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Liverpool accused of falsifying document in tapping-up scandal

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King Binny

Part of the Furniture
Honorary Member
Oh, and I forgot about the schoolboy tap up case while discussing about the transfer committee in the FSG thread.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...ool-accused-falsifying-document-heart-tapped/
[article]The Liverpool tapping-up scandal was dramatically reignited on Tuesday after they were accused of submitting a “falsified” document to the Premier League when trying to lure a 12-year-old schoolboy from Stoke City.

The Anfield club are facing imminent legal action from the unnamed boy, now 13, and his family, having failed to make amends for leaving both him unable to play academy football and his parents in thousands of pounds of debt more than three months after Telegraph Sport first revealed their plight.

Compounding the litany of transgressions over which Liverpool became the first club to be punished under strict new Premier League rules - and the lengths to which they were allegedly prepared to go to conceal them - they have now been publicly accused of altering the date of a signature on his academy player registration application.

Father and son completed the document on September 2 last year, three days before the latter began the new school year at his private school, the fees for which Liverpool had agreed to pay until he was 16.

The club directed the pair not to date their signatures, an instruction the father ignored to ensure the moment was accurately recorded.

The next time the family saw the document - after it had been submitted to the Premier League - all the signatures on it were dated September 21, including the father’s, beneath which a ‘1’ had been inserted after his initial ‘2’.

The new date made it appear he and his son had signed more than two weeks after the latter had started school, rather than three days beforehand.

“If that is not falsifying a document, I don’t know what is,” the father told the Telegraph on Tuesday night.

He also confirmed he had informed the Premier League of the unauthorised date change when he originally blew the whistle on Liverpool’s near two-year campaign to tap up his son, for which they were banned in April from signing players from rival academies for at least 12 months and fined £100,000.

The father accused the Premier League of failing to act over the document and questioned why it had also shelved an investigation last month into Liverpool’s tapping up of Southampton’s Virgil van Dijk.

“If this is how it deals with such matters then the Premier League is not fit for purpose,” he added.

Liverpool refused to deny altering the date of the father’s signature on the document without his consent or dating the other signatures September 21 before submitting it to the Premier League.

They said it was standard practice for such documents to be filed within a period of days after being completed and that, because other relevant paperwork was not ready by September 2 , a decision was made to leave the boy’s registration application undated.

They also said the reason for this was explained at the time to the family, who they even claimed had consented to it, despite the father’s dating of his own signature indicating otherwise.

They categorically denied “falsifying” the document or changing the date to make it appear the club had not agreed to pay the boy’s school fees until after he had begun his new school year.The Premier League confirmed it had “considered” the date change allegation as part of its tapping-up investigation, which it said was at an end.

The family wants a court to rule on the matter as part a lawsuit over the boy’s school fees and £49,000 in compensation owed to Stoke for the four years they spent developing him, which is preventing him joining another academy.

Liverpool would have paid both had their attempts to sign the boy not collapsed thanks to a crackdown last summer on Premier League clubs paying for their scholars to be privately educated.

The scandal has left the boy’s family £15,000 in debt and him in constant threat of being thrown out of school for non-payment of his fees.

Talks have taken place aimed at averting a bitter court battle, the family’s case having been boosted by Manchester City agreeing to pay the entire school fees and training compensation of two schoolboys they were found guilty of tapping up.

The father said: “What Liverpool have done brings shame on that football club. They have ruined my son’s career and left him in despair. He has been in limbo for a year now, thanks to the £49,000 price on his head, and is being blackballed by other clubs. No-one will touch him.

“The Premier League’s handling of this case has only made matters worse.

“The richest league in the world sells its dream of football to youngsters across the globe but its rules have created a nightmare for my lad.

“The Premier League is supposed to regulate these football clubs but, to me, it feels more like a private members’ club where everyone looks after each other.

“All it and its clubs seem to care about is making sure they keep getting their tens of millions of pounds.

“The fact a 13-year-old child can no longer pursue his dream of playing football doesn’t appear to matter.

“As a responsible parent, I call on the Government to intervene before we have a generation of damaged children.”

The boy, who broke his silence on the matter in an exclusive interview with the Telegraph in May, added: “In the past 12 months, my whole world has crashed around me. Some mornings, I wake up and think it has been a bad dream.

“I miss playing football so much. It was such a massive part of my life. I used to come home from school and could not wait to go to training sessions.

“All of these people in high places need to look at what their rules do to everyday kids like me. We are promised all of these great things and then, when it suits, we are just dropped.

“I gave everything I had to football and thoroughly enjoyed every minute.

“Now I am being punished and I have no idea what for.”

A Premier League spokesman said: “We remain in dialogue with the parties involved with a view to finding a constructive outcome for the young player involved.”[/article]

[article]
Liverpool tapping-up saga Q&A | How was the case exposed?
Why have Liverpool been hit with a transfer ban on academy players?

They tapped up and offered inducements to a Stoke City schoolboy and his family in order to lure him to Anfield. Both are against rules brought in to prevent the poaching of players who clubs invest time and money in developing. They were banned from signing for at least a year players who had been registered at another academy during the previous 18 months. A further one-year ban was suspended for three years and the club were also fined £100,000.

What did Liverpool do wrong?

The Premier League found Liverpool had arranged an all-expenses-paid trip for the boy and his family to a game at Anfield and had made "other efforts" to lure him from Stoke. Those "other efforts" include alleged conduct revealed for the first time today by The Telegraph. Liverpool did eventually make a legitimate approach to sign the boy from Stoke but only after having broken the rules.

How was the case exposed?

Liverpool offered to take over the payment of the boy's private school fees from Stoke but when they tried to complete his signing, the Premier League informed them that was no longer allowed following a rule change in July prohibiting the practice by clubs unless they make the same offer to all their scholars. Liverpool then withdrew their offer, leaving the boy's parents £5,000 in debt because he had already started school. The family duly pulled out of the deal and complained to the Premier League, revealing the tapping-up in the process.

Why can the boy not join another academy?

Because of a controversial academy transfer system that ensures clubs who develop young players are compensated when they move on. In the boy's case, Stoke were entitled to £49,000: £3,000 for each of his first three years with them and £40,000 for the fourth. Liverpool would have been liable for this had he joined them. The boy cannot join another academy unless the new club are prepared to pay the compensation or Stoke waive it.

What happens next?

The boy and his family are exploring legal action against Liverpool, while Stoke are pursuing compensation from the Premier League, which is now under pressure to prevent other boys suffering the same plight. While the Premier League's new five-step process for ratifying academy transfers is welcome, it does not go far enough to safeguard the rights of vulnerable families.

So this may not be a one-off?

Suspicion is rife that there is a culture of tapping-up and inducements in the academy game. The Stoke chairman, Peter Coates, last week told The Telegraph matter-of-factly after Liverpool were punished: "Unfortunately, they are not alone. It happens and sometimes they get caught."
[/article]

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I will say I hope this goes to court, the dumbass club deny to the court that they falsified the date, then the boy's lawyers to ask for the inked original document, send it to John Moore's to be analysed under a scanning electron microscope, categorically prove that the '2' and '1' were marked at different times with different pens, call in a few expert witnesses, then send our fucking 22 year old dumbass statistician/graduate/scout to prison for contempt of court. Not a nice prison either. One where he'll be raped. That's a bit harsh I guess, maybe one where he'll just have a shit beaten out of him.
 
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This probably happened, and we probably won't get in anymore trouble regarding it. Premier league was aware of this during the initial investigation and it factored into the initial charge.
 
What's the point in doing dodgy shit like this if you're not prepared to do more dodgy shit to hush it up. United , Chelsea and a host of others would have paid the family and Stoke off and not had to go through more mud slinging but no our lot think they know it all. Penny pinching cunts.
Maybe John henry will blame the fans again for not letting him put the ticket prices up.
 
Not a great look at all, but everyone''s at it. The key is obviously not getting caught. And not doing shit like falsifying documents.
 
So far no other clubs hasn't been punished under this ruling I think. Are we so amateurish, or are other clubs not doing it?
 
Haven't City?
Don't think they violated these (updated) rules

Violated but pales in comparison to ours

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...ity-hit-transfer-ban-signing-academy-players/

[article]Manchester City have joined Liverpool in being banned from signing academy players for tapping-up two schoolboys – including one aged just 11.

City were given the same length suspension as the Anfield club, a two-year transfer embargo on players registered with a rival Premier League or EFL side in the preceding 18 months, with the second year’s ban suspended for three years.

They were also fined £300,000, £200,000 more than Liverpool, who were last month found guilty of tapping up one schoolboy footballer and offering inducements to him and his family.

The fallout from that case has been exclusively documented by The Telegraph, which also revealed that City’s recruitment of three academy players was under scrutiny.

The 11-year-old, now 12, they were found to have broken the rules trying to sign was a midfielder who joined them from Everton last summer, the other being a 15-year-old midfielder from Wolverhampton Wanderers.

The club, who unlike Liverpool were not found guilty of offering inducements, were also investigated over their recruitment of 15-year-old goalkeeper Louie Moulden, now 16, from Anfield but that move was cleared to proceed.

The Premier League said in a statement: “Following an investigation, the Premier League found evidence that the club’s conduct prior to applying to register the players contravened League rules.

“This included evidence of contact between the club and members of each academy player’s family while those academy players were still registered with their previous clubs.

“Manchester City will pay a fine of £300,000 and will be prohibited from registering any academy players in the under-10 to under-18 age range who have been registered with a Premier League or EFL club in the preceding 18 months. This ban will last for two years.

The period of this ban from June 30, 2018, onwards will be suspended for three years to be activated in the event of any similar breach by the club.

“In each case, the academy player was conditionally registered with Manchester City while the Premier League’s investigation was ongoing. As a result of the club’s breaches, the players’ registrations will be terminated on a specified date, with no compensation rights retained by the club, and the club will not be permitted to re-register them as academy players.

“In addition, Manchester City has offered to pay compensation to each player’s previous club, and maintain educational provision for each player until the completion of his GCSEs.”

City’s agreement to pay compensation to Everton and Wolves, as well as the private school fees of both youngsters until the age of 16, contrasted sharply with Liverpool’s response to their own tapping-up scandal. The 13-year-old boy whose move to Anfield from Stoke City collapsed was left unable to play for another academy until his parent club were paid £49,000.

His own parents were also lumbered with thousands of pounds of debt in private school fees Liverpool previously agreed to pay.

In an exclusive first interview with The Telegraph this week, the boy said the case had left him feeling “sad” and “stressed”, while his father claimed his own health had also suffered.

City insisted they would have paid the compensation and school fees of the boys they were guilty of tapping-up irrespective of the outcry sparked by the Liverpool scandal.

That outcry prompted the Premier League to reveal this week that it had offered to meet representatives of the boy’s family “with a view to finding a constructive outcome for the young person involved”.

Amid ongoing negotiations between the parties to avert legal action, his parents were unable to comment on Friday’s news.

Meanwhile, it is understood that while City will release the 11-year-old imminently, the 15-year-old will remain registered with them until he completes his GSCEs in order not to disrupt his education.

They and Liverpool are the first clubs to fall foul of tough new Premier League rules designed to clamp down on the poaching of academy players.

It was forced to introduce a new five-step process for ratifying such moves last summer, with one of those steps involving parents and clubs signing a declaration that no inducements have been offered for a schoolboy to switch allegiance.

The Premier League is able to demand the phone records of all involved if it has any suspicions to the contrary.

Clubs were also banned from offering to pay the private school fees of academy players unless they made the same offer to all their scholars.

City have long done that in partnership with top Manchester school St Bede’s, unlike Liverpool, who send their youngsters to local comprehensive Rainhill.[/article]
 
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Surely you have to appreciate that, where there are two or more counterparts of an agreement, it is not unusual to date the counterparts at the time of exchange, and not at the time of signing.

Dating in this manner records the time of mutual agreement, not the time of signing (which may occur some time before exchange and then say, posted to one party for exchange).

This practice isn't falsification. The father is making a meal out of nothing; he was told specifically not to date it.
 
I find the idea of clubs paying for schooling pretty distasteful anyway. I'd like to know much more about this father before jumping to any conclusion about this.
 
Surely you have to appreciate that, where there are two or more counterparts of an agreement, it is not unusual to date the counterparts at the time of exchange, and not at the time of signing.

Dating in this manner records the time of mutual agreement, not the time of signing (which may occur some time before exchange and then say, posted to one party for exchange).

This practice isn't falsification. The father is making a meal out of nothing; he was told specifically not to date it.

Then what about implied terms that are discussed between the 2nd and 21st? It can never be that way, or else you can include things retrospectively that could never have been implied when the party actually signed the paper. The club wasn't trying to give a consistent date of agreement, they changed the date the father signed the paperwork. They did this because in court they wanted to say he already paid the fees prior to the agreement and so he can't claim them as damages in contract. Those are the types of cunts I plan to murder in court. That my club is also a cunt genuinely pains me.
 
Then what about implied terms that are discussed between the 2nd and 21st? It can never be that way, or else you can include things retrospectively that could never have been implied when the party actually signed the paper. The club wasn't trying to give a consistent date of agreement, they changed the date the father signed the paperwork. They did this because in court they wanted to say he already paid the fees prior to the agreement and so he can't claim them as damages in contract. Those are the types of cunts I plan to murder in court. That my club is also a cunt genuinely pains me.

Well, what about implied terms? There are none raised in the article. The father doesn't contend that the content or substance of the agreement changed between the 2nd and the 21st.

He merely says that the alteration of the date ought to be treated as falsification.

For the reasons I have already set out, it is not. A party may choose to sign a counterpart ahead of exchange (perhaps it needs to be posted to the other party for exchange), but for myriad reasons, the other party may be unable to execute until a later date (for e.g. awaiting approval from a board of directors, subject to solicitors' comments, etc). It is the date that both parties are of common mind, i.e. when the counterparts are exchanged, that forms the date of the agreement.
 
Well, what about implied terms? There are none raised in the article. The father doesn't contend that the content or substance of the agreement changed between the 2nd and the 21st.

He merely says that the alteration of the date ought to be treated as falsification.

For the reasons I have already set out, it is not. A party may choose to sign a counterpart ahead of exchange (perhaps it needs to be posted to the other party for exchange), but for myriad reasons, the other party may be unable to execute until a later date (for e.g. awaiting approval from a board of directors, subject to solicitors' comments, etc). It is the date that both parties are of common mind, i.e. when the counterparts are exchanged, that forms the date of the agreement.


Interesting. Are you a legal eagle Rushie?
 
Well, what about implied terms? There are none raised in the article. The father doesn't contend that the content or substance of the agreement changed between the 2nd and the 21st.

He merely says that the alteration of the date ought to be treated as falsification.

For the reasons I have already set out, it is not. A party may choose to sign a counterpart ahead of exchange (perhaps it needs to be posted to the other party for exchange), but for myriad reasons, the other party may be unable to execute until a later date (for e.g. awaiting approval from a board of directors, subject to solicitors' comments, etc). It is the date that both parties are of common mind, i.e. when the counterparts are exchanged, that forms the date of the agreement.

Implied terms are why the date each party signs the contract is not a trivial detail. On the 3rd the club could have emailed the father saying oh, by the way he can only go to a boys only school. Had he signed the contract on the 21st, then it would be an implied term. Had he signed it on the 1st, then it would be a variation of contract which would only be valid if there is something in it for the boy. That's the argument they'd be having in court, so changing the date of the signature is falsification.

In this case, the club are not altering dates just for the hell of it. The 2nd fell before the boy enrolled at the school, and the 21st fell after. So when the club were in breach of contract that date does make a legal difference. On the one hand the contract enabled the boy to go to a school he was otherwise not going to attend. On the other hand he was already at the school regardless of the contract, so what damage has been done to him? Do you see how that changes the club's liability. If the contract was in the former terms, then the boy has been robbed of a superior education as well as the small chance of making it as a footballer. Those sorts of damages worked out over the rest of his life could reach a million. With the falsified contract, the boy has only lost the chance to have his fees paid for, and it would be hard work to even get the £50k back because on the 21st it would have been in the fathers mind that the fees were to be paid whether or not the club offered a contract, so there would be no justification for him not having the cash, pulling his son out of the school, and claiming damages.
 
Interesting. Are you a legal eagle Rushie?

His legal analysis of the Suarez debacle inadvertently awoke the merciless litigant part of my own brain. He is probably entitled to a cut for that, alas I doubt he would show up to the car park in order to receive the brief case.
 
"Boy feel bullied in Denmark, father sends him to Stoke". "Boy feel unwelcome at Stoke"

We are not talking about the New Dunc Ferguson here are we??
 
I doubt there was an exchange here. It's not a big corporate M&A with multiple parts. It's just a simple contract to pay his fees.

The reason why it's important is not 'implied terms' as Dantes suggests, but he is generally right. It affects the measure of damages if he had sent the boy to an expensive school based on the agreement they had with Liverpool to pay the fees.

Anyway, I doubt Liverpool is holding back from paying the fees for the sake of it. They are afraid that doing so will be in further breach of PL regulations. It's not like we abandoned the deal and left him in the lurch.
 
Anyway there's nothing to stop other clubs from paying for him, or for Stoke to take over.

I suspect the reason no one wants to touch him is because he's got a dick for a father
 
I got the sense that the father was the problem too.

And exchange is not some corporate M&A event. It's a feature of all kinds of mundane contracts, e.g. a contract to purchase real property. It actually helps you avoid the kind of problems Dantes has dreamt up, since it is a clear point of reference for establishing common intention.
 
Wouldn't a well drafted contract avoid this by simply stipulating the date of the contract, or the date exchange as the effective date?

There's no need to change the date of execution.
 
You think Liverpool's lawyers are capable of producing a well drafted contract? What rushie says is all good in theory and principle, but when you have a dispute then the principle goes out of the window. It doesn't matter what a well drafted contracted is supposed to convey, it only matters what your barrister can prove to the judge. Whatever way you want to justify it, changing the date was a deliberate ploy to prove a lie to the judge if it ever came to that.
 
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