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The business of football - what do you want to know?

Discussion in 'The Football Forum' started by Beamrider, Dec 5, 2019.

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  1. 6TimesaRed

    6TimesaRed Not a Bot.... Administrator

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    Questions...

    Transfer funds.. when a club says they  have x amount to spend is that usually taking wages into account  ?

    Regarding Bielsa derby "scandal"why the hell was so much made of it, when essentially this always goes on..

    What the funniest "spying' you have heard ?

    3rd party ownership, yeh we know it's against FA rules.  but what are the loopholes..

    Was the Evertons - David Moyes, Mike England moment with defender Per Krøldrup true..?  it was alleged the scouting report,  identifed the wrong player by name, and they bought Kroldrup instead of his CB partner from Udinese which the scoring report was for..

    What other instances have you heard like this ?
     
  2. Bradley

    Bradley Well-Known Member

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    When will this br going behind the pay wall for Gold members?
     
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  3. Beamrider

    Beamrider SCM Follower Member

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    Transfer funds - I imagine that most of the time when you see this it hasn't come from the club in question - other than Arsenal's constant leaking of a huge budget they then don't spend (which is always mentioned around season ticket renewal time). I don't see what the benefit would be for a club in leaking. These figures are usually manufactured by journalists or people pretending they're in the know, but I always take them to refer to the transfer fees only (so in my example, the £40m net transfer fee). As far as wages are concerned, a player coming in often replaces one going out so usually the impact of wages is relatively small on a net basis and will form part of a club's overall planning. You do see some reports that include transfer fee plus wages on an individual deal, but usually that's just spin to make a fairly boring deal sound more exciting.

    Bielsa - I really don't know. I'm sure this goes on everywhere. Top flight clubs seem to be always complaining about drones watching their training and some clubs don't seem to like training at the away ground on European trips because of the risk of spying. I think with Bielsa it became a big deal because he was so unapologetic about it and the Derby fans made a big deal of it. I'm sure he had that attitude because he knew it went on everywhere and I expect it was met with shrugged shoulders by most of the football community - in other news, bear shits in woods.

    With third party ownership, it would be really difficult to get a deal cleared by the English FA even if there was only a history of TPO (and I think this is often the main reason behind unexplained delays when players are signed from South America or one or two FAs in Europe where they have been more relaxed about it - e.g. Portugal). I imagine there are still clubs out there with some shady TPO dealings going on via complex company structures which can't be easily traced back to them. I have no proof, but I have always suspected that this was what all the controversy about the huge agent fee on the Pogba deal was all about. The suggestion was the agent earned a fee based on the profit made by Juventus and that reeked of trying to replicate TPO. So even if the agent didn't own at least part of the player's economic rights, he appeared to have a deal with Juve that gave him an equivalent benefit, and that could probably have been considered to be TPO.

    Don't know re Kroldrup. I did hear the same story but it wasn't through any football sources, just hearsay on forums. It always seemed credible. I've not heard of similar instances. I think clubs in England have been a lot more careful since the Kroldrup deal. Clearly there are still instances where really below par players get signed, and sometimes that's just because clubs play a long game with the hope of getting a better player from the same club / agent further down the line. Maybe Bournemouth think we're going to sell VVD to them at some point :)
     
  4. My_Blood_Bleeds_Red

    My_Blood_Bleeds_Red Very Active Member

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    Back in the day we had to pay an astronomical fee for insider knowledge such as these, only crappier.

    You don't happen to know a person called Dunk do you ?
     
  5. Hyena

    Hyena Well-Known Member

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    1.How friendly are the clubs with each other? For example , do the management of Utd and Liverpool hate each other like the fans do, or are they actually kind of chummy?

    2. What is a typical routine non-match day at the club like?  Is it kind of chill, or high tempo, intense training?

    3. Agents - do clubs hate them , or love them ?
     
  6. bluebell

    bluebell Very Active Member

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    Which class club is wealthier City or PSG?
     
  7. momoWASboss

    momoWASboss Very Well-Known Member

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    Do the lads accidentally send the manager absolute filth on whatsapp?
     
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  8. gene hughes

    gene hughes Part of the Furniture Member

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    Still no answer on Megson. You’re even more of a let down than that movie The Meg. At least it had a shark.
     
  9. Beamrider

    Beamrider SCM Follower Member

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    1. Varies club by club. Most clubs get on with each other and are happy to work together on things, but in some cases the rivalries get in the way. Can't speak for particular rivalries but it's fair to say City aren't too popular with the other clubs at the moment as they all perceive that City have gamed the system on FFP and obtained an unfair advantage. I didn't have a great deal of interaction with other clubs, other than when we were doing business with each other. There will also be occasions when clubs are bidding for the same thing (players, sponsors etc) and obviously there is no co-operation there. But where there is mutual benefit in sharing information (e.g. to ensure clubs take a consistent approach or apply similar standards) then it generally happens and the Premier League / Football League will often intervene to facilitate that (e.g. they might commission some central advice on a particular legal / financial / safeguarding issue and then share it with all clubs to ensure consistency). You can usually gauge this by looking at the directors' box on a matchday - some clubs' officials are quite happy to mingle, others choose their corners and stick to them. Usually the chairmen are quite pally with each other, but by the same measure they'll happily gang up on each other when it suits (hence all the stories you hear about tense meetings when the clubs get together at Premier League meetings). They'll be pally to a point, but will always look out for their own club's interests.
    2. Don't know, I didn't get to see any training sessions. Think it's what you'd expect - easy recovery day the day after a match with tests for injuries / general fitness and then build fitness / tactical training ahead of the next match. Each club will have a different approach and usually that's dictated by the manager or his fitness coaches (if he has them).
    3. Bit of both. Clubs resent the fees they have to pay to agents, but they recognise that they are often required to get deals done, especially when a deal is time critical. An agent can often help clubs overcome obstacles by playing devil's advocate in negotiations (e.g. they can persuade a player to stop being unreasonable) and they can also be useful when a club is looking to off-load a player in that they'll go off and seek to sell the player to potential buyers when the club wouldn't have the time or the contacts to do that. They also provide a layer of deniability - so, for example, if an agent is seeking to get a player sold, the club can deny he has their authority to do so if it comes out and it suits them to take that line. I think they can also be useful when a player gets into trouble off the field as they can act as "fixers" in a way a club can't (not suggesting anything hugely sinister there, but a lot of players have short arms and deep pockets, so will look to their agent to help them out when a club says no). But the extent of the fees is a problem, and the fees seem to be going up and up and in the most straight-forward deals the agent won't offer any real value. In theory, the club will also rely on an agent to keep the player sweet, but the reality is if an agent has had all the payments due to him under his contract, it may be in his best interests to move the player on and get some more fees from the next club.
     
  10. Beamrider

    Beamrider SCM Follower Member

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    No, that's usually deliberate, but not on their own phones like.
     
  11. doctor_mac

    doctor_mac My cowboy name is Garland Justice Moderator

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    You just made me hard.
     
  12. Ijg

    Ijg Well-Known Member

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    I like you beam boy, please stay.
     
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  13. Ijg

    Ijg Well-Known Member

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    Really cool thread tbf, thanks.
     
  14. StevieM

    StevieM SCM's resident Beer Nazi, Wine Snob & Comic Geek Honorary Member

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    I did.

    Pre-season friendly against Melbourne Victory in the twilight of his career when he was leading the line for the great Whittlesea Zebras.

    Kevin Muscat booted him up in the air and he went down squealing.

    Not much else happened.
     
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  15. StevieM

    StevieM SCM's resident Beer Nazi, Wine Snob & Comic Geek Honorary Member

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    Dantes may have got to him.

    Like he got to Oncy.
     
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  16. Rosco

    Rosco Worse than Brendan Honorary Member

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    And you still got great value for the price of admission
     
  17. LeTallecWiz

    LeTallecWiz Mo(ssa)d Administrator

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    You only get one of these - and I'll happily oblige.
    Is that your final request sir?
     
  18. LeTallecWiz

    LeTallecWiz Mo(ssa)d Administrator

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    one of the best threads we've had in a long time - we know @Beamrider is legit as he's not tried to sell his great paintings (yet)
     
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  19. Brizzle

    Brizzle Very Well-Known Member

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    What do you think are the next 2-3 biggest battlegrounds for clubs wanting to take sponsorships/ corporate deals to the next level?
     
  20. Vonblonberg

    Vonblonberg Active Member

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    I have never worked in football, but I am prepared to give some educated guesses and vague approximations of familiar situations if that be your want?
     
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