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Aquilani..

Discussion in 'The Vault' started by mark1975, Oct 21, 2009.

  1. grjt

    grjt Active Member

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    [quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36589.msg972295#msg972295 date=1256630334]
    I think you lot are been fuckers for no reason I said what my general point was; you don't need a hulking physique to be a holding midfielder. you don't agree with this, fine, then fucking say why I'm wrong instead of attacking the poor examples I've used. FUCKS SAKES!!!
    [/quote]

    Hahahaha!

    Translation: "even I accept that I have ended up in a cuntsoup of an argument....please simply accept the statement that a footballer having a body is quite important"
     
  2. spider-neil

    spider-neil Well-Known Member

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    bullshit I picked out the examples of petit and vieira who to me look slender there are a fucking shit load of examples I could of used so instead of sticking to the fucking issue of the original point people went after the bad examples used (2 out of the 5 examples I posted). Thread well and truly fucked up rather than having an interesting debate. Bravo!
     
  3. Oncy

    Oncy Guest

    [quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36589.msg972310#msg972310 date=1256632860]
    bullshit I picked out the examples of petit and vieira who to me look slender there are a fucking shit load of examples I could of used so instead of sticking to the fucking issue of the original point people went after the bad examples used (2 out of the 5 examples I posted). Thread well and truly fucked up rather than having an interesting debate. Bravo!
    [/quote]Neil. If its you vs EVERYONE, its probably not them.
     
  4. grjt

    grjt Active Member

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    [quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36589.msg972313#msg972313 date=1256633044]
    [quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36589.msg972310#msg972310 date=1256632860]
    bullshit I picked out the examples of petit and vieira who to me look slender there are a fucking shit load of examples I could of used so instead of sticking to the fucking issue of the original point people went after the bad examples used (2 out of the 5 examples I posted). Thread well and truly fucked up rather than having an interesting debate. Bravo!
    [/quote]Neil. If its you vs EVERYONE, its probably not them.
    [/quote]

    And when he says EVERYONE Neil, he most definitely means EVERYONE.
     
  5. spider-neil

    spider-neil Well-Known Member

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    :D[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36589.msg972313#msg972313 date=1256633044]
    [quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36589.msg972310#msg972310 date=1256632860]
    bullshit I picked out the examples of petit and vieira who to me look slender there are a fucking shit load of examples I could of used so instead of sticking to the fucking issue of the original point people went after the bad examples used (2 out of the 5 examples I posted). Thread well and truly fucked up rather than having an interesting debate. Bravo!
    [/quote]Neil. If its you vs EVERYONE, its probably not them.
    [/quote]
    I just want people to stick to the original issue and say why I'm wrong if they think I'm wrong instead of going after petit and vieira, bad examples to which I've already have admitted were wrong. Much more fun to ridicule than debate
     
  6. manwithnoname

    manwithnoname Bravo old man. Bravo. Banned

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    Oh, now I'm all ashamed
     
  7. Oncy

    Oncy Guest

    [quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36589.msg972315#msg972315 date=1256633361]
    [quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36589.msg972313#msg972313 date=1256633044]
    [quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36589.msg972310#msg972310 date=1256632860]
    bullshit I picked out the examples of petit and vieira who to me look slender there are a fucking shit load of examples I could of used so instead of sticking to the fucking issue of the original point people went after the bad examples used (2 out of the 5 examples I posted). Thread well and truly fucked up rather than having an interesting debate. Bravo!
    [/quote]Neil. If its you vs EVERYONE, its probably not them.
    [/quote]
    I just people to stick to the original issue and say why I'm wrong if they think I'm wrong instead of going after petit and vieira, bad examples to which I've already have admitted were wrong. Much more fun to ridicule than debate


    [/quote]Dude! You started by saying Aquilani ISNT a holding midfielder and then argue that people shouldnt worry about him because theres been plenty of other small-ish holding midfielders (which of course he isnt) then you ignore obvious choice of Mascherano and skip through to the giant Vieira and the equally brutish Petit who ironically is or isnt aptly named. You may as well have said dont worry about Aquilani because Schmeical was a midget and he did ok.
    Youre being ridiculed because youre being ridiculous.
    Chalk it up and move on kid.
     
  8. spider-neil

    spider-neil Well-Known Member

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    'you don't need a hulking physique to be an effective holding midfielder'

    Is this statement wrong?

    Stop fucking going on about the examples of vieira and petit, they were bad examples but they aren't the only two holding midfielders ever to play the fucking game of football.
     
  9. Oncy

    Oncy Guest

    Jesus Mary and Joseph.
     
  10. grjt

    grjt Active Member

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    [quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36589.msg972315#msg972315 date=1256633361]
    :D[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36589.msg972313#msg972313 date=1256633044]
    [quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36589.msg972310#msg972310 date=1256632860]
    bullshit I picked out the examples of petit and vieira who to me look slender there are a fucking shit load of examples I could of used so instead of sticking to the fucking issue of the original point people went after the bad examples used (2 out of the 5 examples I posted). Thread well and truly fucked up rather than having an interesting debate. Bravo!
    [/quote]Neil. If its you vs EVERYONE, its probably not them.
    [/quote]
    I just want people to stick to the original issue and say why I'm wrong if they think I'm wrong instead of going after petit and vieira, bad examples to which I've already have admitted were wrong. Much more fun to ridicule than debate


    [/quote]


    Chill Neil, chill.

    I think your comment re Aqua being okay as he is an attacking mf rather than a DM probably overlooks the fact that defensive midfielders do come in a variety of shapes and sizes. Admittedly the Roy Keanes and Lee Carsleys of this world spring to mind, but you get the Maschers, Vieiras and Toure's and Gattusos - and i cant really see a huge amount of consistency in their physicality.

    However, I think youre right in that whatever the cause of Aquilanis injury issues, it is less likely that he will get bashed quite as often playing a little further up the pitch
     
  11. keniget

    keniget Part of the Furniture Member

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    [quote author=grjt link=topic=36589.msg972321#msg972321 date=1256633883]
    However, I think youre right in that whatever the cause of Aquilanis injury issues, it is less likely that he will get bashed quite as often playing a little further up the pitch
    [/quote]

    Who got 'bashed' more on Sunday... Masher or Torres?

    I was under the assumption that a DM is the one doing the bashing on the opposition's attacking players.
     
  12. mark1975

    mark1975 Moderator Moderator

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    [quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36589.msg972081#msg972081 date=1256585991]
    [quote author=Brendan link=topic=36589.msg972080#msg972080 date=1256585734]
    Petit? Apt? Built? What?

    I know english isn't your strong point, and I do like the spidey, but sometimes what you post is a bit, well, QUACKQUACKQUACKQUACK
    [/quote]

    so petit had a big build? seriously? I thought petit had a athletic build rather than muscular?

    petit
    [​IMG]
    not slender but not exactly muscular is is he?

    [/quote]

    Petit and Vieira were both big lads and they worked well together, though granted, Petit could be a bit of a shithouse at times. But your point isn't really that correct. Generally in the Premiership, whether you play the holding role or the more attacking of the two, if you're any way 'slight', you're generally going to fail. Even the likes of Lampard and Scholes are in no shape or form 'lightweight', they know how to put themselves about.

    Of course, the attacking player is often going to be less physical than his defensive partner, that's just the nature of the type of player isn't it? But it's marginal stuff and generally in this league you have to be made of stern stuff to play either role.
     
  13. dossena

    dossena SCM Follower Member

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    Would you be concerned if Aquilani, so slender that he is, is being played by Rafa at holding mid?
     
  14. spider-neil

    spider-neil Well-Known Member

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    [quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36589.msg972318#msg972318 date=1256633713]
    [quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36589.msg972315#msg972315 date=1256633361]
    [quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36589.msg972313#msg972313 date=1256633044]
    [quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36589.msg972310#msg972310 date=1256632860]
    bullshit I picked out the examples of petit and vieira who to me look slender there are a fucking shit load of examples I could of used so instead of sticking to the fucking issue of the original point people went after the bad examples used (2 out of the 5 examples I posted). Thread well and truly fucked up rather than having an interesting debate. Bravo!
    [/quote]Neil. If its you vs EVERYONE, its probably not them.
    [/quote]
    I just people to stick to the original issue and say why I'm wrong if they think I'm wrong instead of going after petit and vieira, bad examples to which I've already have admitted were wrong. Much more fun to ridicule than debate


    [/quote]Dude! You started by saying Aquilani ISNT a holding midfielder and then argue that people shouldnt worry about him because theres been plenty of other small-ish holding midfielders (which of course he isnt) then you ignore obvious choice of Mascherano and skip through to the giant Vieira and the equally brutish Petit who ironically is or isnt aptly named. You may as well have said dont worry about Aquilani because Schmeical was a midget and he did ok.
    Youre being ridiculed because youre being ridiculous.
    Chalk it up and move on kid.
    [/quote]

    First of all I said aqualini was and attacking midfielder, the subject of physique came up, I said you don't need a big physique to be an effective holding midfielder. I then listed some holding midfielders who to 'me' don't look muscular of which two were poor examples (though they still don't look big to me) people then proceeded to focus on the bad examples an completely ignore the original point I was trying to make even though I admitted my error of some of the examples used. Each to their own but if someone else did the same I personally would have stuck to the issue I perfer debate but that just me.
    If someone said 'tall keepers are more effective than short keepers' picked out 5 examples two of which were tiny I would of course have said 'hey, of those guys are short' but I still debate the original point whichout focusing on the two bad examples.
     
  15. grjt

    grjt Active Member

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    [quote author=keniget link=topic=36589.msg972322#msg972322 date=1256634007]
    [quote author=grjt link=topic=36589.msg972321#msg972321 date=1256633883]
    However, I think youre right in that whatever the cause of Aquilanis injury issues, it is less likely that he will get bashed quite as often playing a little further up the pitch
    [/quote]

    Who got 'bashed' more on Sunday... Masher or Torres?

    I was under the assumption that a DM is the one doing the bashing on the opposition's attacking players.
    [/quote]

    Okay, bashed was a bit of a catch all term.

    DMs will be making more man to man contact, including hustling and jockeying, and making tackles at full stretch. This tends to be where the knee, ankle and groin niggles kick in if youre suceptible to them. Add to that the emphasis on competing in 50-50 situations, and youre far more likely to pick up injuries than an AM/ striker who can often go down at far less contact, and is permitted to compete less in the tackle.

    Easy.
     
  16. madmax

    madmax Active Member

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    [quote author=keniget link=topic=36589.msg972322#msg972322 date=1256634007]
    [quote author=grjt link=topic=36589.msg972321#msg972321 date=1256633883]
    However, I think youre right in that whatever the cause of Aquilanis injury issues, it is less likely that he will get bashed quite as often playing a little further up the pitch
    [/quote]

    Who got 'bashed' more on Sunday... Masher or Torres?

    I was under the assumption that a DM is the one doing the bashing on the opposition's attacking players.
    [/quote]

    an Am plays between the defense and midfield, and there have been a whole lot of tiny number 10s.....so its reasonable to conclude that they get bashed up a little less.

    Neil's point is that as Aqui is not going to play DM, he won't be bashed up as much.

    Neil you agree to above?

    Lets stop this bitching...
     
  17. doctor_mac

    doctor_mac My cowboy name is Garland Justice Moderator

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    [quote author=dossena link=topic=36589.msg972325#msg972325 date=1256634547]
    Would you be concerned if Aquilani, so slender that he is, is being played by Rafa at holding mid?
    [/quote]

    I'll handle this if I may.

    If you think about it, Aquaman is a veritable monster in comparison with the aptly named and utterly puny Emmanuel Petit, so I'm sure he could cope just fine.
     
  18. Stulikesdrums

    Stulikesdrums Well-Known Member

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  19. spider-neil

    spider-neil Well-Known Member

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    [quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36589.msg972323#msg972323 date=1256634257]
    [quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36589.msg972081#msg972081 date=1256585991]
    [quote author=Brendan link=topic=36589.msg972080#msg972080 date=1256585734]
    Petit? Apt? Built? What?

    I know english isn't your strong point, and I do like the spidey, but sometimes what you post is a bit, well, QUACKQUACKQUACKQUACK
    [/quote]

    so petit had a big build? seriously? I thought petit had a athletic build rather than muscular?

    petit
    [​IMG]
    not slender but not exactly muscular is is he?

    [/quote]

    Petit and Vieira were both big lads and they worked well together, though granted, Petit could be a bit of a shithouse at times. But your point isn't really that correct. Generally in the Premiership, whether you play the holding role or the more attacking of the two, if you're any way 'slight', you're generally going to fail. Even the likes of Lampard and Scholes are in no shape or form 'lightweight', they know how to put themselves about.

    Of course, the attacking player is often going to be less physical than his defensive partner, that's just the nature of the type of player isn't it? But it's marginal stuff and generally in this league you have to be made of stern stuff to play either role.
    [/quote]

    Didi was one of the most effective holding midfielders to play the game and he had a slender build (no debate about didi's build surely?) the holding role is about positioning, Reading the game knowing when to shield the defense and when to join the attack. Obviously being built like essien would help but it wouldn't be a game changer if you were slim but had ability. IMHO
     
  20. mark1975

    mark1975 Moderator Moderator

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    [quote author=madmax link=topic=36589.msg972330#msg972330 date=1256634701]
    [quote author=keniget link=topic=36589.msg972322#msg972322 date=1256634007]
    [quote author=grjt link=topic=36589.msg972321#msg972321 date=1256633883]
    However, I think youre right in that whatever the cause of Aquilanis injury issues, it is less likely that he will get bashed quite as often playing a little further up the pitch
    [/quote]

    Who got 'bashed' more on Sunday... Masher or Torres?

    I was under the assumption that a DM is the one doing the bashing on the opposition's attacking players.
    [/quote]

    an Am plays between the defense and midfield, and there have been a whole lot of tiny number 10s.....so its reasonable to conclude that they get bashed up a little less.

    Neil's point is that as Aqui is not going to play DM, he won't be bashed up as much.

    Neil you agree to above?

    Lets stop this bitching...
    [/quote]

    Well that's like saying Lucas doesn't get bashed as much as Masher. The demand on our midfield two, in terms of workrate/teamwork, is practically the same. Both have to do their fair share of the defensive duties, while one sits and protects more and the other is given a bit more license to attack (not much it seems).

    How many times have teams forced errors by targetting Lucas? His defensive frailties have been highlighted on many occasions this season, so suggesting that one is less likely to be 'bashed' is wrong.

    In even more simplistic terms, the more attacking of the two is likely to come up more against the opposition defensive players, whereas Masher is more likely to be comfronted by attacking players (who are, by virtue of recent points on this thread, more 'lightweight), so none of this point about one being able to be significantly more lightweight than the other, really holds any water.
     

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