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Will we finish in the top 4 next season?

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Why couldn't we.

There's not a chance we'll be this bad next season. Until november we were in the relegation zone..

Since then in terms of results we've been top 3 by form.

Utd,Chelsea,arsenal,city,spurs.

All five have proved that at present they couldn't run away with it in this league. Next season the top 12 will only become more competitive and bar one of the above teams in bringing in the Torres of 07, ronaldo of 06-08 et al nobody is going pull away from the pack.

If we add 3 quality first team footballers to this side we'll be competitive enough.
 
It will be a significant help that we have proper owners and a proper manager to start the season with. I dont see why we cant get 4th if we improve the squad over the summer, which we surely will.

The fact is, that shit as we are, losses to Blackpool x 2, West Ham and West Brom are what keep us out of 3rd place at the moment. I know thats simplifying it and those above us have lost silly point too, but I dont see why we cant make a realistic challenge for a minimum of 4th.
 
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=44833.msg1311056#msg1311056 date=1302079036]
It will be a significant help that we have proper owners and a proper manager to start the season with. I dont see why we cant get 4th if we improve the squad over the summer, which we surely will.

The fact is, that shit as we are, losses to Blackpool x 2, West Ham and West Brom are what keep us out of 3rd place at the moment. I know thats simplifying it and those above us have lost silly point too, but I dont see why we cant make a realistic challenge for a minimum of 4th.
[/quote]

Indeed. Those with a more 'realistic' outlook have formed that opinion because of the events of year's past and are reluctant to get their hopes up.

The fact that the team's form has improved, the Manager has injected a new optimism among players and fans; in addition to new owners breaking our transfer record fees both in and out has still left them unmoved.

I can understand the sentiment but the facts are startling in a short space of time. I think there is more reason to be optimistic than for many years and getting back into the top 4 is not overreaching in my opinion.
 
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=44833.msg1311009#msg1311009 date=1302073114]
Top four should be our realistic target next year with a decent cup run to boot.

Whether we turn a top four challenge into a title challenge or thereabouts is dependent on two main outcomes:

The first, more obviously, is the players we bring in over the summer. The owners are making all the right noises to suggest we'll be bringing in a couple of top players (25m or so) and a smattering of potential youngsters (sub 25) making the step up.

The second is our final placing this season. I'd much rather we finish 6th than 5th and miss out on the 20 odd games we'd have to play in the Europa league (and all the sunday/monday games) next season. It'd be a huge benefit to keeping our first eleven fit and relatively fresh all season if we don't have to traipse all around Europe and can concentrate on our top priority week in, week out. WE've dropped far too many points (we're not alone in this) following a midweek trip to Lithuania or somewhere. A season solely prioritising the Premiership will give us an edge over our rivals and we might just end up surprising a few people.

Given the two points above are correct, I'd expect us to have a realistic go at the title and finish top 3.
[/quote]

If we don't manage to get into Europe in some form then I fully expect our summer to be far less impressive. Giving up some 10 to 15m in revenue is hardly a good incentive for the new owners to shell out big transfer fees.
 
Ins and out come Summer are going to be more vital than ever. I'll hold my vote untill I know whether Sanchez, Hazard, Young, Eriksen or someone in that mould are beeing introduced.

Oh and a new good LB and CB.
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=44833.msg1311109#msg1311109 date=1302083328]
Ins and out come Summer are going to be more vital than ever. I'll hold my vote untill I know whether Sanchez, Hazard, Young, Eriksen or someone in that mould are beeing introduced.

Oh and a new good decent LB and CB.
[/quote]

There you go.
 
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=44833.msg1311009#msg1311009 date=1302073114]
Top four should be our realistic target next year with a decent cup run to boot.

Whether we turn a top four challenge into a title challenge or thereabouts is dependent on two main outcomes:

The first, more obviously, is the players we bring in over the summer. The owners are making all the right noises to suggest we'll be bringing in a couple of top players (25m or so) and a smattering of potential youngsters (sub 25) making the step up.

The second is our final placing this season. I'd much rather we finish 6th than 5th and miss out on the 20 odd games we'd have to play in the Europa league (and all the sunday/monday games) next season. It'd be a huge benefit to keeping our first eleven fit and relatively fresh all season if we don't have to traipse all around Europe and can concentrate on our top priority week in, week out. WE've dropped far too many points (we're not alone in this) following a midweek trip to Lithuania or somewhere. A season solely prioritising the Premiership will give us an edge over our rivals and we might just end up surprising a few people.

Given the two points above are correct, I'd expect us to have a realistic go at the title and finish top 3.
[/quote]

there is no benefit of not being in europe;

it's a selling point
it's income
it's another trophy
 
I think we can, but it will be at Arsenal's expense not City's, they will camp in top 4 now until they win the league
 
No, I do not think we will revamp the squad enough in the summer to become good enough to challenge for the top four.
 
A cautious "yes". I'm not convinced about Citeh, Tottenham or even the Arse long-term and, as others have said, our form under Kenny - some admittedly poor performances notwithstanding - would have seen us 2nd or 3rd right now if extended over the whole season.
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=44833.msg1311072#msg1311072 date=1302080878]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=44833.msg1311009#msg1311009 date=1302073114]
Top four should be our realistic target next year with a decent cup run to boot.

Whether we turn a top four challenge into a title challenge or thereabouts is dependent on two main outcomes:

The first, more obviously, is the players we bring in over the summer. The owners are making all the right noises to suggest we'll be bringing in a couple of top players (25m or so) and a smattering of potential youngsters (sub 25) making the step up.

The second is our final placing this season. I'd much rather we finish 6th than 5th and miss out on the 20 odd games we'd have to play in the Europa league (and all the sunday/monday games) next season. It'd be a huge benefit to keeping our first eleven fit and relatively fresh all season if we don't have to traipse all around Europe and can concentrate on our top priority week in, week out. WE've dropped far too many points (we're not alone in this) following a midweek trip to Lithuania or somewhere. A season solely prioritising the Premiership will give us an edge over our rivals and we might just end up surprising a few people.

Given the two points above are correct, I'd expect us to have a realistic go at the title and finish top 3.
[/quote]

If we don't manage to get into Europe in some form then I fully expect our summer to be far less impressive. Giving up some 10 to 15m in revenue is hardly a good incentive for the new owners to shell out big transfer fees.
[/quote]

Questionable. One could just as easily argue that (a) it demonstrates the need for some major pump-priming to get us back into Europe PDQ and (b), if that's right, it needs to be done before the new Fair Play regs.come into force.
 
I'm with Jules on this one, for 3 reasons firstly i think we will strengthen well in summer as for some reason the owners seem to be the real deal secondly we would have finished top 4 this season if we had started right under the right man whom we now have in place and thridly the truth is i have absolutely no confidence in the teams above us either.

Man U will be the weakest champions the premier league has seen in a decade or more and are in bad shape financially to freshen it up, Chelsea still are reliant on aging players and too much tinkering from above, Arsenal lack in a few key positions and quite simply lack balls and leadership,for me they also have a manager whose best work is behind him and a marquee player without commitment.

City will be better and better i'm sure of that and if i was going to bet i suspect will be champions next year, Spurs who knows? but maybe they will lose a manager soon.

IMO there is not much truly separating the big teams and IF we do it right this summer we can go into next season minus a big black cloud and do very very well.

So although it goes against my naturally pessimistic and cynical nature YES we will finish in the top 4 next season.

I'm confident, we want it badly enough.
 
That's possible of course, but I'm not sure if FSG will look at increasing spending as being the solution for past poor spending.
 
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=44833.msg1311152#msg1311152 date=1302088862]
That's possible of course, but I'm not sure if FSG will look at increasing spending as being the solution for past poor spending.
[/quote]

FSG bought a club on the veritable cheap whcih will not realise its financial potential if it is allowed to die on the vine with a weak squad.

Simply putm, they have to spend and i suspect from the noises coming out that they will. The players that arrive may well not be household names but they will be of better quality than the stop gaps we have been scrabbling around for of late.
 
Yep. They certainly won't regard spending money as the only answer, but they'll surely know it has to play a big part.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44833.msg1311118#msg1311118 date=1302084387]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=44833.msg1311009#msg1311009 date=1302073114]
Top four should be our realistic target next year with a decent cup run to boot.

Whether we turn a top four challenge into a title challenge or thereabouts is dependent on two main outcomes:

The first, more obviously, is the players we bring in over the summer. The owners are making all the right noises to suggest we'll be bringing in a couple of top players (25m or so) and a smattering of potential youngsters (sub 25) making the step up.

The second is our final placing this season. I'd much rather we finish 6th than 5th and miss out on the 20 odd games we'd have to play in the Europa league (and all the sunday/monday games) next season. It'd be a huge benefit to keeping our first eleven fit and relatively fresh all season if we don't have to traipse all around Europe and can concentrate on our top priority week in, week out. WE've dropped far too many points (we're not alone in this) following a midweek trip to Lithuania or somewhere. A season solely prioritising the Premiership will give us an edge over our rivals and we might just end up surprising a few people.

Given the two points above are correct, I'd expect us to have a realistic go at the title and finish top 3.
[/quote]

there is no benefit of not being in europe;

it's a selling point
it's income
it's another trophy

[/quote]

Exactly. Although we're fortunate that we can still attract players because of who we are, European football is a massive selling point and it's also a source of income to attract those players in years to come. It's not only the not being in it that can see us lose out on signings, it's the financial shortfall too.
 
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=44833.msg1311151#msg1311151 date=1302088586]
I'm with Jules on this one, for 3 reasons firstly i think we will strengthen well in summer as for some reason the owners seem to be the real deal secondly we would have finished top 4 this season if we had started right under the right man whom we now have in place and thridly the truth is i have absolutely no confidence in the teams above us either.

Man U will be the weakest champions the premier league has seen in a decade or more and are in bad shape financially to freshen it up, Chelsea still are reliant on aging players and too much tinkering from above, Arsenal lack in a few key positions and quite simply lack balls and leadership,for me they also have a manager whose best work is behind him and a marquee player without commitment.

City will be better and better i'm sure of that and if i was going to bet i suspect will be champions next year, Spurs who knows? but maybe they will lose a manager soon.

IMO there is not much truly separating the big teams and IF we do it right this summer we can go into next season minus a big black cloud and do very very well.

So although it goes against my naturally pessimistic and cynical nature YES we will finish in the top 4 next season.

I'm confident, we want it badly enough.
[/quote]

People have made the same predictions each season Molby. United have been, on paper at least, one of the worst squads to compete consistently, yet they still do. Football is unpredictable. I didn't think Spurs would be as good as they've been at times this season, that Arsenal would get quite as close as they have, or that Citeh would be so inconsistent and lacking in firepower at times (despite their rather fantastic frontline). Or that Chelsea would sign Torres and Luiz.

Any one of those teams could be absolute quality next season, because in simplistic terms, although team wise were not that far away, every one of them is closer to where we want to be than we are, so it's still going to be a battle and at least three of those sides are better equipped to make that step up.
 
As of this precise moment, yes, but that's not the issue. By the beginning of next season things may well have changed.

Besides, there is such a thing as momentum and I think we'll have it behind us. thanks to the King and the change of ownership, to a greater extent than most of those other teams. They've been trying for a while now and haven't succeeded.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44833.msg1311178#msg1311178 date=1302091346]
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=44833.msg1311151#msg1311151 date=1302088586]
I'm with Jules on this one, for 3 reasons firstly i think we will strengthen well in summer as for some reason the owners seem to be the real deal secondly we would have finished top 4 this season if we had started right under the right man whom we now have in place and thridly the truth is i have absolutely no confidence in the teams above us either.

Man U will be the weakest champions the premier league has seen in a decade or more and are in bad shape financially to freshen it up, Chelsea still are reliant on aging players and too much tinkering from above, Arsenal lack in a few key positions and quite simply lack balls and leadership,for me they also have a manager whose best work is behind him and a marquee player without commitment.

City will be better and better i'm sure of that and if i was going to bet i suspect will be champions next year, Spurs who knows? but maybe they will lose a manager soon.

IMO there is not much truly separating the big teams and IF we do it right this summer we can go into next season minus a big black cloud and do very very well.

So although it goes against my naturally pessimistic and cynical nature YES we will finish in the top 4 next season.

I'm confident, we want it badly enough.
[/quote]

People have made the same predictions each season Molby. United have been, on paper at least, one of the worst squads to compete consistently, yet they still do. Football is unpredictable. I didn't think Spurs would be as good as they've been at times this season, that Arsenal would get quite as close as they have, or that Citeh would be so inconsistent and lacking in firepower at times (despite their rather fantastic frontline). Or that Chelsea would sign Torres and Luiz.

Any one of those teams could be absolute quality next season, because in simplistic terms, although team wise were not that far away, every one of them is closer to where we want to be than we are, so it's still going to be a battle and at least three of those sides are better equipped to make that step up.
[/quote]

All points fairly made mark, and football in its very soul is unpredictable none of us know for sure what will happen I just think that we will much better next season and that i'm not so sure that our competition is a strong as it was 3 or 4 seasons ago. I might add that this season was basically went as badly as it could possibly go, Rafa sacked, courtroom battles, poor management and soundbites dragging us down, expensive injured acquisitions, our marquee player sulking the leaving mid stream, our captain and heartbeat of the team breaking down from wear and tear.... it's been an absolute cluster fuck and I really don't think we will let ourselves get so fucked up again next season.

Having said that you are dead right, neither are we as strong as we were a few seasons back, i was sickened to watch Alonso looking majestic last night for Real. And the others! United obviously have the knack still, Arsenal are financially sound and probably won't look to be so stubborn against strengthening this summer, Chelsea and city are financially very different and superior animals to us, Spurs already have three or four top class performers already in situ...

I'm just optimistic that we actually are going to try for the first time in 2 years and think that the new owners and kenny and clarke will pay off. Even when we are really shit i usually retain some sneaky feeling we can/will romp to the league title... I'm desperate to see what we get up to in summer.... i'm not expecting huge spend at all but im really hoping for a couple or three really good players, names not important just quality.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=44833.msg1311148#msg1311148 date=1302087871]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=44833.msg1311072#msg1311072 date=1302080878]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=44833.msg1311009#msg1311009 date=1302073114]
Top four should be our realistic target next year with a decent cup run to boot.

Whether we turn a top four challenge into a title challenge or thereabouts is dependent on two main outcomes:

The first, more obviously, is the players we bring in over the summer. The owners are making all the right noises to suggest we'll be bringing in a couple of top players (25m or so) and a smattering of potential youngsters (sub 25) making the step up.

The second is our final placing this season. I'd much rather we finish 6th than 5th and miss out on the 20 odd games we'd have to play in the Europa league (and all the sunday/monday games) next season. It'd be a huge benefit to keeping our first eleven fit and relatively fresh all season if we don't have to traipse all around Europe and can concentrate on our top priority week in, week out. WE've dropped far too many points (we're not alone in this) following a midweek trip to Lithuania or somewhere. A season solely prioritising the Premiership will give us an edge over our rivals and we might just end up surprising a few people.

Given the two points above are correct, I'd expect us to have a realistic go at the title and finish top 3.
[/quote]

If we don't manage to get into Europe in some form then I fully expect our summer to be far less impressive. Giving up some 10 to 15m in revenue is hardly a good incentive for the new owners to shell out big transfer fees.
[/quote]

Questionable. One could just as easily argue that (a) it demonstrates the need for some major pump-priming to get us back into Europe PDQ and (b), if that's right, it needs to be done before the new Fair Play regs.come into force.
[/quote]

No ones arguing what needs it would demonstrate Jules - the fact we're most likely to finish 6th makes that pretty clear as well. The issue is that NESV have made it crystal clear from the very start that they don't have an unlimited pool of cash and that we will have to run the business efficiently and economically. Dropping the revenue by 10 to 20m and increasing spend at the same time doesn't fit that equation at all.

If we're going to run down the route of the advantage behind no European football then we don't need as large a squad cause we're only competing in 3 competitions. Actually, if Europe isn't important then screw the Carling cup - we're only competing in two. Let's not bring anyone in, play our top team in the league only, qualify for the CL and use that to draw the best players the next season.

I know it pricks the pride a little bit to be in the Europa rather than with the rest of Europes elite where we belong but, if anything, that demonstrates just how important the additional revenue from Europe is for us. I'm reasonably sure Kenny and the management team at NESV would be very pointed in their answer as to whether we need to be in Europe or not.
 
Some great postings here lads. There's no doubt in my mind, that any of these sensationalist articles about us in decline etc are plain silly. Look at the year we had as Molby correctly summarized. And we're still here. We're just four silly results (Wigan, Blackpool, West Ham, West Brom) away from a CL spot. And that after the start that Hodgson gave us? With a depleted squad?

The important thing is that we don't do what we did last season when we signed hodge podge as a manager and let it lower our expectations and standards, and say "Ah well, we can't do any better, sign him, MR Safe hands".

If Rafa can produce the goods, well, so can Kenny - that's my new philosophy.

Width is key. One exciting winger minimum, a great playmaker to begin the secession to Gerrard, and a Central defender as well as one more class striker, attacking midfielder (Yes, you need more than two IMHO).

I expect FSG will spend. They bought the club for a song, and they can surely see that a failure to spend will see their investment decline further. Furthermore, having bought it for a song, they surely have the resources to make it happen.

We're not that far off even if the top 4 are blisteringly good, which they most certainly are not.

Thanks for the great posts
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44833.msg1311118#msg1311118 date=1302084387]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=44833.msg1311009#msg1311009 date=1302073114]
Top four should be our realistic target next year with a decent cup run to boot.

Whether we turn a top four challenge into a title challenge or thereabouts is dependent on two main outcomes:

The first, more obviously, is the players we bring in over the summer. The owners are making all the right noises to suggest we'll be bringing in a couple of top players (25m or so) and a smattering of potential youngsters (sub 25) making the step up.

The second is our final placing this season. I'd much rather we finish 6th than 5th and miss out on the 20 odd games we'd have to play in the Europa league (and all the sunday/monday games) next season. It'd be a huge benefit to keeping our first eleven fit and relatively fresh all season if we don't have to traipse all around Europe and can concentrate on our top priority week in, week out. WE've dropped far too many points (we're not alone in this) following a midweek trip to Lithuania or somewhere. A season solely prioritising the Premiership will give us an edge over our rivals and we might just end up surprising a few people.

Given the two points above are correct, I'd expect us to have a realistic go at the title and finish top 3.
[/quote]

there is no benefit of not being in europe;

it's a selling point
it's income
it's another trophy

[/quote]

We'd play about 15-20 less games
We'd not have to traipse half-way around Europe for a bore draw, before playing a key game 2/3 days later.
We'd be very much focused on the League without the risk of picking up injuries in games outside of our primary goal

There's 3 right there.
 
Providing we sign a handful of decent players, including some creativity for midfield and out wide, then given the form we've had overall since Kenny took over I believe we could be in with a chance of winning the league.
 
We got a lift from Kenny coming in and our form has been good since. However, even if he'd been in place since the start of the season, my guess is we'd not be much more better off than we are now. The feel good factor is wearing thinner, we've had injuries and the lack of class in the squad is starting to tell.
We still need a massive overhaul of the playing squad to compete in my opinion. 1 or 2 signings are not going to turn this squad into World beaters. I don't think we can do it in 1 summer.
 
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=44833.msg1311509#msg1311509 date=1302135258]
We got a lift from Kenny coming in and our form has been good since. However, even if he'd been in place since the start of the season, my guess is we'd not be much more better off than we are now. The feel good factor is wearing thinner, we've had injuries and the lack of class in the squad is starting to tell.
We still need a massive overhaul of the playing squad to compete in my opinion. 1 or 2 signings are not going to turn this squad into World beaters. I don't think we can do it in 1 summer.


[/quote]

If we fall apart in the last two months - and the West Brom result was a concern - then I'll agree with this. However, I think we'll continue forward for the rest of the season and we'll all look back at the start and wonder at what might have been.


It's the squad, as you say, that's the problem. An excellent CB who can control the air and a great wide man - preferably on the left - would be a great summer. If NESV can bring 40m to the table for those two positions then we'll be hugely improved. A pre season for Carroll and Suarez, Gerrard fit with Raul chiming in from behind the strikers will do me. A DM with more bite than Lucas would be good but not at the expense of the two most pressing requirements.

We can be top 4 next season with these two positions covered but, I do agree, we can't get a title challenge in one summer...... unless the others all falter inexplicably.
 
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