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Youth setup in trouble?

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[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=38731.msg1047454#msg1047454 date=1265020002]
[quote author=refugee link=topic=38731.msg1047452#msg1047452 date=1265019919]
[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=38731.msg1047435#msg1047435 date=1265019011]
he should be one here shouldn't he?

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/academy
[/quote]

He was in the reserves and is listed here
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/first-team
[/quote]

phew! I was worried there. I thought he was still at the academy rather than melwood
[/quote]

I think you should still be worried, he's a goner sadly.
 
[quote author=refugee link=topic=38731.msg1047456#msg1047456 date=1265020148]
[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=38731.msg1047454#msg1047454 date=1265020002]
[quote author=refugee link=topic=38731.msg1047452#msg1047452 date=1265019919]
[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=38731.msg1047435#msg1047435 date=1265019011]
he should be one here shouldn't he?

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/academy
[/quote]

He was in the reserves and is listed here
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/first-team
[/quote]

phew! I was worried there. I thought he was still at the academy rather than melwood
[/quote]

I think you should still be worried, he's a goner sadly.
[/quote]
🙁

I'LL WAIT FOR THE CLUB TO TELL ME!!!!!!
SCREW YOU GUYS!!!

*storms off whilst fighting back the tears*
 
I don't believe this one bit.

Perhaps if the prize was touted to be in the region of £1M. I'd still doubt it though.

One of 10 players touted to be future stars by UEFA less than a year back should be on the move out of Liverpool for a mere £100k?

No way.
 
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38731.msg1047519#msg1047519 date=1265026661]
I don't believe this one bit.

Perhaps if the prize was touted to be in the region of £1M. I'd still doubt it though.

One of 10 players touted to be future stars by UEFA less than a year back should be on the move out of Liverpool for a mere £100k?

No way.
[/quote]

Way
 
How long does he have on a contract? Might have something to do with why he is going so cheaply. There has to be a reason why he can go so cheap. For all his faults benitez normally doesn't get shafted when selling players.
 
Can anyone tell me what the point of the youth set up is?
Any half promising ones go out on loan and are never heard of again, any real promising ones sit on the bench all afternoon waiting for a chance. and any that Rafa thinks really are ready and get a game aren't.

regards
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38731.msg1047575#msg1047575 date=1265031859]
Can anyone tell me what the point of the youth set up is?
Any half promising ones go out on loan and are never heard of again, any real promising ones sit on the bench all afternoon waiting for a chance. and any that Rafa thinks really are ready and get a game aren't.

regards
[/quote]
Insua, Kelly, Pacheco, Saric, Amoo, Darby, Palsson, Dalle-Valle, Kancaliklic, Mavinga, Ayala, Irwin, Spearing, Ince, Eccleston (I know he's gone on loan but he could actually still make it).

Lot of good reasons right there mate.

Oh and as we're often making a profit on the decent ones who eventually doesn't make it, it makes perfect sense.

One day we'll strike lucky again and everyone will be praising the setup.
 
I think you have missed the point.
Unless these players get the chance and cope in the first team it is pointless.
Plus the cost of running the academy etc will not nearly be covered by a few sales
regards
 
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38731.msg1047601#msg1047601 date=1265034310]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38731.msg1047575#msg1047575 date=1265031859]
Can anyone tell me what the point of the youth set up is?
Any half promising ones go out on loan and are never heard of again, any real promising ones sit on the bench all afternoon waiting for a chance. and any that Rafa thinks really are ready and get a game aren't.

regards
[/quote]
Insua, Kelly, Pacheco, Saric, Amoo, Darby, Palsson, Dalle-Valle, Kancaliklic, Mavinga, Ayala, Irwin, Spearing, Ince, Eccleston (I know he's gone on loan but he could actually still make it).

Lot of good reasons right there mate.

Oh and as we're often making a profit on the decent ones who eventually doesn't make it, it makes perfect sense.

One day we'll strike lucky again and everyone will be praising the setup.
[/quote]

I think the point Vlad is making is that they never get a proper chance at Liverpool. So we'll never strike lucky as they never get the chance to prove themselves. It's ridiculous it's as if youth players will never become decent players in Rafas mind.
 
[quote author=Stu link=topic=38731.msg1047608#msg1047608 date=1265034695]
That's it Vlad. It's all about producing first team players. That's the bottom line.
[/quote]

I totally agree with you Stu that the purpose of the youth set up should be to develope players for the first team.
However there seems to be an attitude that if we can turn a few bob from bringing on youth players a bit and selling them on, well that makes the academy a success.
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38731.msg1047607#msg1047607 date=1265034672]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38731.msg1047601#msg1047601 date=1265034310]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38731.msg1047575#msg1047575 date=1265031859]
Can anyone tell me what the point of the youth set up is?
Any half promising ones go out on loan and are never heard of again, any real promising ones sit on the bench all afternoon waiting for a chance. and any that Rafa thinks really are ready and get a game aren't.

regards
[/quote]
Insua, Kelly, Pacheco, Saric, Amoo, Darby, Palsson, Dalle-Valle, Kancaliklic, Mavinga, Ayala, Irwin, Spearing, Ince, Eccleston (I know he's gone on loan but he could actually still make it).

Lot of good reasons right there mate.

Oh and as we're often making a profit on the decent ones who eventually doesn't make it, it makes perfect sense.

One day we'll strike lucky again and everyone will be praising the setup.
[/quote]

I think the point Vlad is making is that they never get a proper chance at Liverpool. So we'll never strike lucky as they never get the chance to prove themselves. It's ridiculous it's as if youth players will never become decent players in Rafas mind.
[/quote]
I can't think of one Reserve-player over the past years who's actually been amazingly overlooked by Rafa? Has anyone so far been good enough albeit not given the go?

Insua on the other hand - and Kelly by the looks of it - both have a very good chance of actually making the grade.

Pacheco could turn into a star. But he's only 18-years-old so there's no need to throw him in at the deep end especially not in a season where almost everything so far has gone wrong. He'll get his day. So will at least a handful of the current crop too, is my guess. Maybe as good squadies most of them but there are more than a few who'll get involved.
 
[quote author=the count link=topic=38731.msg1047611#msg1047611 date=1265035043]
[quote author=Stu link=topic=38731.msg1047608#msg1047608 date=1265034695]
That's it Vlad. It's all about producing first team players. That's the bottom line.
[/quote]

I totally agree with you Stu that the purpose of the youth set up should be to develope players for the first team.
However there seems to be an attitude that if we can turn a few bob from bringing on youth players a bit and selling them on, well that makes the academy a success.
[/quote]
In a perfect world that's the way you fund such a costly setup.

The jury is still out on the likes of Spearing, Degen, El Zhar & Plessis (there's probably a verdict out on the last two already) but I'm sure they'll all demand a fee if/when moved on.

Insua, Kelly and Pacheco all seems to make the grade however with a few more waiting in the shades too. If we were to buy a player of Pachecos promise at this point he'd be Lucas-expensive at a bare minimum.
 
We've seen a lot more of the youngsters play in meaningful games this season (not CC games). For example the likes of Insua, N'Gog, Darby, Spearing, Ayala, Pacheco and Kelly have all played in CL or Prem matches.

Obviously we still need to get more out of our youth setup, but we have seen an improvement.
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38731.msg1047623#msg1047623 date=1265035812]
We've seen a lot more of the youngsters play in meaningful games this season (not CC games). For example the likes of Insua, N'Gog, Darby, Spearing, Ayala, Pacheco and Kelly have all played in CL or Prem matches.

Obviously we still need to get more out of our youth setup, but we have seen an improvement.
[/quote]

N'gog went straight into the first team squad, as far as I am aware he has never been part of the academy.

Ayala I thought did very well and could have had some more games. I hardly think the other cameo's , were significant. The one that I do think is significant is Rafa's seeming refusal to give Pacheco more than the two little cameos he has had, the lad looks quality.

Insua? Well I quite like the lad, he was the one who looked like he could do it, he has been a bit of a disappointment so far this season, but next season will be a more apt time to decide.
Having said all that does all this justify all the money spent on the academy?
Unless Rafa sticks his neck out a bit more with the kids it doesn't.

regards
 
Does anyone know the exact figures for the running costs of the Academy?

Signing-on fees, Player wages, Ground maintenance, Travels, Equipment, Coaches, Staffs etc? Does the Annual reports reveal the Academys running-costs?

In the region of £4m in fixed costs perhaps?

Obviuously I'm just guessing wildly. Would be interesting to know however.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38731.msg1047629#msg1047629 date=1265036479]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38731.msg1047623#msg1047623 date=1265035812]
We've seen a lot more of the youngsters play in meaningful games this season (not CC games). For example the likes of Insua, N'Gog, Darby, Spearing, Ayala, Pacheco and Kelly have all played in CL or Prem matches.

Obviously we still need to get more out of our youth setup, but we have seen an improvement.
[/quote]

N'gog went straight into the first team squad, as far as I am aware he has never been part of the academy.

Ayala I thought did very well and could have had some more games. I hardly think the other cameo's , were significant. The one that I do think is significant is Rafa's seeming refusal to give Pacheco more than the two little cameos he has had, the lad looks quality.

Insua? Well I quite like the lad, he was the one who looked like he could do it, he has been a bit of a disappointment so far this season, but next season will be a more apt time to decide.
Having said all that does all this justify all the money spent on the academy?
Unless Rafa sticks his neck out a bit more with the kids it doesn't.

regards


[/quote]

You didn't like the look of Kelly Vlad?

I couldn't agree with you more about Pacheco, but he does seem to moving closer and closer to the first team. Maybe now that he's baulked up a bit more this season, he's nearly ready for the step up?

IMO the spend on the youth setup will be fully justified if 1 or 2 first team players are produced every 3-4 years. With the people running it now and the current bunch of players coming through, i'm pretty confident that that will happen.
 
Pacheco's a curious situation this year.

Insua has struggled this season in a side collectively struggling in a defensive sense and yet he's played nearly every game. Meanwhile, Pacheco (the standout reserve player) has looked very promising in his cameos without gaining further minutes, even though Gerrard, Torres, Riera, Aquilani and Benayoun have been out for significant spells this season and we've been crying out for a creative spark. If he can't get even substitute minutes when these players have been out (often at the same time) and Kuyt has struggled for form, what chance has he when Gerrard et al are fit and firing? Seeing N'gog and Babel come on with 10 mins to play whilst a previously labouring Kuyt was moved inside must have been pretty frustrating for him.

I'd really like to see him get regular sub appearances this season at the very least.
 
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38731.msg1047616#msg1047616 date=1265035205]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38731.msg1047607#msg1047607 date=1265034672]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38731.msg1047601#msg1047601 date=1265034310]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38731.msg1047575#msg1047575 date=1265031859]
Can anyone tell me what the point of the youth set up is?
Any half promising ones go out on loan and are never heard of again, any real promising ones sit on the bench all afternoon waiting for a chance. and any that Rafa thinks really are ready and get a game aren't.

regards
[/quote]
Insua, Kelly, Pacheco, Saric, Amoo, Darby, Palsson, Dalle-Valle, Kancaliklic, Mavinga, Ayala, Irwin, Spearing, Ince, Eccleston (I know he's gone on loan but he could actually still make it).

Lot of good reasons right there mate.

Oh and as we're often making a profit on the decent ones who eventually doesn't make it, it makes perfect sense.

One day we'll strike lucky again and everyone will be praising the setup.
[/quote]

I think the point Vlad is making is that they never get a proper chance at Liverpool. So we'll never strike lucky as they never get the chance to prove themselves. It's ridiculous it's as if youth players will never become decent players in Rafas mind.
[/quote]
I can't think of one Reserve-player over the past years who's actually been amazingly overlooked by Rafa? Has anyone so far been good enough albeit not given the go?

Insua on the other hand - and Kelly by the looks of it - both have a very good chance of actually making the grade.

Pacheco could turn into a star. But he's only 18-years-old so there's no need to throw him in at the deep end especially not in a season where almost everything so far has gone wrong. He'll get his day. So will at least a handful of the current crop too, is my guess. Maybe as good squadies most of them but there are more than a few who'll get involved.
[/quote]
Which is the point, the academy can't be justified if they aren't producing the goods or if they are the manager over-looks them

regards
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38731.msg1047640#msg1047640 date=1265038553]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=38731.msg1047629#msg1047629 date=1265036479]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38731.msg1047623#msg1047623 date=1265035812]
We've seen a lot more of the youngsters play in meaningful games this season (not CC games). For example the likes of Insua, N'Gog, Darby, Spearing, Ayala, Pacheco and Kelly have all played in CL or Prem matches.

Obviously we still need to get more out of our youth setup, but we have seen an improvement.
[/quote]

N'gog went straight into the first team squad, as far as I am aware he has never been part of the academy.

Ayala I thought did very well and could have had some more games. I hardly think the other cameo's , were significant. The one that I do think is significant is Rafa's seeming refusal to give Pacheco more than the two little cameos he has had, the lad looks quality.

Insua? Well I quite like the lad, he was the one who looked like he could do it, he has been a bit of a disappointment so far this season, but next season will be a more apt time to decide.
Having said all that does all this justify all the money spent on the academy?
Unless Rafa sticks his neck out a bit more with the kids it doesn't.

regards


[/quote]

You didn't like the look of Kelly Vlad?

I couldn't agree with you more about Pacheco, but he does seem to moving closer and closer to the first team. Maybe now that he's baulked up a bit more this season, he's nearly ready for the step up?

IMO the spend on the youth setup will be fully justified if 1 or 2 first team players are produced every 3-4 years. With the people running it now and the current bunch of players coming through, i'm pretty confident that that will happen.



[/quote]

I like the look of a load of them and would like to see some serious blooding of them, regardless of how young they are

regards
 
DERBY County took a look at Liverpool youngster Adam Pepper in last night's reserve game against West Bromwich Albion.

The 18-year-old forward or attacking midfielder played 75 minutes and scored in the Rams' 3-2 defeat at the Hawthorns.

Pepper was highly-rated as a schoolboy and is a third-year trainee at Anfield but he will be released this summer.

"We went to watch the exit trials and Adam did quite well, so there is nothing to lose in taking a look at him," said Rams manager Nigel Clough.

"He plays just off the striker, similar to Tomasz Cywka.

"He has not quite made it at Liverpool but that's not to say he won't make it somewhere else."

Pepper was a key figure in the Liverpool side that reached the FA Youth Cup final last season but missed the final with an injury.
Click to expand...
 
I always thought young Adam was going to make it here. After enduring such a shite season, talk of this player leaving is just adding more salt to the wounds.
 
[quote author=Wilko7 link=topic=38731.msg1087297#msg1087297 date=1271154383]
I always thought young Adam was going to make it here. After enduring such a shite season, talk of this player leaving is just adding more salt to the wounds.
[/quote]What are your thoughts on Rafa Wilko? Do you think he should go?
 
Picking up a player for nothing who only last year was part Liverpool's successful youth team is nothing to sneeze at for the likes of Derby.
 
I don't know, Oncy. Part of me feels like the club, players and perhaps Rafa himself need a change yet I also have a feeling that, providing he can bring in some first choices in the summer, he could weLl turn it around next season and we could all be glad that we avoided the upheaval of a new manager.

Turning it around would of course involve picking balanced sides, subbing earlier, more one touch passing at a higher tempo and gambling to get the win.

It's a big ask.
 
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