It is pointless to mention SA region gor Academy when we can’t sign anyone below 18, presumably if they are any good then they would be in an established academy such as Benfica, Porto, or some where in Spain by then.
Academy players
- Thread starter bluebell
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Status
It is pointless to mention SA region gor Academy when we can’t sign anyone below 18, presumably if they are any good then they would be in an established academy such as Benfica, Porto, or some where in Spain by then.
I'm not it's saying a problem as such because the 2 are totally unconnected. Scouting is not included in the same bracket as poor management, lack of funds, player injuries, insufficient training resources etc for the success of a team.
However it is something that clearly needs to be improved on & given more attention on enhancing...it takes a lot of people to make this work which I understand. It would take someone like Klopp or even Ljinders to be the driving instigator for that but again I understand time is very sparse.
Would you say our academy has been a success or failure this century?
Isn’t that why we should be buying a club or two over there like everyone else is doing.
It’s not Klopp or the coaches job.
It’s the DOF’s role to set the framework, firstly not sure we are much worse than other clubs on this but it needs right direction, focus and funds anyway.
Maybe not their job no but the prime responsibility for Klopp & the coaches are the players....this includes care & development.
As we all know there are 2 sources to bringing players in.....you either chuck a load of money at another club or you have them waiting in line at your own club.
They all need to communicate and work together to make it work....if Jorg has plans of his own to improve the academy which Pep or Klopp doesn't agree with, guess what? It's not gonna happen is it.
Would our fans be patient to see a youth plod along while we want to maxmise the 3yrs on Klopp’s contract to win things?
Coaches set the playing vision but rest should come from DOF.
Anyway, just doing one thing over orher won’t work. You need to do both, need to chuck a load of money and ensure Academy pathway provides. Just signing a load Academy players of 13-15 is not going to help Klopp. All our main rivals would be doing the same and the elite now focus some of their Academy via their satellite clubs it seems. Won’t be surprised of Newcastle don’t by a couple of smaller clubs next year…
Last edited:
Patient while we wait? The 2 aren't mutually exclusive...these things should be done in conjunction, in the background as we go on to win things.
Too much emphasis is being shown to other clubs, we just need to focus on ourselves & what we can do tbh.....which is far more than what we are to support the foundation that was set many moons ago by the late great Shanks.
You say things aren’t mutually exclusive but then your previous contradicts that.
Anyway, Academy needs focus and coherent vision, but I don’t see currently a huge gap in our academy compared to others. We have a limited budget and seems like we are doing ok with plenty to improve none the less.
I don't actually understand what that means, particularly taken in the context of a reply to my post. Why are you picking on scouting specifically? What evidence do you have that the scouts aren't doing their jobs?
As to whether our academy has been a success or failure, I'd say it's more of a success than a failure given what we put into it. We've gotten a few genuine stars, a few squad players and several have been sold on for good money.
Well your post stated that scouting isn't anywhere near the top of our list of problems.
I kinda agree if by "problems" you mean in the sense of success coming to the club in general but I would never think to include scouting as a potential problem as to why we're not successful anyway so for me it's unrelated.
Personally I feel our academy has underwhelmed/deteriorated over the last 20 years so this is why I highlight it as an area that needs a significant change, (whether that be personnel or a re-structure I'm not quite sure).
We've gone from the golden era of Macca/Fowler/Owen/Stevie/Carra/Matteo during a 10 year span to Trent & I'll add Jones in too during a 20 year span.
TBH Keni nailed it before. We're torn between needing to scout more effectively and buying ready made stars. We can't afford the stars, but we're not prepared to take the risk either. Ideally the new DOF needs to pick a lane, rather than straddling both and hoping a great manager flukes us a league
There isn’t a lane that really needs to be picked tbh, just a case of diverting some more time and money (set aside a very minute amount) to the academy each year.
Our academy is below Fulham, Villa, Southampton, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal…just about everyone, it’s shoddy.
Our academy is below Fulham, Villa, Southampton, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal…just about everyone, it’s shoddy.
I think I was one of those who sidetracked from Academy products to player purchase, with the thinking being - since there are certain geographical restrictions regarding Academy intake, we should/need to tap on the other markets/options.
However, as I mentioned in my earlier post, rather than just going for the 16/17 yr olds, we should go for the slightly older and more experienced ones to bridge the gap (e.g. signing then 19 yr old Grujic and 18 yr old Gomez).
It doesn’t have to be South American market too. Ostigard was picked up as an 18 yr old from Norway and Gyokeres came from Swedish league at 19 yrs old. Even if such signings don't make it at the club, the amount they get sold for can cover their cost and usually return profit (Carvalho is an likely e.g.)
Last edited:
But it is picking a lane. Considering as a club we're trying to get low wages and breakdown of transfers of 4 year installments, every pound matters. If we decide to invest in youth more, it impacts our ability to sign for the here and now. If we did adopt a chelsea model of buy often, sell often;; it would take a few years to capitalise on that like they had for a decade.
Our academy should be better, theres no argument over that. The issue is how we get to improve it, whilst just about keeping our head above water for the first team
Golden eras don't come around every 10-15 years though.
At least these days we're making real money from sales as opposed to couple hundred thousand here and there. It's not Chelsea / City money but then we're not investing Chelsea / City money.
Take a look at Klopp's sales: https://www.lfchistory.net/transfers/bymanager/28/0
It's 150M+ from young players in under 10 years. Phillips and one or two others will likely add to that in the very near future.
Then consider we've had two top tier talents in TAA and Sterling make it into the first team and the likes of Jones, Elliot, Kelleher, Bajcetic as squaddies (potentially more given time).
I've asked this before, but remind me, how is it that Everton find on average better local talent than we do?
Or am I imagining this?
Also they seem better at finding English talent in general too.
Branthwaite
Davies
Godfrey
Calvert
Holgate
Kenny
Robinson
Gordon
I've probably missed a few.
You can argue that most of them are average, but how many PL caliber players have we produced at the same time?
Neco, Cujo, Trent, Phillips and Elliot "kinda" (cause honestly we just stole him from Fulham)?
I'm just counting players born in the UK.
My point is, considering who we're competing with, I mean Chelsea, Man U, City etc, shouldn't we have at least twice as many as Everton?
Last edited:
Godfrey they bought for 20m, so i dunno there. As for the rest of them....to be honest? They're shite. Gordon may do something but he's shite.
I think the key difference is they promote from within because they spunk all their money on shite, so their youth players adapt to the league quicker because they're played more consistently . We give neco 5 minutes in the league, or a game with other reserves in the carabao and then act surprised when he doesn't develop as much as we'd hope.
As a club, we don't have the time to develop players properly.
Wouldn't even count Neco or Phillips. They're championship players. Wilson is more worthy of a shout.
Everton's list is pretty woeful too, Godfrey they got from Norwich I think for like 25m, DCL they got from Sheffield when he was like 19/20 but had played a season or 2 of league football already & went straight into their first team.
Is Merseyside just really that shit at football? Who are the current scouse born and bred players in world football atm? Trent Gordon Jones & Barkley?
Besides all this, are there any rumours floating about we can have a hard, sweaty wank over or is it just gonna be academy players/system and whinging about "what Stevie's said now" until the season starts?
Everton's list is pretty woeful too, Godfrey they got from Norwich I think for like 25m, DCL they got from Sheffield when he was like 19/20 but had played a season or 2 of league football already & went straight into their first team.
Is Merseyside just really that shit at football? Who are the current scouse born and bred players in world football atm? Trent Gordon Jones & Barkley?
Besides all this, are there any rumours floating about we can have a hard, sweaty wank over or is it just gonna be academy players/system and whinging about "what Stevie's said now" until the season starts?
Last edited:
I get what you're saying but Chelsea and Arsenal seem to be able to do it.
If they're good enough they generally make it, I can't think of one "super talented" player who left us early ( at reserve level) and made it somewhere else.
Arsenal haven't been at the top for nigh on 20 years, so they've been able to. If they can continue with that for the next 5-10 years i'd be impressed. Chelsea are a different breed. London based, and pretty much hoovered all talent for minimal cost, as the potential sell on value for decent players helped their FFP. Guehi, Loftus-Cheek, Hudson-Odoi, Solanke, Broja are examples of players who at their very best are "decent", who would command a decent fee. There's also the kakutas, the borinis, the Mellis', mceacherans. It's low risk, potential high reward. But they can afford to take the low risk because they know it doesn't affect their ability to buy
James Garner, Cresswell, Coady maybe
Isn't Garner a manc?
Christ we're in trouble...looks like it's not just the older generation giving up on football then.
I can't disagree with you there, but we should be able to at least support our first team with local talent. What's stopping us from sending players out on loan like Chelsea and the rest are doing? How big of a risk it financially really?
Producing one top class player every 10 years ( Gerrard now Trent) is a terrible record.
Nah, his whole family are LFC supporters and he's born and raised in Birkenhead
U21 Euro winner lol
How many world class players have Utd brought through in the last 10 years? I might be missing some but the only player I can think of that arguably makes that category is Rashford.
And I don't think you can compare the talent pool in Merseyside to London. How many Scouse superstars have we missed out on? Rooney is the only one I can think of.
And I don't think you can compare the talent pool in Merseyside to London. How many Scouse superstars have we missed out on? Rooney is the only one I can think of.
I don't want to say his name but he's a sex offender.
Like I said it doesn't need to be a world class player, just a kid with talent that's gone on to do well, even if it's someone like Welbeck or Cleverely.
Fletcher, Brown, O'Shea, Evans, Mctomminay.
So adding Rashford and the sex offender, that's already 9 in the time we've produced Trent & Jones.
Like I said it doesn't need to be a world class player, just a kid with talent that's gone on to do well, even if it's someone like Welbeck or Cleverely.
Fletcher, Brown, O'Shea, Evans, Mctomminay.
So adding Rashford and the sex offender, that's already 9 in the time we've produced Trent & Jones.
Last edited:
Jack Rodwell lol
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
