Whelan: Rafa's days are numbered....

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36883.msg977078#msg977078 date=1257155238]
Whelan was a magnificent player but he's a manc-loving boozer who talks crap these days. This absurd cod-psychology that leads idiots to claim any manager WANTS to lose games is becoming an epidemic. Complain about someone's mistakes, fine, but don't project on to them some illogical notion about which games they want to win and which they're happy to lose. It's not worthy of a five year old.
[/quote]

He didn't say Rafa wanted to lose the game. He said that he was prioritizing the European Cup. There's a difference. And Rafa's substitutions didn't help him refute that claim, did they?

I've met Ronnie Whelan a couple of times, and he's no manc fan, despite what you'll hear on here... He respects them, but he loves Liverpool and wants them back to top, like the rest of us.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=36883.msg977283#msg977283 date=1257178400]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=36883.msg977118#msg977118 date=1257159430]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=36883.msg977069#msg977069 date=1257154358]
I dont know much about Defour either, apart from the fact that hes injured and corresponding with alex ferguson
[/quote]

Glock embarassed ... again.
[/quote]


actually he would have been fit if he came to us because he got injured during the season, not during off season.
glocks got a point and even though i rate aqua i still think he screwed up by wasting 20million on an injured player. as for johnson i dont agree with you there glock because arbeloa wanted to leave and johnson is awesome
[/quote]

People have banged on about Rafa settling for second best for years, instead of waiting for his prime target or the funds to be available. So I really don't get this point over Aquilani.

Should Rafa have lowered his sights and gone for someone else for the sake of a few months? When ultimately we could get years out of his prime target, at the sacrifice of a couple of months?

I know it was a gamble relying on Lucas, but half the problem aswell has been that Gerrard has struggled, so that 3rd option hasn't been there, which is something we or Rafa couldn't have accounted for. Hindsight and all that.

 

[gkmacca]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=36883.msg977286#msg977286 date=1257179114]
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36883.msg977078#msg977078 date=1257155238]
Whelan was a magnificent player but he's a manc-loving boozer who talks crap these days. This absurd cod-psychology that leads idiots to claim any manager WANTS to lose games is becoming an epidemic. Complain about someone's mistakes, fine, but don't project on to them some illogical notion about which games they want to win and which they're happy to lose. It's not worthy of a five year old.
[/quote]

He didn't say Rafa wanted to lose the game. He said that he was prioritizing the European Cup. There's a difference. If you believe that, you should be a hermeneutical scholar.And Rafa's substitutions didn't help him refute that claim, did they?Torres was off because of injury as we all know. Benayoun? No idea why, as you don't, either.

I've met Ronnie Whelan a couple of times, and he's no manc fan, despite what you'll hear on here... He respects them, but he loves Liverpool and wants them back to top, like the rest of us.
I've met him, too, so cut out the PR.

[/quote]

 

[Whaddapie]

Jeez, Macca... Don't like being debated all of a sudden?

There is a HUGE difference between saying "wants to lose" and "prioritizing", and you bloody well know it...

You're right that I don't know why Yossi was taken off when we desperatetly needed a goal. Was he injured? Didn't look like it... He wasn't happy about it. Looked to me like the game was being conceded, with a big European match coming up. Just my opinion, but one I feel entitled to, given the evidence before me.

I wasn't trying to pull a "I know Ronnie, so...", which I suspect you also know. I was simply disagreeing with your prior statement, and giving my reasons for doing so.

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=36883.msg977286#msg977286 date=1257179114]
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36883.msg977078#msg977078 date=1257155238]
Whelan was a magnificent player but he's a manc-loving boozer who talks crap these days. This absurd cod-psychology that leads idiots to claim any manager WANTS to lose games is becoming an epidemic. Complain about someone's mistakes, fine, but don't project on to them some illogical notion about which games they want to win and which they're happy to lose. It's not worthy of a five year old.
[/quote]

He didn't say Rafa wanted to lose the game. He said that he was prioritizing the European Cup. There's a difference. And Rafa's substitutions didn't help him refute that claim, did they?

I've met Ronnie Whelan a couple of times, and he's no manc fan, despite what you'll hear on here... He respects them, but he loves Liverpool and wants them back to top, like the rest of us.


[/quote]

Whether he said Rafa wanted to lose the game or was prioristing the Champions League the main thing that sticks in my throat is he said he did it to engineer himself another job. Which is a completely sly and underhand statement. Whatever mistakes Benitez makes I'm 100% sure he believes he is doing what is the best for Liverpool Football Club and doesn't do for perception by some future employer.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36883.msg977287#msg977287 date=1257179172]
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=36883.msg977283#msg977283 date=1257178400]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=36883.msg977118#msg977118 date=1257159430]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=36883.msg977069#msg977069 date=1257154358]
I dont know much about Defour either, apart from the fact that hes injured and corresponding with alex ferguson
[/quote]

Glock embarassed ... again.
[/quote]


actually he would have been fit if he came to us because he got injured during the season, not during off season.
glocks got a point and even though i rate aqua i still think he screwed up by wasting 20million on an injured player. as for johnson i dont agree with you there glock because arbeloa wanted to leave and johnson is awesome
[/quote]

People have banged on about Rafa settling for second best for years, instead of waiting for his prime target or the funds to be available. So I really don't get this point over Aquilani.

Should Rafa have lowered his sights and gone for someone else for the sake of a few months? When ultimately we could get years out of his prime target, at the sacrifice of a couple of months?

I know it was a gamble relying on Lucas, but half the problem aswell has been that Gerrard has struggled, so that 3rd option hasn't been there, which is something we or Rafa couldn't have accounted for. Hindsight and all that.
[/quote]

Thats a good point.

Carra has come in for his fair share of criticism, yet hardly anyone has mentioned the fact that SG has been way below his best so far this season.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36883.msg977287#msg977287 date=1257179172]
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=36883.msg977283#msg977283 date=1257178400]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=36883.msg977118#msg977118 date=1257159430]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=36883.msg977069#msg977069 date=1257154358]
I dont know much about Defour either, apart from the fact that hes injured and corresponding with alex ferguson
[/quote]

Glock embarassed ... again.
[/quote]


actually he would have been fit if he came to us because he got injured during the season, not during off season.
glocks got a point and even though i rate aqua i still think he screwed up by wasting 20million on an injured player. as for johnson i dont agree with you there glock because arbeloa wanted to leave and johnson is awesome
[/quote]

People have banged on about Rafa settling for second best for years, instead of waiting for his prime target or the funds to be available. So I really don't get this point over Aquilani.

Should Rafa have lowered his sights and gone for someone else for the sake of a few months? When ultimately we could get years out of his prime target, at the sacrifice of a couple of months?

I know it was a gamble relying on Lucas, but half the problem aswell has been that Gerrard has struggled, so that 3rd option hasn't been there, which is something we or Rafa couldn't have accounted for. Hindsight and all that.
[/quote]

Again, good post, and a key point.

It's not the purchase of Aquilani - who I believe to be a fine player - which should draw criticism. It's the purchase and continued over faith in the £6M Brazilian. Gerrard and Masher should have been our CM partnership from day one, though I was one of few considering it in the summer.

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=36883.msg977307#msg977307 date=1257180765]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=36883.msg977286#msg977286 date=1257179114]
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36883.msg977078#msg977078 date=1257155238]
Whelan was a magnificent player but he's a manc-loving boozer who talks crap these days. This absurd cod-psychology that leads idiots to claim any manager WANTS to lose games is becoming an epidemic. Complain about someone's mistakes, fine, but don't project on to them some illogical notion about which games they want to win and which they're happy to lose. It's not worthy of a five year old.
[/quote]

He didn't say Rafa wanted to lose the game. He said that he was prioritizing the European Cup. There's a difference. And Rafa's substitutions didn't help him refute that claim, did they?

I've met Ronnie Whelan a couple of times, and he's no manc fan, despite what you'll hear on here... He respects them, but he loves Liverpool and wants them back to top, like the rest of us.


[/quote]

Whether he said Rafa wanted to lose the game or was prioristing the Champions League the main thing that sticks in my throat is he said he did it to engineer himself another job. Which is a completely sly and underhand statement. Whatever mistakes Benitez makes I'm 100% sure he believes he is doing what is the best for Liverpool Football Club and doesn't do for perception by some future employer.
[/quote]

Ok. Can see your point there, alright. Don't necessarily agree, but understand.

 

[Fallon]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36883.msg977287#msg977287 date=1257179172]
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=36883.msg977283#msg977283 date=1257178400]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=36883.msg977118#msg977118 date=1257159430]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=36883.msg977069#msg977069 date=1257154358]
I dont know much about Defour either, apart from the fact that hes injured and corresponding with alex ferguson
[/quote]

Glock embarassed ... again.
[/quote]


actually he would have been fit if he came to us because he got injured during the season, not during off season.
glocks got a point and even though i rate aqua i still think he screwed up by wasting 20million on an injured player. as for johnson i dont agree with you there glock because arbeloa wanted to leave and johnson is awesome
[/quote]

People have banged on about Rafa settling for second best for years, instead of waiting for his prime target or the funds to be available. So I really don't get this point over Aquilani.

Should Rafa have lowered his sights and gone for someone else for the sake of a few months? When ultimately we could get years out of his prime target, at the sacrifice of a couple of months?

I know it was a gamble relying on Lucas, but half the problem aswell has been that Gerrard has struggled, so that 3rd option hasn't been there, which is something we or Rafa couldn't have accounted for. Hindsight and all that.
[/quote]

Spot on Mark.

 

[gkmacca]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=36883.msg977301#msg977301 date=1257180463]
Jeez, Macca... Don't like being debated all of a sudden?

There is a HUGE difference between saying "wants to lose" and "prioritizing", and you bloody well know it...

You're right that I don't know why Yossi was taken off when we desperatetly needed a goal. Was he injured? Didn't look like it... He wasn't happy about it. Looked to me like the game was being conceded, with a big European match coming up. Just my opinion, but one I feel entitled to, given the evidence before me.

I wasn't trying to pull a "I know Ronnie, so...", which I suspect you also know. I was simply disagreeing with your prior statement, and giving my reasons for doing so.
[/quote]

Nope, no more than you, so that's unnecessary. I just don't really see the point in defending his rant by suggesting that he wasn't implying anything more than Benitez didn't want to win the Fulham match as much as the Lyon match. I really doubt Benitez is any less vain or arrogant or competitive than Wenger or Ginsoak, so I also find it hard to believe that he sits there thinking 'I'll throw this match at this point in because I love Europe so much'. Pragmatism in particular situations, well, that's another matter, and without knowledge of all the factors I'm not sure how to judge the decisions seriously. The whole notion, however it's phrased, is moronic, whether it's Jamie Redknapp or Whelan or anyone else. Whelan's rant was as bad as Collymore's.

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36883.msg977356#msg977356 date=1257183853]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=36883.msg977301#msg977301 date=1257180463]
Jeez, Macca... Don't like being debated all of a sudden?

There is a HUGE difference between saying "wants to lose" and "prioritizing", and you bloody well know it...

You're right that I don't know why Yossi was taken off when we desperatetly needed a goal. Was he injured? Didn't look like it... He wasn't happy about it. Looked to me like the game was being conceded, with a big European match coming up. Just my opinion, but one I feel entitled to, given the evidence before me.

I wasn't trying to pull a "I know Ronnie, so...", which I suspect you also know. I was simply disagreeing with your prior statement, and giving my reasons for doing so.
[/quote]

Nope, no more than you, so that's unnecessary. I just don't really see the point in defending his rant by suggesting that he wasn't implying anything more than Benitez didn't want to win the Fulham match as much as the Lyon match. I really doubt Benitez is any less vain or arrogant or competitive than Wenger or Ginsoak, so I also find it hard to believe that he sits there thinking 'I'll throw this match at this point in because I love Europe so much'. Pragmatism in particular situations, well, that's another matter, and without knowledge of all the factors I'm not sure how to judge the decisions seriously. The whole notion, however it's phrased, is moronic, whether it's Jamie Redknapp or Whelan or anyone else. Whelan's rant was as bad as Collymore's.
[/quote]

I'm not defending the rant, necessarily... I don't agree with everything he said, by any means.

But I'm debating you on two things that you said that I feel are inaccurate here.

1) I'm debating you on your take that Ronnie said Rafa "wanted to lose" at Fulham. He didn't say that. He said that Europe's more important to him. That's NOT the same thing.

Even in this response above, you use the term "I'll throw this match..." in explaining your thoughts. He didn't imply Rafa was "throwing" anything. He said that he put Europe ahead on the League in his priorities. Which I think that he does. Which many others here agree with too. And which can be agrued based on how he used his substitues on Saturday and in previous campaigns.

You can prioritize one competition without "trying to lose" all the others.

And, 2) He's not a fan of Man U. He's LFC through and through, but like Hansen for example, he can see our flaws, isn't afraid to discuss them, and he can acknowledge and respect the strengths of other teams. I know this for a fact. Sorry if that comes over a certain way - It's not supposed to... I can't help how I know this to be true.

 

[gkmacca]

If all he meant was a non-specific observation that the manager prioritised one competiton over the other, I'm not sure why he mentioned it; he certainly didn't prove it. If he meant the manager lost that game because of that prioritisation, and that was predictable before it began, then he didn't provide a remotely accurate or cogent explanation of why that was. So what are we left with? So what was the implication?

As for him being a Red 'through and through,' you'll have to respect my personal observations as I do yours. The Hansen comparison was a poor one, though. Hansen would never behave like that.

 

[manwithnoname]

Macca correct again

Whelan's a gobby, red-faced dipso in his 'pundit' guise

 

[SaintGeorge67]

I will never advocate the sacking of a manager because I never had the bottle to do the job, but Benitez is under pressure.

Alan Hansen quoted today. Much more respectful.

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=36883.msg977286#msg977286 date=1257179114]
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36883.msg977078#msg977078 date=1257155238]
Whelan was a magnificent player but he's a manc-loving boozer who talks crap these days. This absurd cod-psychology that leads idiots to claim any manager WANTS to lose games is becoming an epidemic. Complain about someone's mistakes, fine, but don't project on to them some illogical notion about which games they want to win and which they're happy to lose. It's not worthy of a five year old.
[/quote]

He didn't say Rafa wanted to lose the game. He said that he was prioritizing the European Cup. There's a difference. And Rafa's substitutions didn't help him refute that claim, did they?

I've met Ronnie Whelan a couple of times, and he's no manc fan, despite what you'll hear on here... He respects them, but he loves Liverpool and wants them back to top, like the rest of us.


[/quote]

Ronnie Whelan admitted on LFCtv that he had always been a Manc fan. I heard him say it.

So which Ronnie Whelan are you talking about?

 

[gene hughes]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=36883.msg977307#msg977307 date=1257180765]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=36883.msg977286#msg977286 date=1257179114]
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36883.msg977078#msg977078 date=1257155238]
Whelan was a magnificent player but he's a manc-loving boozer who talks crap these days. This absurd cod-psychology that leads idiots to claim any manager WANTS to lose games is becoming an epidemic. Complain about someone's mistakes, fine, but don't project on to them some illogical notion about which games they want to win and which they're happy to lose. It's not worthy of a five year old.
[/quote]

He didn't say Rafa wanted to lose the game. He said that he was prioritizing the European Cup. There's a difference. And Rafa's substitutions didn't help him refute that claim, did they?

I've met Ronnie Whelan a couple of times, and he's no manc fan, despite what you'll hear on here... He respects them, but he loves Liverpool and wants them back to top, like the rest of us.


[/quote]

Whether he said Rafa wanted to lose the game or was prioristing the Champions League the main thing that sticks in my throat is he said he did it to engineer himself another job. Which is a completely sly and underhand statement. Whatever mistakes Benitez makes I'm 100% sure he believes he is doing what is the best for Liverpool Football Club and doesn't do for perception by some future employer.
[/quote]

I agree with that. Whelan is bitter for some reason. When I lived in Asia he was often on ESPN/Star Sports and he and McMahon were rabidly anti-Rafa.

 

[Jack D Rips]

Like I said earlier. I heard his prematch comments on RTE radio on Saturday. He DID NOT mention the fact that the team sheet convinced him of Rafa's intentions. He predicted a draw.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=36883.msg977439#msg977439 date=1257192706]
Like I said earlier. I heard his prematch comments on RTE radio on Saturday. He DID NOT mention the fact that the team sheet convinced him of Rafa's intentions. He predicted a draw.
[/quote]

But that was before the substitutions. It's the substitutions he was referring to, not the starting line-up.

But the stuff about Benitez prioritising the Champions League so he can get a job somewhere else is bollox.

 

[themn]

What is it with ex Reds going on RTE and dropping a bollock ?

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=36883.msg977433#msg977433 date=1257192211]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=36883.msg977286#msg977286 date=1257179114]
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36883.msg977078#msg977078 date=1257155238]
Whelan was a magnificent player but he's a manc-loving boozer who talks crap these days. This absurd cod-psychology that leads idiots to claim any manager WANTS to lose games is becoming an epidemic. Complain about someone's mistakes, fine, but don't project on to them some illogical notion about which games they want to win and which they're happy to lose. It's not worthy of a five year old.
[/quote]

He didn't say Rafa wanted to lose the game. He said that he was prioritizing the European Cup. There's a difference. And Rafa's substitutions didn't help him refute that claim, did they?

I've met Ronnie Whelan a couple of times, and he's no manc fan, despite what you'll hear on here... He respects them, but he loves Liverpool and wants them back to top, like the rest of us.


[/quote]

Ronnie Whelan admitted on LFCtv that he had always been a Manc fan. I heard him say it.

So which Ronnie Whelan are you talking about?
[/quote]

Let me clarify...

I know that Ronnie grew up a manc fan.

What I meant was, he told me that since he played for us he changed his allegence, and now, though he still respects them, and certainly doesn't hate them, he favours us over them. He wants us to win now, like he did as a player.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Hahaha.

 

[dubluke]

Ronnie Whelan is headwrecking. I wouldn't mind if he had some interesting insights, but he's just like a bore down the pub. I can't believe people get paid money to say things like "Without Torres and Gerrard Liverpool are a weaker team" FFS

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=36883.msg977514#msg977514 date=1257201187]
Hahaha.
[/quote]

What?

 

[gene hughes]

He said "ha ha".

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=36883.msg977557#msg977557 date=1257206909]
He said "ha ha".
[/quote]

True.

Why?

 

[Jack D Rips]

[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=36883.msg977470#msg977470 date=1257197006]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=36883.msg977439#msg977439 date=1257192706]
Like I said earlier. I heard his prematch comments on RTE radio on Saturday. He DID NOT mention the fact that the team sheet convinced him of Rafa's intentions. He predicted a draw.
[/quote]

But that was before the substitutions. It's the substitutions he was referring to, not the starting line-up.

But the stuff about Benitez prioritising the Champions League so he can get a job somewhere else is bollox.
[/quote]

Sheik read the first post again. He said "when I saw the team I knew he wasnt bothered about the game". He knew the team when he commented on radio

 

[Avmenon]

I agree with that. Whelan is bitter for some reason. When I lived in Asia he was often on ESPN/Star Sports and he and McMahon were rabidly anti-Rafa.
[/quote]

Macca isn't so bad tho; true, he's been extremely critical of Rafa's tactics which he's always labelled to be too defensive.

But he's been pleased as punch when we've gone for the jugular and battered opponents; I think he's just desperate to see us become great again.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=36883.msg977283#msg977283 date=1257178400]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=36883.msg977118#msg977118 date=1257159430]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=36883.msg977069#msg977069 date=1257154358]
I dont know much about Defour either, apart from the fact that hes injured and corresponding with alex ferguson
[/quote]

Glock embarassed ... again.
[/quote]


actually he would have been fit if he came to us because he got injured during the season, not during off season.
glocks got a point and even though i rate aqua i still think he screwed up by wasting 20million on an injured player. as for johnson i dont agree with you there glock because arbeloa wanted to leave and johnson is awesome
[/quote]

You had to google 'Ronnie Whelan' didn't you?