Where does Klopp rank against all time league greats? If at all.

[Fabio]

I'm not really arsed. I think ranking mangers from different periods is next to impossible. Neither Fergusson or Wenger had to compete against anything like the sustained quality of Manchester City. Even comparing Pep and Klopp is challenging enough and they're at the same time. Who knows where Benitez would have been with better ownership and competence.

I've seen enough to know that Klopp is comfortably the best manager I've seen at Liverpool. He has benefitted from FSGs general competence and skilled people behind the scenes, however he has also transcended all that to be the leading figurehead and has also rebuilt the effectively when the back of house operations has been a mess. He arguably should have won more, but neutrals will remember him for making the PL interesting and competitive and Liverpool fans will remember him for the title and the CL. Fergusson was the one to knock us off our perch then Klopp was the man to restore us back to being a credible, elite club that can match anyone in Europe.

I don't think one manager has ever been hit by so many outliers or external events that have cost him on the pitch

At a broad level - there is 115 breaches from Man City.
At match level think about things like the Karius concussion, the Paris police ensuring our crowd for that final was at 5% of its usual passion. The key VAR calls in the seasons we came runner up by a point, both in our games and city's games.

None of this in his control, and all of these not happening would have seen Klopp here with 2-3 PL titles & 2-3 CLs.

Both of these, more than fair. Squiggles i completely agree with.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Once more with feeling

My point, and always has been, and i have made this painstakingly clear throughout all this conversaiton, has been on english domestic, only. Not european. Add in European then yes, obviously klopp moves up a bit. Not much, as he still lost 3 european finals for us, but he definitely moves up

Fucks sake, genuinely people cannot fucking read, or don't bother their fucking arse to read because they're immediately assuming i'm slagging klopp off. Which i haven't. At any stage.

You cannot possibly talk about domestic and not talk European too. It has such an influence on it. It makes zero sense to disregard it.

 

[Fabio]

You cannot possibly talk about domestic and not talk European too. It has such an influence on it. It makes zero sense to disregard it.

ok, maybe you can't; i can however. And thats what i've always maintained.

 

[Fabio]

Roberto Di Matteo, a true premier league maestro, as he won the CL

 

[Tinto]

I don't think one manager has ever been hit by so many outliers or external events that have cost him on the pitch

At a broad level - there is 115 breaches from Man City.
At match level think about things like the Karius concussion, the Paris police ensuring our crowd for that final was at 5% of its usual passion. The key VAR calls in the seasons we came runner up by a point, both in our games and city's games.

None of this in his control, and all of these not happening would have seen Klopp here with 2-3 PL titles & 2-3 CLs.

Let's not forget Covid. Any planning that we had in place for the squad went out of the window.

This wouldn't matter if it affected City as well but we know it didn't

 

[bluebell]

Lets say we get Xabi in, and if he wins 2 titles in 4 years, how many of us would rank him above Klopp? I know we will quickly become tribal with one group hating on Klopp... Happened under Benitez where people hated on GH.

 

[Farkmaster]

Lets say we get Xabi in, and if he wins 2 titles in 4 years, how many of us would rank him above Klopp? I know we will quickly become tribal with one group hating on Klopp... Happened under Benitez where people hated on GH.

It'd be hell if we had to decide which was better, utter hell. We'll be tearing flesh from each other about which successful manager was more successful. The thought of it makes me ill. I think I'd rather have failure than that sort of acrimony.

 

[Farkmaster]

Remember after Barcelona when we had to debate which amazing comeback was more amazing?

I can't soldier through that again!

 

[localny]

If he wins the PL this summer, he's up there. If he doesn't he'll be just below Shanks, Paisley, Fagan.

 

[LarryHagman]

For LFC I'd put Bob, Shanks and The King above him.

Outside of LFC, not worth talking about, we wouldn't be happy with the outcome.

Great manager, great bloke.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Roberto Di Matteo, a true premier league maestro, as he won the CL

Did he do both? Did he build the team from the ground up?

 

[juniormember]

Lets say we get Xabi in, and if he wins 2 titles in 4 years, how many of us would rank him above Klopp? I know we will quickly become tribal with one group hating on Klopp... Happened under Benitez where people hated on GH.

It’s an interesting question, because for the longest time, even after Paisley won a bunch of titles, Shankly was considered by many to be the best. Because he built the foundations for the success that came after.
While Klopp didn’t exactly rebuild a Championship team, it was still a horribly shit squad that needed a complete rebuild. He did that, and now has done that for the second time by revamping the squad.

If whoever comes in this summer ends up with a league title, there will be a lot of people giving Klopp credit in the same manner, I imagine. You only have to look at the state of the Manc squad when Fergie left.
What Klopp’s done is exceptional.

 

[Modo]

Lets say we get Xabi in, and if he wins 2 titles in 4 years, how many of us would rank him above Klopp? I know we will quickly become tribal with one group hating on Klopp... Happened under Benitez where people hated on GH.

I hated on GH because we played shit football. Football comes first for me.

 

[Fabio]

Did he do both? Did he build the team from the ground up?

Medals.

On.

The.

Table.

Outside of LFC, which is what my whole point, people won't care if he built us back up.

Do Matteo incidentally won the fa cup that year as well. A double!

 

[jexykrodic]

Often when a great manager leaves or retires his squad is usually past peak; unusually Klopp is leaving a talented and developing squad. For this alone I would say he has managed things appreciably. If I was owner I'd be more than pleased - no firefighting, no expensive rebuilds or warring fanbase. A stable, optimistic club with a hopeful future.

I'm well aware that no-one outside of club and it's fans could give a shit but then they wouldn't would they.

Klopp for me is top of the pile for not only a trophy haul most clubs are envious of, playing a great brand of football but by rebuilding us twice in often unforeseeable and turbulent times (covid, ESL threat) and within the rules and by promoting and deploying an effective academy.

Owners have seen their investment grow tenfold, you can't get a ticket even in a bigger stadium; and no doubt the club can now attract better players.

This scenario doesn't happen often, it may be unique, 'Klopp ist der meister'.

 

[Tinto]

[QUOTE="Fabio, post: 2306414, member: 371"

Outside of LFC, which is what my whole point, people won't care if he built us back up.
[/QUOTE]

I think the more objective football fans would

 

[Fabio]

[QUOTE="Fabio, post: 2306414, member: 371"

Outside of LFC, which is what my whole point, people won't care if he built us back up.

I think the more objective football fans would
[/QUOTE]

Maybe, but equally they'll praise building arsenal with their invincibles more, and mourinho with their truly incredible defence first time, and rebuilding for the second stint.

We cant assume objectivity from others for us without assuming they'll give it to others too.