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The Lions 2013

Props - Cole, Healy, Jenkins, A. Jones, Matt Stevens, Vunipola

Hookers - Hartley, HIbbard, Youngs
 
back row - Croft, Faletau, Heaslip, Lydiate, O'Brien, Tipuric, Warburton
 
Very harsh indeed on Rory Best whom I'd probably have picked before any of the others, tho' obv.Gatland's been far closer to the relevant action.

Not sure about Warburton as captain, though I was never convinced by the Robshaw-for-captain bandwagon as I didn't think he'd be an automatic choice for the Test side. Bit surprised he's not even in the party though.
 
There aren't all that many obvious choices as captain because naturally you're guaranteeing the guy will start the Tests.

I think it might backfire on Gatland though. If there's one player in that whole touring party you were hoping wouldn't play too well to oust your captain the last person I would put in that position is Sean O Brien. He's capable of out shining everybody on that tour if he's 100%.

The choice of only two 10's is a bad one for me. Inevitably a replacement will be called in.
 
It was a gamble whoever was named skipper. Just look at the bookies favourites for the role: BOD, O'Connell, Warburton, Robshaw, Best and AW Jones..............................2 weren't deemed good enough for the squad and none of the others should be anywhere near certain of their places in the test side.
 
Rosco: I'm hoping to see a back row of Warburton, Faletau and O'Brien.

I don't see why Warburton playing 7 should stop O'Brien from having a starting place at 6. I think he could be devastating there.
 
I thought it was a rather obvious squad selection personally. The only real shocks for me were the inclusions of Stevens and Maitland + the likes of Best and Robshaw missing out.

Best: Well it was looking like a scrap for the third place between him and Hartley and tbh it was a coin flip in my opinion. Youngs and Hibberd have both had great six nations + they've both scored high in the lions index during the HC games.

Robshaw: It's quite telling that he's been left out. It's pretty clear how we're going to look to play on this tour.

Maitland: Whats he like? All i know about him is that he's the kiwi who now plays for the jocks.

Stevens: Very lucky boy.

Lydiate: Great player, but has to classed as jammy to get selected. I think he's played a grand total of 100mins since coming back from a very serious injury.
 
Picking only 2 10's is very risky. I really can't understand why Gatland didn't choose to take a 3rd 10 from the start.
 
Rosco: I'm hoping to see a back row of Warburton, Faletau and O'Brien.

I don't see why Warburton playing 7 should stop O'Brien from having a starting place at 6. I think he could be devastating there.

I think O'Brien is being penciled in for a bench spot. He could be a game changer. He can play any of the three roles, but the drawback to him at 6 or 8 is he isn't really a lineout option. If Faletau gets the nod at 8, I can't see O'Brien at 6 - It'll be Croft in that instance. If Heaslip gets the nod at 8 then anything goes for 6.

There's a few guys who haven't played a lot of rugby recently who might feel lucky to be in - O'Connell and Bowe from Ireland for a start.

There's not a whole lot to argue with in the squad though - it's obvious from the interviews (and the selection reflects it) they were looking to bring a very physical side down under. If the coaches can get the right atmosphere in the squad this could go very well for us. There's going to be a lot of tight calls for test spots.
 
Considering that the aussies have pulled all of their squad members from playing in any of the midweek games mate, i doubt you'd get anything special. I have the Lions as favourites but i could easily see the Aussies winning if our lads don't gel quickly enough.
 
There's going to be a lot of tight calls for test spots.

Apart from BOD, Adam Jones, Phillips, Warburton and North, i think you could easily argue that all of the other spots are up for grabs.

As things stand right now i'd go for the following:

Healy
Youngs
Jones
O'Connell
Gray
O'Brien
Warburton
Faletau
Phillips
Sexton
BOD
Tuilagi
North
Bowe
Halfpenny
 
I don't know where I stand on a lot of positions at the moment.

I wouldn't swap Healy for any prop in the world, I could be talked into any of the options for 2&3 to be honest.

Richie Gray & AN Other in the second row. O'Connell's experience might give him an edge, AW Jones feels like the right partner for Gray though.... I know nothing about Parling?

I'd be if the opinion you need 3 good lineout jumpers minimum, you're second rows and at least one of the back row. For that reason I'd be inclined to go with Croft at 6, Warburton at 7 and O'Brien at 8.

Phillips and Sexton are an easy choice.

The rest of the backline is hard to call. It's a toss up at fullback, for me Kearney is your prototype fullback - Halfpenny has been excellent all year though. The wings, North is the only regular 11 but I think form will be the decider on the wings, they're all capable. In the centre if on form I like the balance Roberts and BOD provide. Tuilagi is really impressive but I still think he's a bit raw
 
I thought it was a rather obvious squad selection personally. The only real shocks for me were the inclusions of Stevens and Maitland + the likes of Best and Robshaw missing out.

Best: Well it was looking like a scrap for the third place between him and Hartley and tbh it was a coin flip in my opinion. Youngs and Hibberd have both had great six nations + they've both scored high in the lions index during the HC games.


I think very few people thought that it was a coin flip especially since Best easily had the better of them against Northampton (leading to Hartley losing his cool and landing a cheap shot). Best has looked like one of the top hookers in world rugby over the past couple of years, Hartley hasn't. I'm afraid Ireland's wayward lineout has been to blame, which, as pointed out by Keith Woods, was much more about a poor collective lineout effort, than Best's throwing. I'm gutted for Best, who really, really wanted this, and IMHO deserved it. Especially shitful is that that horrible cunt Hartley has got the nod.
 
I don't know where I stand on a lot of positions at the moment.

I wouldn't swap Healy for any prop in the world, I could be talked into any of the options for 2&3 to be honest.

Richie Gray & AN Other in the second row. O'Connell's experience might give him an edge, AW Jones feels like the right partner for Gray though.... I know nothing about Parling?

I'd be if the opinion you need 3 good lineout jumpers minimum, you're second rows and at least one of the back row. For that reason I'd be inclined to go with Croft at 6, Warburton at 7 and O'Brien at 8.

Phillips and Sexton are an easy choice.

The rest of the backline is hard to call. It's a toss up at fullback, for me Kearney is your prototype fullback - Halfpenny has been excellent all year though. The wings, North is the only regular 11 but I think form will be the decider on the wings, they're all capable. In the centre if on form I like the balance Roberts and BOD provide. Tuilagi is really impressive but I still think he's a bit raw

Very astute lineout operator and his general play also came on well last season. His lineout skills got him his place though, because in terms of sheer heft he isn't the equal of O'Connell or Gray, and he doesn't have AWJ's experience. Given the type of game Gatland seems likely to want to play, my money would be on O'Connell getting the nod, though that could easily change if one of the others hits a purple patch on tour.
 
I think very few people thought that it was a coin flip especially since Best easily had the better of them against Northampton (leading to Hartley losing his cool and landing a cheap shot). Best has looked like one of the top hookers in world rugby over the past couple of years, Hartley hasn't. I'm afraid Ireland's wayward lineout has been to blame, which, as pointed out by Keith Woods, was much more about a poor collective lineout effort, than Best's throwing. I'm gutted for Best, who really, really wanted this, and IMHO deserved it. Especially shitful is that that horrible cunt Hartley has got the nod.

I'm not sure that using the Ulster v Northampton game is a good way to judge who is the better hooker mate. Best would have had a much easier ride during that match considering who he's got backing him up in the front five.

Even if you're english it must be hard to like Hartley, but there is no denying that he is a top hooker, he's just been a bit unlucky that he's been playing behind Youngs. If Hartley had been playing on a regular basis for England i doubt it would of been even a coin flip, all the selected hookers offer more in the set piece than Best + all are better ball carriers and much more of a physical presence around the park.
 
all are better ball carriers and much more of a physical presence around the park.

With respect, that's utter balls. Best is a terrific presence round the park, a great ball carrier, and makes repeated impacts around the park. Is this one of your fakey posts, because it is so seriously off the mark?
 
I think you might have your Ulster tinted glasses on mate. When compared to the likes of Hibberd, Hartley and Youngs, i would argue that Best falls short in that area of his game.

If as you argue that he is in great form (agreed), is one of the best hookers in the world (strongly disagree) and has all of the attributes that you say................................Then why have Gatland and co decided that he's not amongst the top 3 hookers in Britain and Ireland?

From what i've seen and read, nobody seems to concerned about the omission of Best (which is telling in itself). The main talking points seem to revolve around the call to only take 2 10's and the England captain not being selected.
 
I wouldn't class him as a great ball carrier, he's a textbook one though. Good body position, knows where to keep the ball, knows when to take it to the deck and knows how to land with it. A lot of which is under appreciated by many.

Rafa is correct in saying he's not that physical a player, he doesn't tend to knock people back in one on one encounters - which I think did count against him, but I think it's a foolish way to pick a hooker.

He's technically excellent, smart, his workrate is massive and he contributes to every aspect of the game. I would have taken him ahead of three that were picked.
 
I think you might have your Ulster tinted glasses on mate. When compared to the likes of Hibberd, Hartley and Youngs, i would argue that Best falls short in that area of his game.

If as you argue that he is in great form (agreed), is one of the best hookers in the world (strongly disagree) and has all of the attributes that you say................................Then why have Gatland and co decided that he's not amongst the top 3 hookers in Britain and Ireland?

From what i've seen and read, nobody seems to concerned about the omission of Best (which is telling in itself). The main talking points seem to revolve around the call to only take 2 10's and the England captain not being selected.

Every educated foward I've heard *has* been talking about it, and has said it was a bewildering call. Certainly the discussion they had on the 5Live rugby special on the Lions selection *all* of them thought Hartley was hugely lucky to have been selected above him, and most had him in their starting 15. Quite frankly, Gatland is a cunt. His discussion of the decision suggests he took the call on this one against the advice of his fellow selectors. I don't want to believe his history with Best (who Gatland criticised for comments he made before an Ireland/ Wales game) wasn't influencing him, but I think it is possible. It was a bad call. I can see him being called in about 4 weeks into the tour, but he should have been on the plane.
 
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