Was winning the CL a bad thing?

[Dreambeliever]

Rafa has lived off the back of that for 5 years.

Lets not forget when Parry unveiled him he stated matter of factly that Rafa was brought in to challenge for the league straight away as he proved capable of doing this at Valencia.

It took him 5 years to finally mount a challenge past October, nevermind until May.

As it is now we are even further away from a title than we were under Ged. We are on the verge of losing out on the CL, possibly finishing outside the top 6 FFS(Villa and Spurs are capable of matching our run in with games against Utd and Chelsea to come) and some key players could leave in the summer and who could blame them.

If we look at Rafa's reign in the cold light of day in terms of the league. He's been a complete failure. Even this season with injuries and form of certain players aside he should have the ability to have guided us past such shit as Wigan and Portsmouth to name just 2.

Rafa has constantly flattered to deceive in the league and one great start in 5 years shouldn't hide the fact that he has failed in his primary task.

To win the league. Even the other cups have dried up. No cups in 4 years, 1 cup in 5 and that was a sodding Fa Cup.

If he hadn't have won the CL in his first season I think he may have been shown the door long before now. And at this rate his continued presence at the helm will only cause us to drift off into the abyss of a top 6 side fighting for the odd CL berth!

Has it kept in the job 5 seasons to long?

 

[spider-Neil]

you could argue the opposite, i.e it put unrealistic pressure on the team to better that achievement. okay there have been no cups in 4 years but in those four years we reached the CL (again) and just last season challenged for the league.

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39274.msg1068731#msg1068731 date=1268461713]
you could argue the opposite, i.e it put unrealistic pressure on the team to better that achievement. okay there have been no cups in 4 years but in those four years we reached the CL (again) and just last season challenged for the league.
[/quote]

We are LFC.

We exist to win the league or at least challenge most seasons and any manager that doesn't manage that walks.

Rafa was brought in for one reason. To win the league.

Nobody asked for it in season 1 or even 2. Nobody even asked for a challenge straight away.

But it took 5 years for one and then the after effect is us not even making the CL.

Rafa CL aside has been a complete and utter failure Spidey.

Unfair to expect a league title in season 2, yes but how about being close by season 6?

F*ck me we are going to finish 7th and some still don't blame Rafa. What gives? Have our fans settled for Spurs standards?

 

[Skullflower]

yeah, it was really bad.

 

[Ryan]

The worst thread title ever. Hands down.

 

[Skullflower]

http://www.hof.org.uk/images/cotw.png

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=39274.msg1068733#msg1068733 date=1268461996]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39274.msg1068731#msg1068731 date=1268461713]
you could argue the opposite, i.e it put unrealistic pressure on the team to better that achievement. okay there have been no cups in 4 years but in those four years we reached the CL (again) and just last season challenged for the league.
[/quote]

We are LFC.




[/quote]

its hard not to roll your eyes at that.
okay, 'we are LFC' and that means what exactly? does it give us an extra 5 points at the start of the season? does give a buy in the knock out stages of the CL?

all the league title and cups we've won count for nothing when a new season kicks off, history is just that history and we haven't won the league for nearly 20 years so what right have we to 'expect' much less DEMAND it?

 

[SaintGeorge67]

What an odd thread

 

[cobrastatus]

multiple_facepalm.jpg

 

[Farkmaster]

Holy fuck.

Yes, we've really been suffering under Benitez on the whole haven't we. Actually, no, we've been seen as genuine title challengers through to the end of a season, and we have been seen as a dominant force in European football.

Yes, it's all gone quite strange and awful recently, but Rafa has improved our club considerably.

The problem is that, for reasons wholly out of our control, and wholly unrelated to football, Rafa's football failures of late may well have far more dire consequences than they would have years ago.

 

[Terrier]

I think a big problem lies in the fact that the new generation of Liverpool supporters are used to mediocrity (from Souness to Benitez) that spans 20 years.

Most will be too young to remember or understand the utter stranglehold Liverpool FC had on both the international and domestic competitions. A time when finishing 2nd in the league was considered a disaster.

Aside from a few anomalies, the new gen have grown up in an endless sea of Scum victories - therefore a few cups and CL qualification is seen as 'acceptable.'

Standards have slipped and many of us (including me) still lust and compare with the glorious 80's.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=39274.msg1068733#msg1068733 date=1268461996]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39274.msg1068731#msg1068731 date=1268461713]
you could argue the opposite, i.e it put unrealistic pressure on the team to better that achievement. okay there have been no cups in 4 years but in those four years we reached the CL (again) and just last season challenged for the league.
[/quote]

We are LFC.

We exist to win the trophies or at least challenge most seasons and any manager that doesn't manage that walks.

[/quote]

I've changed a bit which then sort of answers your question Pat. How could it have been a bad thing? We could have not won it and we'd still have had the same number of years under Rafa.

 

[Farkmaster]

It's a reality that expectations for success have changed. What's the point of considering that the point of failure? It's just a sad fact, why wouldn't we feel differently?

It doesn't make me want the title any less.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Things have changed and it may not be realistic for us to demand the title. I'm sure nottingham forest fans don't expect to win the european cup every year.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Obviously I want to win the league by the way, but after 20 years we have no right to demand it any more than newcastle can call themselves a big club.

 

[Whitey85]

Winning a trophy is never a bad thing dreamy lad

 

[Spionkop69]

I know its wrong but....fuck off Pat!

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39274.msg1068740#msg1068740 date=1268463739]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=39274.msg1068733#msg1068733 date=1268461996]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39274.msg1068731#msg1068731 date=1268461713]
you could argue the opposite, i.e it put unrealistic pressure on the team to better that achievement. okay there have been no cups in 4 years but in those four years we reached the CL (again) and just last season challenged for the league.
[/quote]

We are LFC.




[/quote]

its hard not to roll your eyes at that.
okay, 'we are LFC' and that means what exactly? does it give us an extra 5 points at the start of the season? does give a buy in the knock out stages of the CL?

all the league title and cups we've won count for nothing when a new season kicks off, history is just that history and we haven't won the league for nearly 20 years so what right have we to 'expect' much less DEMAND it?
[/quote]

EXACTLY.

 

[Squiggles]

I think our fans should have high expectations and demand to be picking up silverware year after year.

But suggesting that winning a massive trophy was "bad" for this club is fucking ridiculous.

 

[Oncy]

Jesus Christ.

 

[Skullflower]

it deffo wasn't a good thing, that's for sure.

 

[peekay]

Just watch this once more DB
Istanbul 2005 - 'In My Life'

How can you say, even contemplate for 1/60th of a second, this was a bad thing. Hair still stands on their head.

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=peekay link=topic=39274.msg1068930#msg1068930 date=1268498165]
Just watch this once more DB
Istanbul 2005 - 'In My Life'

How can you say, even contemplate for 1/60th of a second, this was a bad thing. Hair still stands on their head.
[/quote]

^
x several million

 

[LarryHagman]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=39274.msg1068746#msg1068746 date=1268467165]
Holy fuck.

Yes, we've really been suffering under Benitez on the whole haven't we. Actually, no, we've been seen as genuine title challengers through to the end of a season, and we have been seen as a dominant force in European football.

Yes, it's all gone quite strange and awful recently, but Rafa has improved our club considerably.

The problem is that, for reasons wholly out of our control, and wholly unrelated to football, Rafa's football failures of late may well have far more dire consequences than they would have years ago.
[/quote]

This thread is obviously useless but, take away Torres signing, how has Benitez improved our club considerably?

 

[Halmeister]

I get what DB is trying to say, that possibly Benitez is still living off the success of Istanbul, and that has afforded him this and other bad seasons. But no, it's not a bad thing. It was the greatest night of my life so far to be honest.

 

[Squiggles]

He's been afforded time because that's what Liverpool do.

The suggestion that he's somehow taking it easy or living off past success goes against everything we know about the man.

In fact it couldn't be more wrong.

Not that this needs pointing out in a thread started by DreamBeliever.

 

[Halmeister]

Yeah I agree with you Squiggles, it's a bit of a nonesense post. I was just stating I could see where he was coming from.

 

[Judge Jules]

I don't think Squiggs' version *was* the suggestion though. I read the original post as asking whether too many allowances have been made for a poor overall record on Rafa's part because of that stunning initial success, which IMO is a legitimate question to ask.

That said, my answer would be "no". Our progress hasn't been good enough, but our record hasn't been so disastrous that one can write off the whole of Rafa's time in charge as a bad thing.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

A slightly different question, would you want to win the league this season if it meant being mid table and winning nothing for say the next 10 years?

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=39274.msg1068746#msg1068746 date=1268467165]
Holy fuck.

Yes, we've really been suffering under Benitez on the whole haven't we. Actually, no, we've been seen as genuine title challengers through to the end of a season, and we have been seen as a dominant force in European football.

Yes, it's all gone quite strange and awful recently, but Rafa has improved our club considerably.

The problem is that, for reasons wholly out of our control, and wholly unrelated to football, Rafa's football failures of late may well have far more dire consequences than they would have years ago.
[/quote]

Look at whichever way you like, but the bottom line is Rafa was brought in to win the league.
When he leaves we'll be further that ever.

That makes him a failure. The fact that we could actually finish 7th is sickening. And the fact that some fans blame anyone but the manager makes it even more disgusting.

F*cking Bolton just beat Wigan 4-0. We are the joke of the league right now.