Winning Mentality

[BADGER10]

Winning mentality

We didn’t have it today. At least 3 of our 5 midfielders ‘knew’ they weren’t ready for a game at Old Trafford today.

Gerrard and Wee Jay aside, 3/5 midfielders went in expecting defeat and got it.

There was a move in the first half on the edge of their box where Henderson could maybe have taken it on and got a shot in, but he bottled it, to lay it off short and ‘get rid of it’ so the ball wasn’t his responsibility anymore. The move broke down.

Many times, our midfielders look up and pass to Gerrard just cos its Gerrard. Not cos hes in a good position... but just cos its Gerrard. And he may do it all for them.

For Scholes first half header, that stemmed from Downing refusing to take the ball himself and just fucking run like a winger. The 18 million pound left winger refused to drive out of defence with the ball, lost it, and we were then left vulnerable. Just fucking run with it Stu! By all means, fuck up 3 out of 5 times… but just be direct… and fucking run with it… we'll appreciate the 2 in 5 times! WE WILL!

Today was lost before we got there. From too many players who believe and know they are playing in a team that is above their natural ability. ‘Making it’ for them means playing for Liverpool Football Club. Not winning championships and trophies with them. Top 4 will do. And now just challenging for the top 4 will.

Henderson isn’t ready for these games yet. We’ll see if he is in the future. But not yet. Theres enough glimpses to keep him around. But we need success now. The £14m price tag has demanded that pressure. For £14 million we want success now.

Downing isn’t the answer. He ever will be. He’s not mentally strong enough for these games. He knows he’s out of his depth. In his own head he knows he is average. He fucking looks average!!! AGAIN… His transfer fee doesn’t help. It adds pressure. He's an 8-10m player that we paid £18m for… but still… show us something Stu FFS. £18 FUCKING MILLION!!! Give us a little glimpse!!!

Anyway… my point is… we haven’t bought ‘winners’. People who will do ANYTHING to win. We’ve bought nice guys. Nice guys do not win games…. Or get us 4th even. We need hungry cunts who will do anything to win. Go above and beyond. We’ve signed a bunch of lads who make their Grandma proud, and that won’t get us 3pts on a Saturday afternoon!

We need winners. People who BELIEVE they are there to win things. Our squad doesn’t have that. That’s what we need. That’s the difference between us and the top 4. We have too many Mummys boys who think they have made it by getting signed for Liverpool Football Club. The club who won everything when they were boys! They think they've made it... and they havent!

We have a mental problem at this club... as if we are just 'supposed' to win things because of our history. And thats not right. We need to start signing players with the right mentality to take us forward. As contriversial as they are our best signings in the last 12 months have been Bellamy and Suarez. Forget whether you thin Luis was right or wrong in the Evra situation, he wants to win. And will do anything to get there. If we get a team with that hunger, rather than just a few... we may just get back to challenging for the title. Bellamy too. He doesnt get a fuck. He leaves it all out there. They are born winners. Their mentality bridges the gap in between how good they are and how good they could become. And a squad with their mentality will definatley get in the top 4 for sure... and maybe even put us back where we belong.

Sorry for the rant. I hate losing to the fucking mancs

 

[Modo]

Gerrard wasnt arsed either in the 2nd.

 

[BADGER10]

It was basically Gerrard vs The Mancs. He couldnt win it on his own!

 

[Home and A Gay]

[quote author=BADGER10 link=topic=48645.msg1481182#msg1481182 date=1328977080]
It was basically Gerrard vs The Mancs. He couldnt win it on his own!
[/quote]
Really?
He wasn't tracking back his passing was shite and for the first time since the Woy days he looked like he didn't care.
He looks really unfit too.

 

[BADGER10]

[quote author=Leon link=topic=48645.msg1481184#msg1481184 date=1328977194]
[quote author=BADGER10 link=topic=48645.msg1481182#msg1481182 date=1328977080]
It was basically Gerrard vs The Mancs. He couldnt win it on his own!
[/quote]
Really?
He wasn't tracking back his passing was shite and for the first time since the Roy days he looked like he didn't care.
He looks really unfit too.
[/quote]

He was asked to play off Luis. Be the one that gambled cos of his recent scoring record against the mancs. His primary job was not to track back

 

[mark1975]

Gerrard was poor today, anyone who thinks otherwise is proper blinkered. The whole midfield was.

 

[the count]

[quote author=BADGER10 link=topic=48645.msg1481188#msg1481188 date=1328977484]
[quote author=Leon link=topic=48645.msg1481184#msg1481184 date=1328977194]
[quote author=BADGER10 link=topic=48645.msg1481182#msg1481182 date=1328977080]
It was basically Gerrard vs The Mancs. He couldnt win it on his own!
[/quote]
Really?
He wasn't tracking back his passing was shite and for the first time since the Roy days he looked like he didn't care.
He looks really unfit too.
[/quote]

He was asked to play off Luis. Be the one that gambled cos of his recent scoring record against the mancs. His primary job was not to track back
[/quote]Even if doing it wasn't his primary job it doesn't meant that he is completely excused from doing it at all

 

[BADGER10]

I've not said he was good. I'm not praising Gerrard for today. Previously, Gerrard has played and been the central figure in victories against Man United. Today he was surrouned by midfielders who knew their fate before even getting out there. So I'm not praising Stevie for todays performance... but his mentality of that is one of a winner. Something lacking in many of those along side him.

 

[moron]

Henderson, like Carroll - I don't understand why we bought them and for those prices.

Downing is a good player - I know most of you don't rate him but he was good at the start of the season and has had good performances. In my view today was his worse performance - he did not seem he wanted to play or was ready for this game for whatever reason. In actual fact I don't think we can call him a bad player becuase in the last international he played - he was the most prominent player in bringing the ball forward. So I don't think its money totally wasted.

I actually thought SG had a poor game today and was somewhat frustrated by the ManU midfield. I don't think we lacked a winning mentatilty - I thought the first half was quite even, we just f*cked it up at the start of the second halfl. What Kenny needs to instill in the young players is that - if you concede in te first 3 minutes of the second half - there is no need to suddenly lose your head and all attack, leaving the back empty - because you still have 42 minutes to play football and get a goal back !!! I am glad Suarez scored the goal for us though - thought that was good and made Patrice look like a twat in the first minute of the game when he decided to attack Suarez and got his team mate Ferdinand instead !!!!

As for the handshake stuff guys - here's how I see it:

a) Suarez used a term that he thought was not racist, and he did not say it in a nasty way either.
b) Evra takes it seriously not quite understanding thats an Ok term to use in Uruguay, a country that never restricted black players from playing in their national team in the South American continent.
c) Suarez does not hide that he said it - and contiues to think in his mind that its not racist.
d) Suarez gets banned 8 games and labelled a racist.

Now - point (d) is interesting - if you ask someone who is not racist and gets branded a racist how they feel - it can be really upsetting for them, and thats what Evra's actions have done. Today was too soon for him to shake hands with Evra and the FA are to blame for this fiasco, they decided handshake was not required for game against QPR and Chelsea and yet they thought today was the right time for handshakes between LFC and ManU.

Thats all.

MORON.

 

[Gary25]

[quote author=BADGER10 link=topic=48645.msg1481182#msg1481182 date=1328977080]
It was basically Gerrard vs The Mancs. He couldnt win it on his own!
[/quote]

Wise up, Gerrard was to blame as much as anyone in a Liverpool shirt today. Went missing and didn't bother trying 2nd half.

Not a Captain's performance and not the first time he's went missing at Old Trafford.

 

[BADGER10]

Maybe i worded my initial post incorrectly... it wasnt meant to praise Gerrard's peformance in any way. It was to point out that we have players playing for us that do not mentally believe they should be here. Players that know in their own head that they have reached their peak by playing for us rathern than winning for us.

Gerrard was relieved from critiscism becuase in many games before he had shown he is mentally capable of standing up and winning us games - on his own. Maybe I should have titled the thread 'match winners'. Or 'players who show up'.

The players we have signed dont have these qualities. Paricularly in midfield. They do not show these qualities at all. Not against Man United, not against Norwich at home, not against Swansea at home etc.

The winning mentality is not there with the players we have

 

[moron]

[quote author=BADGER10 link=topic=48645.msg1481247#msg1481247 date=1328980884]
Maybe i worded my initial post incorrectly... it wasnt meant to praise Gerrard's peformance in any way. It was to point out that we have players playing for us that do not mentally believe they should be here. Players that know in their own head that they have reached their peak by playing for us rathern than winning for us.

Gerrard was relieved from critiscism becuase in many games before he had shown he is mentally capable of standing up and winning us games - on his own. Maybe I should have titled the thread 'match winners'. Or 'players who show up'.

The players we have signed dont have these qualities. Paricularly in midfield. They do not show these qualities at all. Not against Man United, not against Norwich at home, not against Swansea at home etc.

The winning mentality is not there with the players we have
[/quote]

Your right - the midfield is to slow and one dimensional to support the front strikers - for most of the game the when we went forward there was hardly enough players in the box to cause them problems. I cannot see the point of Henderson in our team - he does nothing.

 

[Squiggles]

Gerrard didn't look that interested in linking up with Suarez. He wasn't busting a gut to get up the pitch and help get him involved.

All of them just plod around the park, bereft of ideas, creativity and any sort of cutting edge.

 

[monsieurdantes]

Hopefully winning the carling cup will give them more confidence and belief. If not, then I'd start injecting them with sugar and caffeine to make them more energetic on the pitch. Whereabouts on their anotomy the injection is delivered can depend upon their league position. With carbon nanotubes I'm sure you can even inject directly into the eye without causing too much damage.

 

[moron]

Just watched MOD - and the interview Kenny gave at the end regarding the game was pretty accurate - we played quite well for the first 30 minutes and then the later part of the second half, both teams looked rather lazy getting going but the few minutes in which they scored their two goals was when they showed the most urgency in the game and that was kind of it. There was not that much to seperate the teams, they just held onto the ball in our goal mouth area a little better and a little longer in their attacks.

 

[Ryan]

That's a pretty good initial post Badger. Agree with most of it.

 

[Delinquent]

I agree that we lacked a winning mentality, but I find it slightly bizarre that Gerrard escaped Badger's criticism. For me, he was the most disinterested player out there, and if anyone was taking their lead from him (as our captain), it's no surprise that the theme was recurrent throughout the team.

As for players like Henderson and Downing lacking bottle/ability, I think that's been pretty well documented. Just have a glimpse in the Henderson and Downing threads.

 

[spider-Neil]

you can't beat city and manu in a week and not have a winning mentality, what the team lacks are goal threats front to back and consistancy.
also it's worth saying that carroll has worked hard to get himself into something that resembles form and was dropped. why?

 

[mark1975]

Yeah, we were talking about this yesterday watching the game, they don't know when they're beaten, they just keep going and keep going. We had a touch of that a few seasons back when we finished second (and in the Cup Finals obv), but we've never been able to sustain it and I guess we won't until we win that illusive title again.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48645.msg1481503#msg1481503 date=1329038316]
you can't beat city and manu in a week and not have a winning mentality, what the team lacks are goal threats front to back and consistancy.
also it's worth saying that carroll has worked hard to get himself into something that resembles form and was dropped. why?
[/quote]

Yesterday was different though Neil, I agree that in many games it's basically been down to not having players who are good enough, but yesterday we just didn't look mentally ready for it, the lineup didn't help, there were too many passengers out there, Suarez was left on his own (and probably short of fitness) and Spearing got found out again as being short of the quality needed for that type of game. Bad day at the office maybe, but it just served to highlight that we need better players and Dalglish needs to stop fucking around with lineups. I'm actually really surprised and frustrated that he's falling into the same trap Rafa and Ged did in terms of being a bit of a tinkerman. Carroll didn't deserve to be dropped and Bellamy should have played. Coincidently, I think it was Neville who said yesterday, they couldn't believe Bellamy wasn't playing and it was a massive boost to United.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48645.msg1481526#msg1481526 date=1329041886]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48645.msg1481503#msg1481503 date=1329038316]
you can't beat city and manu in a week and not have a winning mentality, what the team lacks are goal threats front to back and consistancy.
also it's worth saying that carroll has worked hard to get himself into something that resembles form and was dropped. why?
[/quote]

Yesterday was different though Neil, I agree that in many games it's basically been down to not having players who are good enough, but yesterday we just didn't look mentally ready for it, the lineup didn't help, there were too many passengers out there, Suarez was left on his own (and probably short of fitness) and Spearing got found out again as being short of the quality needed for that type of game. Bad day at the office maybe, but it just served to highlight that we need better players and Dalglish needs to stop fucking around with lineups. I'm actually really surprised and frustrated that he's falling into the same trap Rafa and Ged did in terms of being a bit of a tinkerman. Carroll didn't deserve to be dropped and Bellamy should have played. Coincidently, I think it was Neville who said yesterday, they couldn't believe Bellamy wasn't playing and it was a massive boost to United.
[/quote]

it all comes down to looking at the oppersition and choosing players to counter them or at least picking players you think will exploit their weaknesses. now I know I say I would pick certain players for away games and that is true but if I were a manager one factor would trump all others and that is form. downing over bellamy, carroll dropped. gh did the exact same thing with heskey, we waiting an age for heskey to hit form and when finally he was he dropped him v ipswich.

hey, it's entirely possible carroll wouldn't have had a touch and we still would have lost but look at the home game where putting carroll on their shit keeper resulted in a goal. very very fucking tiresome. is carroll going to have to build up his confidence again because he was dropped for no good reason as far as I could see?

kenny has his reasons, let's leave it there.

 

[mark1975]

Form counts for everything, and on that note we left two of our most inform players on the bench while the likes of Downing were allowed to put in another predictably blunt performance. We exploited De Gae the other week by putting Carroll on him everytime we had a setpiece. It worked, so it's baffling why he started on the bench.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48645.msg1481534#msg1481534 date=1329042897]
Form counts for everything, and on that note we left two of our most inform players on the bench while the likes of Downing were allowed to put in another predictably blunt performance. We exploited De Gae the other week by putting Carroll on him everytime we had a setpiece. It worked, so it's baffling why he started on the bench.
[/quote]

totally annoying.

1. carroll is in probably his best form since joining the club

2. their keeper is an accident waiting to happen and putting carroll on his in the home game had the keeper all over the fucking place

3. with scholes playing it was likely we were going to go long periods without the ball so holding up the ball when we had it was vital.

yeah yeah, hidesight 20/20, but I was STUNNNED when I saw carroll on the bench. seriously kenny, wtf?!