• You may have to login or register before you can post and view our exclusive members only forums.
    To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Will The New Transfer Rules Affect The Spending This Summer?

Status
Not open for further replies.

LFD

Active
Member
These are the following new rules which are due to come in 2013:

UEFA Financial Fair Play (FFP) document approved in June 2010
- Financial self sufficiency - spend no more than your revenues
- Encourage long term investment in the sport
• FFP to be core component of UEFA licensing tests
- Series of tests (financial, stadium, sporting) to be admitted to following year’s UEFA competitions
- FFP an enhancement to existing tests - designed to assess clubs’ long term financial condition
• Independent Club Financial Control Panel (CFC) to review financial submissions
• Final review and sanctions to be applied by UEFA
- Sanctions yet to be determined, but could include exclusion from UEFA competitions
• Implementation to begin ahead of registration for season 2013/14
- Previous 2 years accounts (2011/12, 2012/13) considered for entry in 2013/14

Here is an example of how the new transfer rules will affect Chelsea:

http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2011/02/chelseas-financial-fair-play-challenge.html

Now although the rules come in 2013, they actually look at the previous two years account, as to what they can spend in 2013. Therefore clubs have to look already look at these new rules, as what they spend in the next two summers will affect what they can spend in the future.

The new rules look at what clubs have earned in revenue as a club (including sponsorship, ticket sales, merchandise, player sales etc) minus what they have spent as a club (including wages, transfer fees and all other outputs) - and what clubs earn they can then spend.

This is obviosuly to curb the Man City type spending we have seen in recent years and previosuly with Chelsea, who has spend well above their means as a club.... despite not above the means of the owners.

Chelsea and Man City have an extra problem. By 2013 the wages to turnover ratio for clubs need to be below 70% - currently Chelsea's wages to turnover ratio is 82% as shown on the above link and Man City's is 107%. Therefore they are going to have to reduce this figure by 2013, but how do Man City do this when other clubs won't pay the wages they have given to players such as Milner, Barry, Toure, Lescott etc and they refuse to sell these players to other PRemiership clubs - judging what they did to Bellamy. Even if City decide to pay of these players, that will come out of the clubs outputs, which will reduce what they can spend in the future, massively.

Now luckily for us our turnover to wages ratio is fine. It should look a lot better once we get rid of Cole, Jovanovic (90k a week), Maxi (80k a week), Poulsen, Konchesky and others.

I think we need to look at this window as an opportunity to set us up for long term success:

Therefore we'd be better trimming the wage bill, reducing our uneccesary outputs on players offering little. If we sign one or two top players who can sell a lot of shirts (Aguero, Hazard, Bale, Modric etc), then not only will it improve us significantly on the pitch it will help the growth off it, with the extra merchandise sold - which should enable us to spend more in the future.

This is the last time clubs can spend big before being restricted. As stated above, I believe Man City and to a lesser extent Chelsea are already restricted given their wages to turnover ratio.

FSG need to back Dalglish to not only bring back success for the short term, but to enable our club to continue to spend big in the future as we need extra revenue to compete and without a stadium, I think the only way that is going to happen is signing top players who can help us grow off the field, but also making us siccessful on it... as Champs League qualification is going to be essential with these new rules coming in. I get the impression FSG understand all these new conditions though given they are already trying to make us grow off the field with getting Le Bron on board.

But do you think these restrictions will curb Man City's spending this summer? Will it mean we spend big this summer? What would you do if you were FSG?
 
This is a good post and a nice discussion point.

I don't really partake in good threads though. I sometimes pop in to a thread to troll or say that Lucas is a good footballer.

Would someone like Ross reply to this al-fucking-ready?
 
We need to be more cost effective as a squad. Players like Maxi, Jova, Cole, Agger and even perhaps Johnson should be shown the door within the next two years.

There could be £100,000 difference between Johnson and Kelly's wage, and that's just not justified.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=45419.msg1336236#msg1336236 date=1305851694]
We need to be more cost effective as a squad. Players like Maxi, Jova, Cole, Agger and even perhaps Johnson should be shown the door within the next two years.

There could be £100,000 difference between Johnson and Kelly's wage, and that's just not justified.


[/quote]

Kelly will 100% get a contract renewal should he perform well next season. That will put him on 40k per week at the very very least. Johnson will be on 90k per week, but he's not in the same category as Cole, Jova and Maxi who are either warming the bench or not even in the squad. When Johnson's fit, he starts every game. That kind of player commands big wages so I totally disagree with your sentiment regarding him.
 
Johnson's been decent for us, but he's not the superstar his wages suggest he should be. I'm pretty indifferent about it really, but we do have to be smarter with our resources than we have been previously. Do that and the club can shine.
 
[quote author=jon545660 link=topic=45419.msg1336262#msg1336262 date=1305871229]
"Sanctions yet to be determined".

Sounds a bit wooly doesn't it.
[/quote]It wll probably start with a stern letter of warning and then escalate to a couple of hefty fines.
 
That's a fucking good post & thread, thank you LFD.

In principle this is fantastic. However I worry that the authorities will do fuck all to the clubs who need restricting, as they have a record of submission to them (this includes us some of the time). In a similar fashion to F1, where the authorities don't take actions against Ferrari, you find uefa & FIFA relectutant to upset the breadwinners in terms of tv revenue.

I hope I'm wrong, & they take quick decisive action against those you don't fulfil the rules, but I suspect they'll be their usual corrupt (alledgedly) selves instead.
 
[quote author=jon545660 link=topic=45419.msg1336262#msg1336262 date=1305871229]
"Sanctions yet to be determined".

Sounds a bit wooly doesn't it.
[/quote]

Exactly. What I thought when I read it first as well; it feels like they're giving themselves wiggle room depending on how many of the big clubs are affected by the rules.

If it's just fines and warning letters, they might as well just forget the rules altogether. It has to be denial of entry to the competition, or at the very least, 6-point deductions in the group stages for the hurt to set in.

If they're really serious about it, there should be some plan to progressively scale the wage to turnover percentage down from 70% to say, 60% or even 55% over the years.
 
Good thread.

Sadly I too have zero confidence in the football authorities to do anything like this properly. They don't want the big clubs and top players out of the top competitions.

The rich clubs aren't stupid. Not only can they afford the best players they can also afford the best lawyers. If they spend big now its a good sign that they've found some kind of loophole.
 
What worries me about the FFP rules is loopholes. Such as turning debt into equity.
 
It is so easy to circumvent the rules.

What is there to stop the owner to pay their clubs advertisement fees?

One billion from Roman to Chelsea and one billion from Sheik to City. Sorted! What ratios are they talking about?
 
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=45419.msg1336287#msg1336287 date=1305879046]
It is so easy to circumvent the rules.

What is there to stop the owner to pay their clubs advertisement fees?

One billion from Roman to Chelsea and one billion from Sheik to City. Sorted! What ratios are they talking about?
[/quote]

The article posted a while back suggested that wouldn't be allowed, although I'm sure there will still be loopholes.

The worry is that it was said that clubs could still be in debt as long as their was a long-term strategic plan to reduce that debt and clear evidence points to the fact that it's being acted on.

If that's how it's going to work, I don't think City or Chelsea have that much to worry about in the short-term.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=45419.msg1336293#msg1336293 date=1305879691]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=45419.msg1336287#msg1336287 date=1305879046]
It is so easy to circumvent the rules.

What is there to stop the owner to pay their clubs advertisement fees?

One billion from Roman to Chelsea and one billion from Sheik to City. Sorted! What ratios are they talking about?
[/quote]

The article posted a while back suggested that wouldn't be allowed, although I'm sure there will still be loopholes.

The worry is that it was said that clubs could still be in debt as long as their was a long-term strategic plan to reduce that debt and clear evidence points to the fact that it's being acted on.

If that's how it's going to work, I don't think City or Chelsea have that much to worry about in the short-term.
[/quote]

Advertisement revenue is revenue in any books. Sheik and Roman do not need to show they paid for it. They simply create a company run by proxies needing exposures in the Middle East and Rusia and viola they give big bucks to sponsor this and that in the clubs they own.
 
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=45419.msg1336298#msg1336298 date=1305880194]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=45419.msg1336293#msg1336293 date=1305879691]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=45419.msg1336287#msg1336287 date=1305879046]
It is so easy to circumvent the rules.

What is there to stop the owner to pay their clubs advertisement fees?

One billion from Roman to Chelsea and one billion from Sheik to City. Sorted! What ratios are they talking about?
[/quote]

The article posted a while back suggested that wouldn't be allowed, although I'm sure there will still be loopholes.

The worry is that it was said that clubs could still be in debt as long as their was a long-term strategic plan to reduce that debt and clear evidence points to the fact that it's being acted on.

If that's how it's going to work, I don't think City or Chelsea have that much to worry about in the short-term.
[/quote]

Advertisement revenue is revenue in any books. Sheik and Roman do not need to show they paid for it. They simply create a company run by proxies needing exposures in the Middle East and Rusia and viola they give big bucks to sponsor this and that in the clubs they own.
[/quote]

They can't just do that. Any incomes such as advertisement and sponsorship has to be at fair market value. So they can't just sponsor a shirt for say £300m
 
Part of me worries if this will just create more problems really. If the rich clubs can find a way round it they will be unaffected but small clubs also run at losses and probably won't be able to get round it in the same way.
 
People are saying there will be loop holes - but clubs can still only have 70% wage to turnerover ratio. That will mean clubs like City can't just throw ridiculous money at above average players, like they have done.

Uefa have to be strong but in theory this should work and if City want to risk being thrown out of the Champs League for not complying - more fool them!
 
The rules will affect those teams who intend to abide by them. The details have been known long enough now for every top accountancy and law firm to have figured out in advance the best way to stretch the rules or excuse themselves from them.

I think we're one that will abide by them, and because of that I don't foresee the massive summer that has been rumoured as being likely or possible.
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=45419.msg1336283#msg1336283 date=1305878049]
What worries me about the FFP rules is loopholes. Such as turning debt into equity.
[/quote]

that's a balance sheet adjustment, and wouldn't be reflected in profit.

the main concerns imo are the ones keni raised such as uefa taking a softly softly approach to clubs who breach the limits but 'appear' to be on the right track. i think that's how the likes of chelsea and city will get round it, rather than anything drastic.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=45419.msg1338179#msg1338179 date=1306229982]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=45419.msg1336283#msg1336283 date=1305878049]
What worries me about the FFP rules is loopholes. Such as turning debt into equity.
[/quote]

that's a balance sheet adjustment, and wouldn't be reflected in profit.

the main concerns imo are the ones keni raised such as uefa taking a softly softly approach to clubs who breach the limits but 'appear' to be on the right track. i think that's how the likes of chelsea and city will get round it, rather than anything drastic.
[/quote]

Yeh, I kind of thought about that one. It couldn't be classed as revenue so would fall outside the rules. If UEFA take the softly softly approaqch it would make a mockery though but wouldn't put it past them as they're joke as it is
 
yep, unfortunately i really think that's what they'll do. marcotti wrote a piece a few weeks back and apparently there are specific allowances in the rules for them to wave through clubs at their discretion, so long as they 'think' clubs are going in the right direction they'll be let off. it's ridiculously unfair on any club who follows the rules, in fact it's so unfair that i'm not sure any club will bother, unless they want to break even for their own sake.
 
You can see a few legal challenges coming about if they do go soft. UEFA and FIFA are corrupt as fuck though so I doubt they'll get anywhere.
 
UEFA have been a joke for decades; these rules are a joke and when they come undon and numerous trees are felled talking about hw they were doomed from the start UEFA will probably claim it's Liverpool's fault, like they blame us for Heysel and Algerian independence.

We're not going to out spend these cunts, what I'm feverntly hoping for is that we out-think them.
 
We seem to have owners who are extremely savvy when it comes to marketing and generating revenue streams (and yes the purists dont like it but it can't be fucking helped; because we are NOT going to be called the History Channel for much longer, we musnt let it)

If that can be allied with people with good contacts for players then we have every chance of doing as well as those bastards.

Squad depth is important, but it's still 11 v 11.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom