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4th place

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[quote author=keniget link=topic=38739.msg1047931#msg1047931 date=1265096948]
I agree with the fact that we need to invest a lot of money in this squad. I don't at all agree that 4th is some sort of massive over-achievement... at all.
[/quote]

I think you might be alluding to my post. If so, I said "quite an achievement" which is quite different to "massive over-achievement".

We do need investment, I don't think many would disagree. I think it's more important to get on a level financial footing with the other clubs than simply changing one coach for another with similar records.
 
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=38739.msg1047901#msg1047901 date=1265082173]
To be honest I'm a little fucked off with all the shit Dreamy gets about supporting other clubs, etc. I think he's a bit too pessimistic usually and rides the "I saw this coming before it happened" train a little too hard to the point of annoyance but IMO there is no questioning his support of the club. And anyone suggesting he takes pleasure in our failures this season should get bent. Just my opinion likes.
[/quote]

"I'm enjoying this season more than last".
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=38739.msg1047875#msg1047875 date=1265074568]
[quote author=Chan link=topic=38739.msg1047788#msg1047788 date=1265058518]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=38739.msg1047783#msg1047783 date=1265058178]
What are people on?
Arsenal would be right up there to win it if they beat Utd yesterday.

1 defeat doesn't change that. Arsenal will cruise to 3rd.

City will get fourth and we may or may not get 5th but it doesn't really matter.

After Everton Arsenal and then City will beat us as things stand.

We don't have the pace to trouble Arsenal and can't stop Arshavin.


[/quote]

Are you sure you support Liverpool?
[/quote]

Yes I'm just a realist as opposed to having blind hope.

I love the club as much as the next fan and hate to see them lose.
[/quote]

You're THE most pessimistic person on this forum. You're not a realist, no matter how much you think you are. Not that I'm attacking you or anything, just saying you're most definitely not a realist.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38739.msg1048005#msg1048005 date=1265109947]
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=38739.msg1047901#msg1047901 date=1265082173]
To be honest I'm a little fucked off with all the shit Dreamy gets about supporting other clubs, etc. I think he's a bit too pessimistic usually and rides the "I saw this coming before it happened" train a little too hard to the point of annoyance but IMO there is no questioning his support of the club. And anyone suggesting he takes pleasure in our failures this season should get bent. Just my opinion likes.
[/quote]

"I'm enjoying this season more than last".
[/quote]

Ouch! Good find!
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38739.msg1048005#msg1048005 date=1265109947]
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=38739.msg1047901#msg1047901 date=1265082173]
To be honest I'm a little fucked off with all the shit Dreamy gets about supporting other clubs, etc. I think he's a bit too pessimistic usually and rides the "I saw this coming before it happened" train a little too hard to the point of annoyance but IMO there is no questioning his support of the club. And anyone suggesting he takes pleasure in our failures this season should get bent. Just my opinion likes.
[/quote]

"I'm enjoying this season more than last".
[/quote]

I knew from day one last season we would get very close but not win it. And I said as much from day one only to be laughed at.

It was gutt wrenching watching us get closer than we have in 20 years only to come up short. So ya I pretty much couldn't bare last season as I knew for all our work Utd would pip us.
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=38739.msg1048029#msg1048029 date=1265111630]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=38739.msg1047875#msg1047875 date=1265074568]
[quote author=Chan link=topic=38739.msg1047788#msg1047788 date=1265058518]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=38739.msg1047783#msg1047783 date=1265058178]
What are people on?
Arsenal would be right up there to win it if they beat Utd yesterday.

1 defeat doesn't change that. Arsenal will cruise to 3rd.

City will get fourth and we may or may not get 5th but it doesn't really matter.

After Everton Arsenal and then City will beat us as things stand.

We don't have the pace to trouble Arsenal and can't stop Arshavin.


[/quote]

Are you sure you support Liverpool?
[/quote]

Yes I'm just a realist as opposed to having blind hope.

I love the club as much as the next fan and hate to see them lose.
[/quote]

You're THE most pessimistic person on this forum. You're not a realist, no matter how much you think you are. Not that I'm attacking you or anything, just saying you're most definitely not a realist.
[/quote]

I think Rosco took that honour this season.

None of my predictions over the last two seasons team wish have been off in fact they have been pretty much spot on.

Not to low not to high so how does that make me a pessimist?
 
I'm enjoying this season more than last
Click to expand...

That was a very poorly expressed opinion that is going to be hard to live down DB. To say you're enjoying a season every other Liverpool fan finds heartbreakingly miserable is very bizarre and something you can't explain away, so I'd give up trying.

As for the comments about being pessimistic, well you are. You have just matter of factly elected to tell us that we will lose our upcoming fixtures and will struggle for fifth. That's pessimism at it's finest.

A realist would provide a more balanced view acknowledging that whilst things appear to be a little desperate at times, there is still a chance of winning the upcoming battles and indeed the war overall. After all, football is a funny 'ol game as is said. This doesn't prevent you from predicting the way things will go, but will serve to show that you're not a WUM.
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=38739.msg1048336#msg1048336 date=1265147325]

I think Rosco took that honour this season.

None of my predictions over the last two seasons team wish have been off in fact they have been pretty much spot on.

Not to low not to high so how does that make me a pessimist?
[/quote]

You have, if not the most, the second most pessimistic attitude on this forum. That makes you a pessimist by definition.
I don't know what predictions you made last season, besides the Keane one, so can't comment on whether you've been right or wrong. The unfortunate fact of being a Liverpool fan over the past 20 years is that if you keep making pessimistic predictions, you'll be right more often than not. It's not exactly difficult and not exactly clever. You can pat yourself on the back if you're right and be happy, for more obvious reasons, if you're wrong. That's what pessimists do.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=38739.msg1048340#msg1048340 date=1265147804]
I'm enjoying this season more than last
Click to expand...

That was a very poorly expressed opinion that is going to be hard to live down DB. To say you're enjoying a season every other Liverpool fan finds heartbreakingly miserable is very bizarre and something you can't explain away, so I'd give up trying.

As for the comments about being pessimistic, well you are. You have just matter of factly elected to tell us that we will lose our upcoming fixtures and will struggle for fifth. That's pessimism at it's finest.

A realist would provide a more balanced view acknowledging that whilst things appear to be a little desperate at times, there is still a chance of winning the upcoming battles and indeed the war overall. After all, football is a funny 'ol game as is said. This doesn't prevent you from predicting the way things will go, but will serve to show that you're not a WUM.
[/quote]

Of course "almost" anything can happen in football, I was merely stating what I think will happen.

I could be wrong and would only love to be and see us push for 3rd and win the Europa cup with Gerrard and Torres leading the way and Babel and aquaman coming good.

Just don't see it happening.
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=38739.msg1048353#msg1048353 date=1265150410]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=38739.msg1048336#msg1048336 date=1265147325]

I think Rosco took that honour this season.

None of my predictions over the last two seasons team wish have been off in fact they have been pretty much spot on.

Not to low not to high so how does that make me a pessimist?
[/quote]

You have, if not the most, the second most pessimistic attitude on this forum. That makes you a pessimist by definition.
I don't know what predictions you made last season, besides the Keane one, so can't comment on whether you've been right or wrong. The unfortunate fact of being a Liverpool fan over the past 20 years is that if you keep making pessimistic predictions, you'll be right more often than not. It's not exactly difficult and not exactly clever. You can pat yourself on the back if you're right and be happy, for more obvious reasons, if you're wrong. That's what pessimists do.

[/quote]

I was the most optimistic by far up until the transfers of two summers ago. I really thought Rafa was going to do it. Then he f*cekd it up and my attitude changed as 2nd is not good enough.

I was optimistic as I saw him building towards a team capable of winning the league but once it was clear that wasn't going to happen (in my eyes at least) I made my thoughts known and got hounded for it.

There is a difference between being pessimistic and realistic.

Sadly yes over the last 20 years a realistic viewpoint of LFC is to not expect a title challenge. Its' not pessimistic its just the way it is. We have not been good enough. I thought Rafa could change this but he can't.

As for last season I predicted with the signing of Keane, that it was a waste of 20m. That we needed a pacey winger that could help us stretch and break down stubborn teams at home when we needed a goal. We also needed a back up striker. Instead we got Keane who actually could have been very good for us if he was played week in week out in a 442. It never happened and those we came unstuck in to many games at home.

I actually went as far to say as we would go desperately close to winning it but ultimately we would fall short as we didn't have enough creativity and options in the final third. And that we would drop to many silly points not being able to break down some teams. Pretty spot on.

After 3 games this year I said we would win f*ck all with Lucas playing Alonso's position. After game one I said Yossi should play in the hole and Gerrard should play with Masher. Again two predictions that have proven to be pretty accurate.

I also said when some posters were forming a "we can still win the league group" that we would be in a big fight for fourth come November nevermind 1st and got slaughtered for not being a fan and a cnut and what not.

This isn't a told you so more just to point out my views aren't pessimistic just realistic for us.
 
I think that particular comment was a very foolish one and one that you may never live down in the eyes of some, Dreamy. Still think you're a fan though. You need to get more aggressive, add some biting insults to your game. Once Brendan's done mentoring me, maybe he'll adopt you next.
 
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=38739.msg1048353#msg1048353 date=1265150410]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=38739.msg1048336#msg1048336 date=1265147325]

I think Rosco took that honour this season.

None of my predictions over the last two seasons team wish have been off in fact they have been pretty much spot on.

Not to low not to high so how does that make me a pessimist?
[/quote]

You have, if not the most, the second most pessimistic attitude on this forum. That makes you a pessimist by definition.
I don't know what predictions you made last season, besides the Keane one, so can't comment on whether you've been right or wrong. The unfortunate fact of being a Liverpool fan over the past 20 years is that if you keep making pessimistic predictions, you'll be right more often than not. It's not exactly difficult and not exactly clever. You can pat yourself on the back if you're right and be happy, for more obvious reasons, if you're wrong. That's what pessimists do.

[/quote]

Ross isn't being pessimistic; he's just angry and frustrated.

He is NOT enjoying this season.
 
Agreed, but there are other posters who've been doommongering for so long that they give the distinct impression of being happier when we do badly, because they think it proves them right to have put a negative spin on everything in sight.
 
So much for 4th but 3rd looks up for grabs. A win at the Gooners for us puts us right in the mix and would make us favourites.I'm looking forward to Wednesday. Another big performance is not too much to hope for?
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=38739.msg1048461#msg1048461 date=1265192481]
Agreed, but there are other posters who've been doommongering for so long that they give the distinct impression of being happier when we do badly, because they think it proves them right to have put a negative spin on everything in sight.
[/quote]

spin is irrelevant. what matters is the doommongerer's at least see everything in sight. the rest of the fans are as delluded as the manager to the hideously cancerous problems that the club is riddled with
 
u dont see the future the way i do. we will probably miss out on 4th. it will kill you inside when it happens. and then a few weeks later you will get see lucas with a fucking smile on his face and his grubby little paws are holding the world cup

so id rather not give him the satisfaction of wiping the cheer off my face. id rather sit here angry, waiting and prepared for whats coming
 
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=38739.msg1050909#msg1050909 date=1265574274]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=38739.msg1048461#msg1048461 date=1265192481]
Agreed, but there are other posters who've been doommongering for so long that they give the distinct impression of being happier when we do badly, because they think it proves them right to have put a negative spin on everything in sight.
[/quote]

spin is irrelevant. what matters is the doommongerer's at least see everything in sight. the rest of the fans are as delluded as the manager to the hideously cancerous problems that the club is riddled with
[/quote]

I'm glad I didn't post that. Still see us getting thumped in the next two games and slipping down to 7th. Hope I'm wrong.
 
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=38739.msg1050909#msg1050909 date=1265574274]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=38739.msg1048461#msg1048461 date=1265192481]
Agreed, but there are other posters who've been doommongering for so long that they give the distinct impression of being happier when we do badly, because they think it proves them right to have put a negative spin on everything in sight.
[/quote]

spin is irrelevant. what matters is the doommongerer's at least see everything in sight. the rest of the fans are as delluded as the manager to the hideously cancerous problems that the club is riddled with
[/quote]

Nonsense. Nobody's denying we've got problems. The way in which each of us reacts to those problems is a different matter altogether, the old "glass half-full/half-empty" dichotomy. If you as an individual choose to take a pessimistic view in order to shield yourself against future disappointment that's a matter for you, but imagining you (and others who may be like-minded) are the only ones who aren't "deluded" is narcissism of the highest order.
 
this isnt a matter of being optimisitic or pessimistic. its a matter of being infected with cancer and dying. anyone who looks on the bright side of that, or believes that they'll recover by some miracle are in fact delluded. the doommongerer's are the ones seeking to irradiate the cancer to kill it. there's no narcissm about that, whats so bad about not wanting the club to die?
 
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=38739.msg1050953#msg1050953 date=1265579237]
this isnt a matter of being optimisitic or pessimistic. its a matter of being infected with cancer and dying. anyone who looks on the bright side of that, or believes that they'll recover by some miracle are in fact delluded. the doommongerer's are the ones seeking to irradiate the cancer to kill it. there's no narcissm about that, whats so bad about not wanting the club to die?
[/quote]

I think that's a inappropriately extended analogy which lacks any sort of perspective on life and what's actually important.

We are a football club, that has failed to perform, and then returned to a bit of form. Not fantastic form, but good results, andwe've definitely gained confidence and steel defensively which was always going to be our number one priority to stop the rot. There are still fundamental issues with the side, and there's no doubt that those issues will hamper our efforts going forward, especially against quality. The same is true of all the clubs around us competing for 4th. They all have flaws.

We could certainly fail to get 4th, and we could certainly get it. There are reasons for both "sides" on that question to believe one way or the other. There aren't compelling reasons to have some fatalist or providential certainty about failure or success.

The largest issues with the club are related to the ownership, they are solvable, but part of that solution doesn't involve not getting 4th.
 
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=38739.msg1050953#msg1050953 date=1265579237]
this isnt a matter of being optimisitic or pessimistic. its a matter of being infected with cancer and dying. anyone who looks on the bright side of that, or believes that they'll recover by some miracle are in fact delluded. the doommongerer's are the ones seeking to irradiate the cancer to kill it. there's no narcissm about that, whats so bad about not wanting the club to die?
[/quote]

are you a goth?
 
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=38739.msg1050958#msg1050958 date=1265580293]
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=38739.msg1050953#msg1050953 date=1265579237]
this isnt a matter of being optimisitic or pessimistic. its a matter of being infected with cancer and dying. anyone who looks on the bright side of that, or believes that they'll recover by some miracle are in fact delluded. the doommongerer's are the ones seeking to irradiate the cancer to kill it. there's no narcissm about that, whats so bad about not wanting the club to die?
[/quote]

are you a goth?
[/quote]

I think it's more emo than goth.
 
4th place is definitely on now. We need to have the passion and commitment we showed against Spurs and Everton every game now. We can do it
 
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