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Whynaldum?

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JohnnyRocket

JohnnyRocket

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Honestly not really sure what to make of him.

When Lucas first arrived here years ago, one thing struck me in his first couple of years at LFC – that he wasn’t particularly good at anything. He was average at a lot of aspects, but didn’t have a stand out feature. Years later nothing has changed.

I fear Wijnaldum may suffer a little bit from the same syndrome. He’s not particularly quick. His long shooting is average. His finishing is limp (should have won us the game at United, but decided to pass it to De Gea). His passing is fairly neat and tidy, but nothing outstanding. He’s not a controlling type of CM who can dictate the play. Even against Wolves, as one of the few senior players, playing in central midfield, I really expected him to stamp his authority on the game against a Championship side. Yet he didn’t.

I understand he presses well, but is that a good enough reason for him? And what exactly is he doing that Joe Allen couldn’t do? Most importantly in the longer-term, what exactly will he offer us?
 
I have been a Gini detractor (largely the anthesis of Froggy, who is slowly turning me into a believer) but I have summed up most of my posts with

  • He seems to have what you can't teach - instinct. He is very often in the right place at the right time when the opposition aren't expecting it. Yes - he has fluffed his lines at most shooting opportunities, but we all remember Coutinho also doing so in his early days with us.
  • His footballing ability (aside from shooting, at present) is sublime - and I think he is still growing in confidence after getting a big move to a big team. The impact he has on our game (fast moving, fluid football) when we are in top flow is there for all to see after we have had to endure Can being square pegged into that round hole.
Whilst I get on his back about wasted chances, the fact that he keeps getting them is showing that his natural instinct is fantastic. I have faith, but it pains me to see him keep missing glorious opportunities
 
Not enough goals. Those changes he got at united were excellent and the finishing was poor
 
Passive player who isn't really needed in the side...doesn't bring anything different and he's not a game changer, cut our losses and sell in summer.
 
JohnnyRocket said:
Honestly not really sure what to make of him.

When Lucas first arrived here years ago, one thing struck me in his first couple of years at LFC – that he wasn’t particularly good at anything. He was average at a lot of aspects, but didn’t have a stand out feature. Years later nothing has changed.

I fear Wijnaldum may suffer a little bit from the same syndrome. He’s not particularly quick. His long shooting is average. His finishing is limp (should have won us the game at United, but decided to pass it to De Gea). His passing is fairly neat and tidy, but nothing outstanding. He’s not a controlling type of CM who can dictate the play. Even against Wolves, as one of the few senior players, playing in central midfield, I really expected him to stamp his authority on the game against a Championship side. Yet he didn’t.

I understand he presses well, but is that a good enough reason for him? And what exactly is he doing that Joe Allen couldn’t do? Most importantly in the longer-term, what exactly will he offer us?
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I don't know why so many seem either unsure or disappointed with Wijnaldum. It's nothing that any Newcastle fan couldn't have told you. He very often dispapeared entirely in games, especially away from home.

It's unfair to compare him to Lucas, as he is far more mobile and effective, but it is certainly valid to wonder if he should be dictating play and contributing more. His little bandy legs are never going to allow him to be a midfield dynamo like Gerrard, but I expected more goals and creativity.

Perhaps we're being a bit harsh, but I'm getting a bit bored of players who do so much 'unseen' work, because it rather begs the question as to why all this fantastic work is sometimes so hard to discern...almost as if it isn't there at all.
 
I'm more bothered by the fact he seems to be yet another player to add to our collection of footballers who seem to lack mental toughness.
 
Divisive players tend not to go onto to be anything special. He is better than our typical 'divisive player' of recent years. He's clearly a good footballer - has good touch, good passing and can dictate our attacking tempo at times - but people questioning what we got for a £25M price tag are right to do so, IMO. He cannot shake that 'neat and tidy' stigma he's established and his lack of impact when we're not playing well, or have kids in the team, is concerning. I had hoped for more.

That said, there's far greater problems than Wijnaldum right now.
 
Silver Sean said:
He's only been here a few months. He's an excellent player who does a lot of unnoticed work. I think he has a big future here.
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This is more or less my take on him as well. Been suffering with the rest of them in January, but overall I am very pleased with him.
 
My main issue with our midfield is that Wijnaldum is a bit of a shithouse. He isn't physically imposing, never shows any conviction in his shooting, isn't particularly adventurous with his passing

He is the epitome of 'neat and tidy' which is great when we're in control and on top, but when we require a player to force a game to his own will, to impose himself and bend the outcome to our own fortune, to take that pass or shot that nobody else dares, he's fucking USELESS, and just floats about passing it 3 yards to someone next to him.

A shithouse.
 
manwithnoname said:
My main issue with our midfield is that Wijnaldum is a bit of a shithouse. He isn't physically imposing, never shows any conviction in his shooting, isn't particularly adventurous with his passing

He is the epitome of 'neat and tidy' which is great when we're in control and on top, but when we require a player to force a game to his own will, to impose himself and bend the outcome to our own fortune, to take that pass or shot that nobody else dares, he's fucking USELESS, and just floats about passing it 3 yards to someone next to him.

A shithouse.
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Your lack of even the most basic understanding of what it takes to make a team shines through once more. You probably thought Spackman was a waste of space.
 
Silver Sean said:
Your lack of even the most basic understanding of what it takes to make a team shines through once more. You probably thought Spackman was a waste of space.
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He was OK. Although I'm not sure he's the greatest example of a player that we should aspire to, or hope Wjnaldum matches in the pantheon of Liverpool midfielders, given he played a grand total of 5o times for the club.
 
It's not like bandy players can't be good, Garrincha, Rivaldo and Beckham were all bandy.

I didn't see the point in Wijnaldum earlier on in the season, but he won me over during our good run. Since then, though, as others have said, he doesn't really stamp his authority on a game. He's like an upgrade on Joe Allen. Nice tidy player that works hard, but ultimately one you'd want more from.
 
The lack of real imperious defensive midfielder that can boss a game is what we are missing. Wijnaldum and Coutinho in front of a Wanyama-type of player would be amazing.
 
There's a wonderful 'The Wijnaldum Conundrum' thread from way back in September that is worth a re-read

Same issues, same concerns, some very salient points
 
His lack of tackling is also a worry. How many 50-50 tackles has he made, let alone won?
 
He's another jack of all trades and master of none. He's decent when the team is playing well but poor when we need that bit more.
 
Another one of those players who are great when all the first choice players are in the team but struggles when more emphasis is put on him when there are senior players missing. On Saturday he looked like the championship player and not the Wolves midfielders.
He's seems to duck out of playing anything more than a simple pass and his lack of pace doesn't help when teams break against us.
 
davud graham said:
Another one of those players who are great when all the first choice players are in the team but struggles when more emphasis is put on him when there are senior players missing. On Saturday he looked like the championship player and not the Wolves midfielders.
He's seems to duck out of playing anything more than a simple pass and his lack of pace doesn't help when teams break against us.
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It all goes back to that old football adage of artists and artisans.

Shankly was often quoted as saying that a football team is like a piano, you need 8 players to lift it and three who can actually play it. Paisley alluded to it as well, pointing out that Spackman was a player who would carry others 'on his back'

And I totally buy into the principle, but it's easier to appreciate the piano- carriers when they actually do some lifting, know where they're going and - crucially - you have enough virtuoso piano players to give you a sonata.

At the moment our defence can only play the theme tune to Benny Hill, the midfield are afraid to even lift the lid, and in attack you get Rossini once in every 10 games and fucking Chopsticks the rest of the time
 
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We don't even have piano carriers though. Those sorts of players should be able at the very least to grind out a draw when the superstars are off form or injured. At the moment though when our supposed top players are not in the side, or playing crap, the rest of the team goes into its shell.
 
Best Believe It said:
We don't even have piano carriers though. Those sorts of players should be able at the very least to grind out a draw when the superstars are off form or injured. At the moment though when our supposed top players are not in the side, or playing crap, the rest of the team goes into its shell.
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Agree with that
 
Best Believe It said:
We don't even have piano carriers though. Those sorts of players should be able at the very least to grind out a draw when the superstars are off form or injured. At the moment though when our supposed top players are not in the side, or playing crap, the rest of the team goes into its shell.
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Anyone who's played football at more or less any level I reckon knows that it's not always the best players in terms of sheer class and ability that are the most important for a teams success. But more so the one's leading by example, going forward, making teammates work harder, fight harder, and carries the will to win without never letting their head hang down. An inspired figure for others to lean on. Obviously he can't be a crap footballer, but he doesn't have to the best either. Or even second or third.

We are certainly at least one of these type of players short in the current setup.
 
Kay Age El said:
Anyone who's played football at more or less any level I reckon knows that it's not always the best players in terms of sheer class and ability that are the most important for a teams success. But more so the one's leading by example, going forward, making teammates work harder, fight harder, and carries the will to win without never letting their head hang down. An inspired figure for others to lean on. Obviously he can't be a crap footballer, but he doesn't have to the best either. Or even second or third.

We are certainly at least one of these type of players short in the current setup.
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Every now and again I've thought Henderson could be one of those players, or was at least developing into one. Standing up to Costa, geeing Flanno on when he steamed into Sterling etc. But his confidence has dropped loads - I presume both as a result of carrying the injury for so long last year, and not being so sure of himself in the deeper role. As a result he's not confident in his own ability as a footballer as he used to be.
 
Best Believe It said:
Every now and again I've thought Henderson could be one of those players, or was at least developing into one. Standing up to Costa, geeing Flanno on when he steamed into Sterling etc. But his confidence has dropped loads - I presume both as a result of carrying the injury for so long last year, and not being so sure of himself in the deeper role. As a result he's not confident in his own ability as a footballer as he used to be.
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Indeed. I am not giving up on Hendo but sadly he has stagnated a bit or even gone backwards, but as you explain their might good reasons for his drop in form. I am hopeful to see him utilized further forward as I think he's not really tailor made for that defensive midfield role at all.
 
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