Klopp's Crop VS Rodgers' Reds

[mark1975]

How Jurgen Klopp's Liverpool compare to Brendan Rodgers' Premier League runners-up

Liverpool went top of the Premier League for the first time since May 2014 with their 6-1 thrashing of Watford on Sunday.

Their thrilling attacking performances are powering their title challenge and drawing parallels with Liverpool's 2013/14 side, who scored over 100 goals as they were pipped to the crown by Manchester City.

The Reds are aiming to go the distance under Jurgen Klopp this season, and their first 11 games have thrown up plenty of reasons for optimism.

2016/17 top four after 11 games

[xtable=skin1]
{thead}
{tr}
{th}Team{/th}
{th}W{/th}
{th}D{/th}
{th}L{/th}
{th}GF{/th}
{th}GA{/th}
{th}GD{/th}
{th}Pts{/th}
{/tr}
{/thead}
{tbody}
{tr}
{td}Liverpool{/td}
{td}8{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{td}30{/td}
{td}14{/td}
{td}+16{/td}
{td}26{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Chelsea{/td}
{td}8{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{td}26{/td}
{td}9{/td}
{td}+17{/td}
{td}25{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Man City{/td}
{td}7{/td}
{td}3{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{td}25{/td}
{td}10{/td}
{td}+15{/td}
{td}24{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Arsenal{/td}
{td}7{/td}
{td}3{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{td}24{/td}
{td}11{/td}
{td}+13{/td}
{td}24{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
A look back at the 2013/14 table shows they sat second at the same stage of the campaign, and this year they are also three points better off having scored nine more goals.
2013/14 top four after 11 games

[xtable=skin1]
{thead}
{tr}
{th}Team{/th}
{th}W{/th}
{th}D{/th}
{th}L{/th}
{th}GF{/th}
{th}GA{/th}
{th}GD{/th}
{th}Pts{/th}
{/tr}
{/thead}
{tbody}
{tr}
{td}Arsenal{/td}
{td}8{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{td}22{/td}
{td}10{/td}
{td}+12{/td}
{td}25{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Liverpool{/td}
{td}7{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{td}21{/td}
{td}10{/td}
{td}+11{/td}
{td}23{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Southampton{/td}
{td}6{/td}
{td}4{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{td}15{/td}
{td}5{/td}
{td}+10{/td}
{td}22{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Chelsea{/td}
{td}6{/td}
{td}3{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{td}18{/td}
{td}10{/td}
{td}+8{/td}
{td}21{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
Can they go one better than the class of 2013/14 and go on to lift the Premier League trophy?
Here, we look at how the two sides compare…

Line-ups

Rodgers favoured a 4-4-2 diamond formation in 2013/14, with Steven Gerrard in the holding role and Raheem Sterling at the tip of the midfield behind Luis Suarez and Daniel Sturridge.

This year's side has a very different feel. Jordan Henderson and Philippe Coutinho are the only 2013/14 starters to have survived, but they are playing new roles in Klopp's 4-3-3.
Henderson has replaced Gerrard as the deepest midfielder, while Coutinho now operates from the left of the attack. Rodgers' side was fuelled by Luis Suarez and Daniel Sturridge, but from having two out-and-out strikers three years ago, the Reds now play with Roberto Firmino as a false nine in a fluid front three.

Transfer fees have sky-rocketed in recent seasons, so it is no surprise that this year's Liverpool side was the more expensive to assemble. Klopp's starting XI includes six £20m-plus players compared to just two in 2013/14, with Sadio Mane costing over £13m more than Luis Suarez.

Goals scored

Liverpool smashed 101 goals in 38 games in 2013/14 and they have been similarly prolific this season. In fact, with 30 in 11 so far, they are scoring at an almost identical rate of 2.7 per game.

Roberto Firmino and Philippe Coutinho have scored 10 goals between them
The real test for Liverpool is whether they can keep it up for the duration of the season as they did in 2013/14, but the signs are certainly encouraging for Klopp's side.
Liverpool have scored four or more goals in five Premier League games this season, meaning they are nearly halfway to matching their 2013/14 total of four-goal hauls (11) with over two-thirds of the campaign still to play.

Liverpool attacking comparison (stats per game)

[xtable=skin1]
{thead}
{tr}
{th}Stat{/th}
{th}2013/14{/th}
{th}2016/17{/th}
{/tr}
{/thead}
{tbody}
{tr}
{td}Goals scored{/td}
{td}2.7{/td}
{td}2.7{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Shots{/td}
{td}17.1{/td}
{td}19.1{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Shots on target{/td}
{td}6.8{/td}
{td}7.8{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
The underlying statistics are also on the up, with Liverpool taking more shots and hitting the target more frequently this season than they did under Rodgers in 2013/14.

Goalscorers

Liverpool's 2013/14 title charge was driven by Suarez and Sturridge. With 31 and 21 goals apiece, they accounted for over 50 per cent of Liverpool's total. Gerrard was the only other player to hit double figures.
This year, they are sharing the goals around. Sadio Mane, Coutinho and Firmino are already well on their way to reaching double figures, while James Milner is also racking up the goals from the penalty spot and Adam Lallana has chipped in with three.

Luis Suarez and Daniel Sturridge scored 52 goals between them in 2013/14
Liverpool had 12 different Premier League scorers in the whole of the season they finished runners-up, but they already have 10 this year. At the same stage of the 2013/14 campaign, only five different players had found the net in Sturridge, Suarez, Gerrard, Victor Moses and Martin Skrtel.
With so many players stepping up and hitting the back of the net, Klopp's side might find themselves better-equipped to cope if they lose key players to injuries.

Workrate

Rodgers' 2013/14 side were known for their speed and aggression but Premier League tracking data shows that Liverpool are considerably more industrious under Klopp.

Jordan Henderson and Roberto Firmino put Francis Coquelin under pressure
The Reds are running an average of nine kilometers further than they did in 2013/14, and the numbers also highlight their high-intensity pressing tactics.
Klopp asks his players to work tirelessly to pressure opponents and regain possession all over the pitch, and their superior workrate is shown by the fact that they are averaging nearly 100 more sprints per game than Rodgers's side in 2013/14.

Liverpool running comparison (stats per game)

[xtable=skin1]
{thead}
{tr}
{th}Stat{/th}
{th}2013/14{/th}
{th}2016/17{/th}
{/tr}
{/thead}
{tbody}
{tr}
{td}Distance covered{/td}
{td}107.7{/td}
{td}116.4{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Sprints{/td}
{td}492.7{/td}
{td}593.4{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
Like Rodgers' side three years ago, Klopp's men are able to focus all their energy on the Premier League as they do not have European commitments to contend with.

Defence

As with Rodgers' side, who conceded 50 goals in 2013/14, Klopp's Liverpool are showing signs of defensive vulnerability as well as attacking verve. Their average of 1.3 goals conceded per game is practically identical to three years ago.

Dejan Lovren is a regular starter in Jurgen Klopp's central defence
More worrying for Klopp's side, however, is that they are facing 12.6 shots per game. It's more than any of their title rivals, and it's a lot more than in 2013/14, when their average of 8.1 shots faced per game was in fact the lowest in the Premier League.

Error-prone?

Only West Ham (four) have made more errors leading to opposition goals than Liverpool (three) this season
Liverpool kept 10 clean sheets under Rodgers in 2013/14. So far this season they have only kept one in 11 games. It's not too much of a concern at the moment, but it could become an issue if the goals dry up at the other end.

Liverpool defensive comparison (stats per game)

[xtable=skin1]
{thead}
{tr}
{th}Stat{/th}
{th}2013/14{/th}
{th}2016/17{/th}
{/tr}
{/thead}
{tbody}
{tr}
{td}Goals conceded{/td}
{td}1.3{/td}
{td}1.3{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Shots faced{/td}
{td}8.1{/td}
{td}12.6{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]

What the managers said

Klopp moved to play down Liverpool's strong start on Sunday, saying: "If somebody thinks being one point ahead after 11 match days is a big sign for the rest of the season then I can't help this person. We stay cool. It's the best position I can imagine but nothing else has happened."

Liverpool boss Jurgen Klopp says there are still things to improve on after the 6-1 win over Watford
His comments echo the words of Rodgers at a similar stage of the 2013/14 season. The Northern Irishman insisted Liverpool wouldn't get carried away and added that there was much more to come.

I think it's an exciting thought that we haven't got near our full potential yet but we've collected the points.

Brendan Rodgers, November 2013
"For us to be up there in that top four with improvements still to be made can be classed as a good start," he said. "I think it's an exciting thought that we haven't got near our full potential yet but we've collected the points."

Lessons to learn

There is not a great deal Klopp's men can learn from the unfortunate Gerrard slip that cost Rodgers' side so dearly against Chelsea at the end of April in 2014, but the 3-3 draw with Crystal Palace in their following game was a valuable lesson that should not be forgotten.
The Reds surrendered a three-goal lead in the space of nine crazy minutes at Selhurst Park. It all but ended their slim title hopes after their 2-0 defeat to Chelsea, and it was a reminder of the risks of an expansive, attacking playing style.

Luis Suarez leaves the pitch in tears after Liverpool's 3-3 draw with Crystal Palace in May 2014
"They've been getting away with it," said their former centre-back Jamie Carragher in the aftermath of that game. "Tonight they didn't get away with it and it's probably cost them the league title."
Klopp's attacking philosophy is paying dividends for now, but to succeed where the class of 2013/14 failed, there may come a time when they need to prioritise steel over style.

 

[Windom Earle]

For me, there's a far more collaborative feel to it this time around. If one or two don't perform, there are another three or four out on the pitch (never mind the bench!) who can pick up the slack.

There was also something a bit out of character about 13/14. It was at odds with the philosphy and playing style we saw from Rodgers in 12/13 and 14/15, whereas this year feels very much like a continuation of Klopp's first half season and what we are ultimately building towards.

Fuck knows if the wheels will come off this time around, but by God has it been fun to watch so far.

Thanks for putting the article up, Mark.

 

[mark1975]

For me, there's a far more collaborative feel to it this time around. If one or two don't perform, there are another three or four out on the pitch (never mind the bench!) who can pick up the slack.

There was also something a bit out of character about 13/14. It was at odds with the philosphy and playing style we saw from Rodgers in 12/13 and 14/15, whereas this year feels very much like a continuation of Klopp's first half season and what we are ultimately building towards.

Fuck knows if the wheels will come off this time around, but by God has it been fun to watch so far.

Thanks for putting the article up, Mark.

No worries mate. I think that although we had two big scorers, people sort of understate the contributions of the likes of Gerrard, Henderson, Sterling and Coutinho that season. The Spurs game for example saw Suarez hit 2, with Sterling, Henderson, Flanagan also scoring. By the end of the season, Suarez and Sturridge ran away with the goals tally, but we still got a good 50 goals from elsewhere.

I think although the defensive records are largely the same this time, we don't look as brittle (strangely), or certainly more in control with Matip back there, that can only improve as the season progresses.

 

[Windom Earle]

No worries mate. I think that although we had two big scorers, people sort of understate the contributions of the likes of Gerrard, Henderson, Sterling and Coutinho that season. The Spurs game for example saw Suarez hit 2, with Sterling, Henderson, Flanagan also scoring. By the end of the season, Suarez and Sturridge ran away with the goals tally, but we still got a good 50 goals from elsewhere.

I think although the defensive records are largely the same this time, we don't look as brittle (strangely), or certainly more in control with Matip back there, that can only improve as the season progresses.

Suarez (31), Sturridge (21) and Gerrard (13) shared 65 goals between them that season, meaning that the rest of the squad contributed 36 goals - or five goals more than Suarez' personal haul. Contrast that to this season, where at present our top three scorers are all pretty much tied (Mané ahead by one).

I don't get the feeling we will see a Suarez like record from one individual player in this squad, but on current form we can still end up around 100 goals regardless.

We are much more a sum of our parts this time around, in my opinion.

And I agree with your opinion on the defence. As leaky as we have been, we look less brittle and I think that mentally we certainly are, heads are not dropping this year after conceding which is in contrast to even parts of the close of last season.

 

[Judge Jules]

We do look less brittle but that's not really saying a lot IMHO. In a head-to-head I still reckon the SAS would win it for Rodgers' team. When the current side tightens up sufficiently for that not to be the case any longer, we'll know we've properly arrived.

 

[Windom Earle]

We do look less brittle but that's not really saying a lot IMHO. In a head-to-head I still reckon the SAS would win it for Rodgers' team. When the current side tightens up sufficiently for that not to be the case any longer, we'll know we've properly arrived.

The problem with Rodgers' side is that it had no longevity. More than a few players displayed a fair amount of mental frailty, and the team was never the same again after losing Suarez in either playing style or efficiency. It was a flash in the pan.

Klopp's style of play carries a lot of similarities to Rodgers' of 13/14, but I'm not convinced that Rodgers' side could keep up with the stamina that this team displays right now, there's an inevitability in each game that I didn't feel in that season.

 

[mark1975]

I think it had the wrong balance in key positions, notably the goalkeeper, at centre half and (although Gerrard did a good job) in central midfield too. We lacked discipline and composure in all three positions. The jury is still out on the goalkeeper, but Matip has provided composure and we look more unified in open play, we certainly look less likely to get caught on the break, but concentration does still let us down occasionally and setpieces remain our achilles heel. Henderson has been a revelation at holding midfield. For a few games I thought it looked like Gerrard Mark II, an experiment that would fail to address our gaping defensive vulnerabilities.

It's sort of ironic that a midfield triangle of Henderson, Lallana and Wijnaldum has seen us toughen up, when they are three players you would almost call lightweight. The three of them are tenacious and quick to release the ball, they harrrass the shit out of the opposition without the need for a stereotypical tough guy in there. Can looks almost sluggish in comparison and many waged him to replace Henderson fully this season, but if anything Can is the 4th guy in the pecking order for the 3 positions, because he lacks the agility of the other three.

 

[Windom Earle]

I think it had the wrong balance in key positions, notably the goalkeeper, at centre half and (although Gerrard did a good job) in central midfield too. We lacked discipline and composure in all three positions. The jury is still out on the goalkeeper, but Matip has provided composure and we look more unified in open play, we certainly look less likely to get caught on the break, but concentration does still let us down occasionally and setpieces remain our achilles heel. Henderson has been a revelation at holding midfield. For a few games I thought it looked like Gerrard Mark II, an experiment that would fail to address our gaping defensive vulnerabilities.

It's sort of ironic that a midfield triangle of Henderson, Lallana and Wijnaldum has seen us toughen up, when they are three players you would almost call lightweight. The three of them are tenacious and quick to release the ball, they harrrass the shit out of the opposition without the need for a stereotypical tough guy in there. Can looks almost sluggish in comparison and many waged him to replace Henderson fully this season, but if anything Can is the 4th guy in the pecking order for the 3 positions, because he lacks the agility of the other three.

It's absolutely the speed of the three of them for me. It's the one thing that I think has really transformed our attacking play from last year. They recycle the ball so quickly and efficiently once they have won it back that it's like playing with an extra man.

I agree Henderson has been fantastic, so too has Lallana. His vision and quality have gone up a notch from last year, he's seeing passes and he's making them in the final third. He's harrassing and when he wins the ball he's shrugged off all of those previous similarities to Yossi Benayoun.

Wijnaldum has a different role to the one he played at Newcastle and his contribution goes unnoticed at times, but I think he is vital to this midfield three - as you point out, the difference is quite stark at times when we have Can in there for him.

The way Klopp has built this midfield three and then the rest of the play around it, shows what level he is operating at.

 

[mark1975]

Can still has a role to play, and I think when you look at the progression of Lallana and Henderson, Can has all the tools to improve. His main flaw at the minute is running down blind alleys and keeping hold of the ball too long, something Lallana was guilty of previously.

 

[manwithnoname]

Still think both teams have obvious issues in defence, and also lack that midfield enforcer that stiffens any team and adds a bit of nastiness and resolve

Henderson has been doing a fairly good impression of one, though.

Agree that Klopp appears to have a clearer vision of what he wants his team to do, and how they should play, because Rodgers' philosophy seemed to change with the wind, and - perhaps unfairly - the great SAS strike force dictated what we did, rather than any managerial influence

Sorry Mark

 

[Windom Earle]

Can still has a role to play, and I think when you look at the progression of Lallana and Henderson, Can has all the tools to improve. His main flaw at the minute is running down blind alleys and keeping hold of the ball too long, something Lallana was guilty of previously.

For me, Can's position is where Wijnaldum plays. I don't think he's quite got the discipline to sit deep as Henderson does, nor do I think he does the cute stuff well enough to be as effective where Lallana is.

He does have vision though, he can spot a pass (Southampton drubbing last year, that pass for Origi).

I've not see him enough this year to get a handle on where Klopp sees him. What position did Can take up against Watford? I was at work, so wasn't able to fully concentrate on the game.

 

[manwithnoname]

That's a go0d question.

 

[rurikbird]

I thought Can did well against Watford – I originally wanted Wijnaldum to start instead of him, but I think Can provided that extra physicality that the team needed in this game, particularly with Lucas playing instead of Lovren. He also likes to get into the box and has been scoring important goals lately. He started in a more advanced midfield position, often running down the left flank whenever Coutinho decided to stay in the middle, but in the 2nd half I thought he played deeper alongside Henderson – this allowed Hendo to join some attacks as well since he knew Can would cover for him in midfield.

Klopp said it was a close decision between Can and Wijnaldum, but he probably made the right one, yet again.

 

[mark1975]

Still think both teams have obvious issues in defence, and also lack that midfield enforcer that stiffens any team and adds a bit of nastiness and resolve

Henderson has been doing a fairly good impression of one, though.

Agree that Klopp appears to have a clearer vision of what he wants his team to do, and how they should play, because Rodgers' philosophy seemed to change with the wind, and - perhaps unfairly - the great SAS strike force dictated what we did, rather than any managerial influence

Sorry Mark

What's there to be sorry about? I think like anything, sometimes you get lucky with some players. Our last few managers have been fortunate in that sense. Houllier had Owen and Gerrard, Rafa had Gerrard & Carragher at their absolute peak, Rodgers had Suarez and Gerrard, Klopp has had Coutinho and now the likes of Firmino and a few others are showing their worth. They all inherrited good players, because we've always had the makings of a good team or at the very least, a few top players capable of carrying a team a peg higher than what their collective worth would otherwise be.

As rightly pointed out, we're starting to look alot more of a quality collective now though, I don't think that was always the case with the other managers, or it certainly only happened for no more than a couple of seasons with each.

 

[manwithnoname]

I was apologising for what I feared might be another tedious, lengthy bout of Rodgers bashing

 

[mark1975]

I was apologising for what I feared might be another tedious, lengthy bout of Rodgers bashing

Oh yeah, you bastard!

 

[manwithnoname]

Relax, nobody has noticed. We can pretend it never happened.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

I think it had the wrong balance in key positions, notably the goalkeeper, at centre half and (although Gerrard did a good job) in central midfield too. We lacked discipline and composure in all three positions. The jury is still out on the goalkeeper, but Matip has provided composure and we look more unified in open play, we certainly look less likely to get caught on the break, but concentration does still let us down occasionally and setpieces remain our achilles heel. Henderson has been a revelation at holding midfield. For a few games I thought it looked like Gerrard Mark II, an experiment that would fail to address our gaping defensive vulnerabilities.

It's sort of ironic that a midfield triangle of Henderson, Lallana and Wijnaldum has seen us toughen up, when they are three players you would almost call lightweight. The three of them are tenacious and quick to release the ball, they harrrass the shit out of the opposition without the need for a stereotypical tough guy in there. Can looks almost sluggish in comparison and many waged him to replace Henderson fully this season, but if anything Can is the 4th guy in the pecking order for the 3 positions, because he lacks the agility of the other three.

You get a like from me for that post, although I would say that Can, at least appears to be somewhat more of a goal threat than Henderson or Wijnaldum. I'm not saying that he is a better choice in our midfield because I agree about his agility, but he just seems more direct and aggressive, which has its merits in games that require a more physical approach.

 

[6TimesaRed]

Rodgers was Great Pretender. Klopp is for Real.. [emoji3]

(sorry just my attempt at winding Markey up)

Rodgers Team relied up individuals where as Klopps doesn't necessarily, we are more of a Team under Klopp

Rodgers Team played to outscore the opposition, Klopps team doesn't really need to do that.

Rodgers Team only had a few Goalscorers throughout the team, Klopp team has plenty of them throughout the team chipping in with the goals.

Rodgers Team lacked Strength and Depth, limited bench options. Klopps has plenty of options..




Style of football wise. I enjoyed both, but I feel far more optimistic about the teams progress this time around.

 

[peekay]

Too early to make the comparison IMO.

If my memory is correct the first seven games of 2013/2014, we kept it tight and relied on Sturridge's finishing to grind out several close victories. It was only after Suarez came into the side after his ban, that we slowly picked up speed. If you are looking at game related statistics, Rodgers LFC didnt start to look impressive until the 12th and 13th game. The 5-0 win against Spurs away in December was the first real message to the rest of the PL.

Yes, Rodgers team had structural issues and I was very critical of him in the following seasons. But now that he has gone and the negative emotions have calmed down with time. The first 30 minutes of the win against Everton and Arsenal where we just blew them away still remains the benchmark in high quality attacking football in my mind.

I also think the title run experience will help Henderson, Coutinho and hopefully us fans also in being more calm in the second half of the season.

 

[moron]

@peekay so true as that is how i remember. Sturridge was scoring his best goals in those early games of that season.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

All this thread does for me is make me miss Suarez. It was fucking glorious having that mad bastard play for Liverpool.

 

[doctor_mac]

That away win to Spurs was also really special. That was a good Spurs team, and we destroyed them away. It was terrific.

 

[peekay]

That away win to Spurs was also really special. That was a good Spurs team, and we destroyed them away. It was terrific.

Rodgers had Spurs number. Even in the next season when we started poorly, we dicked them 3-0.

 

[YNWA]

All this thread does for me is make me miss Suarez. It was fucking glorious having that mad bastard play for Liverpool.

Not a Suarez thread, however your post made me go look up his goals for us.

 

[juniormember]

Pure genius.

 

[doctor_mac]

Rodgers had Spurs number. Even in the next season when we started poorly, we dicked them 3-0.

And we beat them soundly at Anfield too. The thing I still remember most about that match was Flanno flattening Soldado with a fucking beautiful and brutal tackle on the edge of the box.

NSFW: Brutality and profanity in this vine

 

[manwithnoname]

Brilliant