And he was still shit at 30.
We need to talk about Keita..
- Thread starter The Nomad
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Keita will come good. It is allways a risk finding new guys for CM.... But I believe he will prove worth the outlay.
There's no denying it's been a frustrating season from him, however Keita has had an excellent last 135 minutes in a red shirt. He's certainly better deeper in the midfield, picking passes, linking play and driving forward when the opportunity arises. He looks lost when he's asked to be the one making the runs. He's starting to find his place in this team and with the talent he has and that's pretty exciting. Keita will not be a divisive player. He's got too much natural ability to not become a universally appreciated and influential player at this football club.
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Which to a degree is also bollocks because no-one, at the match or not, and I've been to many, follows all 11 players for 90 mins. They follow the ball. It's not really a difficult concept to grasp. You make it sound like people at the match see the minutiae, they don't unless it's right in front of them and differing seat positions give a totally different perspective of the game and incidents (Woland even mentioned that from his seat trying to determine if a player at the other end was 10m or 20m from goal etc. was difficult). And as I said, midfielders are in the frame far more often than not and a reel of a player's every touch in a match isn't selective, it's illuminating because nobody's memory is that good.
I don't disagree that for people at the match it's a different, and oft times valuable, perspective but you are imbuing spectators at the game with a God-like power to assess, and when many come away with differing opinions (just check the MotM ratings from different people who go to games) that is clearly not the case. Which is what does my fucking head in at times with some posters.
I didn't say it's as good. I said you see a player's performance in a different light because his every touch is shown. The rest I addressed above.
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Well there's a lot of hyperbole in that and I can't be arsed going through it all however as far the goals is concerned this season : Hendo 0 (from 600+ more mins), Gini 2, Milner 5 (2 open play nd 3 pens), Fabs 1, Lallana 0, and most of those have many more mins on the pitch playing in their favoured positions and also played in the CL matches (Keita has had 54 mins in the CL). Basically none of our midfielders score many goals !
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The last time I saw Suarez at Anfield i spent the whole game watching him.
Bollocks.
Most who actually play a decent amount do score though. He should have 5 or 6 by now.
He's been rubbish.
Hopefully he's turned the corner but he has a long way to go to prove it yet.
Think what you like. I usually concentrate on a player when it's a superstar and I might not get to see him them.
I did it when i saw fat Ronaldo for Real, I've done it with Suarez, Gerrard, Roy Keane.
For exactly the reasons I've said. You learn so much about them seeing them in the flesh than what you get to see on TV.
Most of our midfielders only ave. 5-6 over a full season, and that's the best of them. More Dreamy hyperbole.
Most of current lot who we are trying to upgrade. Ox would have that many. Coutinho would. Shaq has played sparingly and has what 4?
He was brought in to score goals among other things and he hasn’t even gotten one.
No hyperbole in that.
He’s been a disaster so far.
Does Keita need a bit of gym work? I notice he seems to lose balance quite a bit. I've lost count of the times I've seen him picking himself of the ground after an attempted tackle or dribble. I think the same happened to Bobby when he first joined he seemed like he couldn't get to grips with things physically but then after a while he adjusted. Hopefully it's the same situation with Keita.
I suspect its the opposite. For the same reason as it was for Firmino & other players we signed.
It's the 'bulking up/core strengthening' thing that Klopp has our signings do (with the obv exception of Shaqiri!), it means they often look a bit slow on the turn for a while, their burst of pace deserts them & their balance is compromised.
It returns with aplomb after a while, or at least it has with our other signings, & I don't think it's too much of a leap to suggest that Keita being injured meant that process was paused until he recovered & was able to get on the weights again.
I would not treat the stats above as gospel – it's a small sample and visually we can all see that Naby is not yet where he needs to be defensively. But it does show what type of player he CAN be for this team – one of the top pressers alongside Bobby and Ox (I would imagine Hendo is not far behind, especially if he doesn't have to play DM) in addition to his playmaking capabilities he demonstrated in the last game. We should be patient with his process of adjustment because he's definitely worth it.
I can't wait to see his on-ball productivity increase even further to match his off-ball performance figures!
It's super-exciting to see that press stat of 37.3 p90 and possession gain average of 8.3, but let's see how high he can go!
Just a sec, while I FUCKING NECK MYSELF
It's super-exciting to see that press stat of 37.3 p90 and possession gain average of 8.3, but let's see how high he can go!
Just a sec, while I FUCKING NECK MYSELF
You wouldn't prefer his press numbers to get over 38 p90?
A gain of 0.7 may seem small, but would have huge incremental gains across the field
Hey, numbers can be misleading – but pressing is important. It's the defining feature of Klopp's game; not some invented footie hipster concept – and these numbers simply show that Keita has everything to thrive in this style of football. Just like Firmino and Wijnaldum obviously did, despite also being inconsistent in their first seasons with Klopp.
God like power? I'm saying watching the whole game and assessing it from a different perspective than a highlight reel or a stat sheet, often gives you a more realistic view of someones performance. Lukaku is a brilliant finisher, but you can observe all the things he doesn't bring, like workmanship, interplay, movement outside the box, etc from actually watching him, watching full games, rather than highlights of him tapping the ball in for a team that's flying, for example. And that's where you just don't have any perspective and can't accept criticism, because you'll draw on whatever positive to try to deem any criticism as invalid and ultra negative. That's what gets my goat. Yes it's great that you're a red through and through and think this unshakable acceptance of poor displays is some form of superior fandom. When in actual fact it's just grating, superfan bullshit. He'll score a couple of goals and next you'll be making bold predictions about a 15 goal return next year.
IT'S NEVER FUCKING ENDING.
If ever proof were needed that Keita really is going to be a decent player, here it is. DB telling us how shit he is.
You're becoming as hyperbolic as Dreamy.
I didn't disagree with you on the different perspective at all, in fact I even said I agreed!
I'm not sure what the 'you just don't have any perspective and can't accept criticism, because you'll draw on whatever positive to try to deem any criticism as invalid and ultra negative' bit comes from TBH because when he's played shite I've agreed, or 'liked' other posts that have said so but pointed out what some bias posters ignored.
In this thread alone Post #48, Post #218 and I even quoted & agreed with Dreamy's post : "Surely the consensus is he’s been shite so far and a huge let down. He’s easily been our worst midfielder this season so far."
Even my match ratings don't match your comments : generally 5, 6, 6.5 or an 8 for the last one.
Other comments I've made :
He certainly seems a bit timid and lacking in confidence though.
I think Keita will come good and I was a strong proponent of signing him however he clearly needs more time and to get stuck in more.
Shaq., Keita, Sturridge all shite and hardly bothered their arses
I love Keita but he's not hitting BL form yet and that would be a gamble too far IMO (when someone included him in their starting team)
Keita will likely be kept out to lick his wounds opening up a spot on the left.
So yeah, clearly just a Superfan who can't accept criticism. *rolls eyes*.
The reality is that I greatly dislike unbalanced and biased criticism, 'bullying' in effect, and try to even it out, so my posts don't overtly agree with criticism but that doesn't mean I don't agree with some of it as I've shown above. And for the most part that is what he's been receiving because he hasn't met expectations.
One poster even ranted on about one flick that didn't find a man and led to a breakaway (no goal), whereas we've seen that many many times from Salah, Mane and Firmino with nary a word said (unless it's the inane 'they've earned it').
After the Leicester game (I gave him 6.5) the knives were out big time by many here, yet one of this boards popular ratings posts (Ben Johnson) gave him the equal third highest rating, a seven. And so on ...
There is a clear bias on this forum ... just look at the posts Rurik or Hansern made regarding some of Keita's match stats (not just this game) and they weren't even 'Liked' by any of those making anti-Keita posts. Imagine if those stats had been from a popular player, let's say Milner or Gini, they would have had an avalanche of likes and you know that's true. Whereas even when I don't agree with a poster or like a player I'll still 'Like' posts that highlight if they played well and the stats demonstrate that. I try to be fair.
And stop fantasising / inventing comments that no-one would make, even a 'superfan' like me, those merely reside in your head, not reality, so don't need to be verbalised.
Whether he becomes a decent player will never change the fact up until now he’s been shite.
Never mind the fact that we want something more then decent for what we paid.
See, if you were capable of criticising the guy in a fair and balanced way you'd have said "...will not change the fact" etc. What you actually said was "never" and that gives you away, because it betrays the fact that you've written him off once and for all, which is frankly ridiculous.
But he hasn't been complete shite has he?
In my opinion:
He's been shite (0-3/10) in some games:
West Ham (A) - 1st half
Wolves (A) - both FA cup and league
Chelsea (H) - league cup (I didn't watch the game, but the one highlight I saw of Hazard twisting him and Moreno inside out, so I'll guess he was shite)
Average or below (4-5/10) in some games:
Brighton (H)
City (H)
Leicester (H) - didn't watch this game, but reports wasn't glowing.
Just above "Average" (6-7/10) in some games;
Bournemouth (A)
Spurs (A)
West Ham (A) - 2nd half
Palace (A)
Palace (H)
United (H)
And very good (7.5-8/10) in a few:
West Ham (H)
Burnley (A)
Bournemouth (H)
Unbelievable games (8.5-10/10):
None. So far.
Now I know you argued about his status as a "young player", and I know you in football terms is now "16-21" ever since Rooney. But in life terms, anything under "25" in my opinion is young. Especially when you're coming into a new country, with a new language, don't have a family, no visible partner/GF, and you're playing for a big club. Of course, it's going to take a while to feel settled. Some players do it quicker than others. Some don't. Some never do.
But from what I've seen, there is talent in Keita that suggests he will make the right steps and improve us, much like the Ox did and much like Gini currently.
When you've been to pretty much every home game for the past 35 years you're not just watching the ball. I'm not saying it gives you great insight but you get a shitload more than from the TV. I posted a couple of weeks ago about counting Mo's touches and stuff, you're always looking out for who is doing what and why, and constantly looking for changes in shape etc. It's why I bang on about Shaq's defensive qualities when most people think he's just a forward. He does more tracking back than people seem to know, he's properly box to box and works like mad off the ball. Keita for most of the season has jogged around in little circles showing zero tactical nous or even looking arsed to win the ball back.
Hopefully he thought he could just turn up and boss everything, but he's finally got his head round the fact that he isn't that great and needs to work
Hopefully he thought he could just turn up and boss everything, but he's finally got his head round the fact that he isn't that great and needs to work
Hmm, would he be that cocksure? Coming into a Klopp team? He may have been cock of the walk at Leipzig or wherever, but his performances - and general demeanour - at Liverpool seem to be of someone crippled by self-doubt and shyness, rather than an arrogant "watch me, I'm the boss" type of Pogba-style bollocks.
Very similar to wee Joe Allen from what I've seen of him, which is not what I was expecting. Has a lovely weight of pass on him, small, weak, terrible finisher.
So he's now the Black Joe Allen.
There's a sentence I never wanted to write.
There's a sentence I never wanted to write.
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