallana + wouldn't cost that much more. Different positions i know, but hopefully you get the point.

 

[Mystic]

Sorry I should have been more clear.

"If" the rumours are true that we're interested in Lallana for 20-25mil, then we're being done because we should be getting much more for our money. I used Shaw as an example because we need a LB, he's better, 7-8 years younger and has much more potential than Lallana + wouldn't cost that much more. Different positions i know, but hopefully you get the point.

I'd see if we could get both for £40million

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Oh i do like Lallana, just not at the price being mentioned.

 

[Rafiagra]

He is a quality player but I can't see him being world class. 15m is the right price for him. 20m+ and no way are we getting any value as I can't see him improving too much.

 

[Spionkop69]

A lot of journos seem to be going with this rumour. So they probably steal from Twitter. If it's good enough for Dunk.."

 

[red_maradona]

Here's 8 players who would be better value and risk than Lallana at 25m

- kono
- kovacic
- lacazette
- pjanicic
- isco
- koke
- rakitic
- quintero

 

[Ryan]

It's only a risky signing if you haven't seen him play.

Watch him at the World Cup sure. He'll be the one being outstanding.

 

[peterhague]

So it can't be proven that he would move for more now then? Glad that's sorted. United signed Ferdinand for what ended up being £34m (then), and are now arguably again out there on their own spending £20m on Shaw (now), like I said, that probably equates to about the same. A 23 year old costing £14m more than a similarly highly rated (if lesser experienced) 18 year old.

I'm fucked if I could see the Ferdinand of then moving for a much different fee now. Are you saying the Glen Johnson transfer of 2009 would cost more now? No it wouldn't, not significantly more, if at all. Inflation might have effected certain aspects of the market, but there still seems to be a relative ceiling figure of £30m for early 20's highly rated English talent. It hasn't expanded that much, if at all.

And in response to the "Mr intelligence", you're the one passing off the standard condescending vibe just to make a point. Based on *what*.

Get fucked.

Your assertion that inflation applies to seemingly random sections of the market is without any basis in logic, or even any evidence.

That's just the latest reason I think you're thick.

 

[Spaghetti Legs]

Here's 8 players who would be better value and risk than Lallana at 25m

- kono
- kovacic
- lacazette
- pjanicic
- isco
- koke
- rakitic
- quintero

Be honest though, you don't really know that, no-one does.

Not sure what you really mean by risk? Lallana has proved hes well capable in this league, not just this season either, none of those players have proven themselves in this league, yeah most of them probably would but its no cast iron guarantee, this time last year Lamela would have been on your list.

Some of those players only really have had one real good season haven't they? so that increases any potential risk, Rakitic looks good this season but his name wasn't anywhere to be seen this time last year, maybe a few eagle eyed people over here recognised his talent but he was nowhere near as mainstream as he is now, hes 26 and would cost a similar fee to Lallana, i know who i would rather have out of the 2, its a no brainer really.

Lacazette its a break through season in France for him isn't it? not sure how hes less of a risk even at 5/6 million less than Lallana or better value, lets be honest, who knows how good he will turn out to be, Kovacic is a one for the future, we couldn't expect him to come in and deliever what Lallana would, tbh i don't see why signing Lallana would affect us signing the likes of Kono and Kovacevic if we wanted them, same with that Lacazette fella as well.

Quintero and Pjanicic i know fuck all about, the other 2 Isco and Koke would be exciting signings but still a bit of a risk, think Ozil, we would want instant delivery on the massive money we paid for them, with Lallana we will get instant delivery, tbh the more i think about it the more Lallana seems right for us, i don't doubt him as a class player so the only negative is the fee if its as high as we imagine it might be though tbh thats the stuff we shouldn't worry that much about anyway, 100% he is no Carroll or Downing, not a single chance.

 

[Whirly]

Be honest though, you don't really know that, no-one does.

Not sure what you really mean by risk? Lallana has proved hes well capable in this league, not just this season either, none of those players have proven themselves in this league, yeah most of them probably would but its no cast iron guarantee, this time last year Lamela would have been on your list.

Some of those players only really have had one real good season haven't they? so that increases any potential risk, Rakitic looks good this season but his name wasn't anywhere to be seen this time last year, maybe a few eagle eyed people over here recognised his talent but he was nowhere near as mainstream as he is now, hes 26 and would cost a similar fee to Lallana, i know who i would rather have out of the 2, its a no brainer really.

Lacazette its a break through season in France for him isn't it? not sure how hes less of a risk even at 5/6 million less than Lallana or better value, lets be honest, who knows how good he will turn out to be, Kovacic is a one for the future, we couldn't expect him to come in and deliever what Lallana would, tbh i don't see why signing Lallana would affect us signing the likes of Kono and Kovacevic if we wanted them, same with that Lacazette fella as well.

Quintero and Pjanicic i know fuck all about, the other 2 Isco and Koke would be exciting signings but still a bit of a risk, think Ozil, we would want instant delivery on the massive money we paid for them, with Lallana we will get instant delivery, tbh the more i think about it the more Lallana seems right for us, i don't doubt him as a class player so the only negative is the fee if its as high as we imagine it might be though tbh thats the stuff we shouldn't worry that much about anyway, 100% he is no Carroll or Downing, not a single chance.

Honestly, I think most people who I take seriously about transfers on this board knew about Rakitic, Konoplyanka, and Lacazette well before this past summer. I distinctly remember seeing good things about the first two at Euro 2012. Lallana is a much more obscure player than those three from a talent standpoint.

Lallana has grown on me as a transfer target of late, but I'm not convinced he's worth much more than 12M. When you compare him to say Roberto Firmino for a comparable fee, I don't see why Lallana is the better option.

 

[Spaghetti Legs]

Honestly, I think most people who I take seriously about transfers on this board knew about Rakitic, Konoplyanka, and Lacazette well before this past summer. I distinctly remember seeing good things about the first two at Euro 2012. Lallana is a much more obscure player than those three from a talent standpoint.

Lallana has grown on me as a transfer target of late, but I'm not convinced he's worth much more than 12M. When you compare him to say Roberto Firmino for a comparable fee, I don't see why Lallana is the better option.

Im really suprised you are even going here Whirly and even a subtle pop as well, lol, your credibility on this subject is non existant after you said all Southamptons players are 'very average players' and continuing to jusify that opinion afterwards, why would you even want to spend 12 mill on a very average player anyway? thats another nonsense.

I never said nothing about anyone not being aware of Kono, him and his mate Yarmelenko are well known and the main men for their national side and have been for quite some time.

Rakitic hasn't been mainstream over here before this season, you might have been aware of him along with the young French kid, theres a difference between being aware and actually having knowledge about a player from watching him, anyone that plays Football Manager is aware of a lot of players and laughably and quite tragically base an opinion off of that and wing it to make themselves look like they are knowledgable.

I bet you haven't actually watched much of Firmino just like you clearly haven't watched much of Southampton.

 

[cloggypop]

Here's 8 players who would be better value and risk than Lallana at 25m

- kono
- kovacic
- lacazette
- pjanicic
- isco
- koke
- rakitic
- quintero

Would that have had Lamela in there last year?

 

[cloggypop]

I never said nothing

Stop that right now Sketti Legs

 

[Whirly]

Im really suprised you are even going here Whirly and even a subtle pop as well, lol, your credibility on this subject is non existant after you said all Southamptons players are 'very average players' and continuing to jusify that opinion afterwards, why would you even want to spend 12 mill on a very average player anyway? thats another nonsense.

I never said nothing about anyone not being aware of Kono, him and his mate Yarmelenko are well known and the main men for their national side and have been for quite some time.

Rakitic hasn't been mainstream over here before this season, you might have been aware of him along with the young French kid, theres a difference between being aware and actually having knowledge about a player from watching him, anyone that plays Football Manager is aware of a lot of players and laughably and quite tragically base an opinion off of that and wing it to make themselves look like they are knowledgable.

I bet you haven't actually watched much of Firmino just like you clearly haven't watched much of Southampton.

That wasn't a shot at you at all. I meant in general, sorry you misunderstood. On this board, I mainly trust @dmishra @rurikbird and @King Binny and their opinions on players. What I generally find is that the international posters on this board have a tendency to have a broader view of the game, whereas the more local posters have an emphasis on signing known entities.

It looks like you missed the part where I said that Lallana has grown on me as a potential signing of late.

I've never played Football Manager before. I probably should though.

Southampton mostly are very average players. That's been more visible in the last few months, as they've been dropping points in key situations instead of pushing for Europa.

Honestly though, I haven't seen much of Firmino. But what I have seen makes me think he would be a much smarter purchase than Lallana if they are valued similarly.

 

[localny]

Yeah, but United signed Ferdinand for £30m, and we can't really seriously say that the same transfer would be any differently priced now. United inflated the market for English based players, then Chelsea and City came along and the rest is history. Stupidly for us we allowed ourselves to fall into the same trap for a while, but we were playing catch up and got it horribly wrong in the end.

There's not really a massive justification for spending the money, not when the risk is us getting dragged into another, long drawn out transfer saga that takes our eye off the ball and ends up costing twice what our intentions were. And looking at it saying that player X cost £20m 8yrs ago, ergo accounting for inflation justifies it now, is not really solving anything. Carrick in the same position would cost the same now, like Ferdinand would. It was inflated then and it would be now, but there's little proportional difference in where the market has gone on that type of player. United were already paying over the odds to price other clubs out the move, that's what we'll end up competing with from Chelsea/United/City.

I do like Lallana btw, but I'm done with thinking £20m or whatever is ever good business on a player who's had one top level season. It's a risk, all transfers are but we've said a million times, we need to be shrewd and show we can unearth players or get in there early. Instead of just going for the flavour of the month type players who cost an inflated fee because the World and it's wife now knows who they are.

Whoever we sign though, I'm gonna show caution, because Rodgers' and previous managers records in the transfer market, are patchy at best. Everyone was jumping on the "look at Spurs" and "look at Arsenal" bandwagons in the Summer. I'm fucked if I'm gonna get suckered into thinking blowing a wad of cash, to send out some shallow message of intent, is gonna solve anything. We need to strengthen, but we need to be better than everyone else at identifying targets and executing deals, this just smacks of more of the same. The press are onto it now and it's only April, that leaves alot of scope for it to get drawn out and exaggerated.

Dead right. Do you have Charlie Adam in mind and stewy, when you say this?

 

[Molbystwin]

I am wary of us buying English players for big cash especially after the debacle of 3 years ago.

I hope he is good but I wouldn't want us to spend more than 15M on him tbh.

If the stadium investment goes ahead would it not be a good idea to buy players towards the start of the careers than the middle?

 

[Mystic]

I am wary of us buying English players for big cash especially after the debacle of 3 years ago.

I hope he is good but I wouldn't want us to spend more than 15M on him tbh.

If the stadium investment goes ahead would it not be a good idea to buy players towards the start of the careers than the middle?

With Allen, Sterling, Henderson, Sakho, Coutinho and Sturridge all 24 and under as first team players, I think we can afford to aim a little older.

 

[mark1975]

Your assertion that inflation applies to seemingly random sections of the market is without any basis in logic, or even any evidence.

That's just the latest reason I think you're thick.

It's not without basis at all. Have a look at the transfer records, like I said in the *first* post I made, it hasn't inflated that heavily at the high end of the market, the records speak for themselves. So of course inflation has effected different aspects of the market. Without any basis or logic. Errr, like I said, have a look at the transfer records for your evidence.

And you're calling me thick?

You can't reply to me or others on here without being a Holier-than-thou, stuck up cunt, so seriously. Don't fucking bother next time.