VAR

[jon545660]

No, we're not in for Jamie Vardy.

Tonight's FA cup game (Brighton vs Crystal Palace) will be using VAR (Video Assistant Referee) for the first time in a club match in England (apparently it was used in the England vs Germany game last year, but the ref didn't actually need to call it into action).

It can only be used by the referee in 4 "match-changing" situations (goals, pen decisions, red cards, cases of mistaken identity).

VAR will also be used in both legs of the league Cup semi-final between Chelsea and Arsenal, and the final.

It's been used a lot in Germany and Italy this season. Has anyone seen it in action. Good, bad?

 

[Raz]

Not seen any games that it has been used but from what I have read it isn’t going down very well with anyone. Calls for it to be scrapped.

 

[Insignificance]

No, we're not in for Jamie Vardy.

Tonight's FA cup game (Brighton vs Crystal Palace) will be using VAR (Video Assistant Referee) for the first time in a club match in England (apparently it was used in the England vs Germany game last year, but the ref didn't actually need to call it into action).

It can only be used by the referee in 4 "match-changing" situations (goals, pen decisions, red cards, cases of mistaken identity).

VAR will also be used in both legs of the league Cup semi-final between Chelsea and Arsenal, and the final.

It's been used a lot in Germany and Italy this season. Has anyone seen it in action. Good, bad?

I saw it in Italy. I think it was Lazio awarded a penalty for handball against Inter. The ref first gave the penalty and then ran over to the touchline to watch the replay. My first thought was that it was no peno as the ball first hit his leg before it went straight to his hand giving the player no chance to to remove the hand or other way prevent the situation. After watching the VAR the ref concluded the same and dropped the ball instead.

 

[jon545660]

I think someone said in another thread that it's ok watching on tv as you get to see the replay that the ref does, but a bit shit if you're in the stadium.

 

[gkmacca]

It's the same as with most technology in these contexts - if it's taught and used properly, it should be good, but if it's poorly taught and badly used it will be a disaster. You see it in cricket - nowadays DRS is pretty effective, although some show no common sense by insisting on exhausting the process no matter how immediately obvious the decision should be. In football, I've always said that so much time gets wasted by refs dealing with protests, waving away the players, marching off to consult his assistant, etc etc, that a really professional video review ought, if anything to save time rather than waste it. But our refs and fourth officials etc are so damned dimwitted and incompetent I won't be surprised if they bollox it up.

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

I don't agree with bringing it in apart from maybe for offside decisions. If people can't agree afterwards about decisions I don't see how it's going to help as the marginal calls are fairly subjective anyway.

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

It also gives more time for players to influence the referee.

 

[Insignificance]

I don't agree with bringing it in apart from maybe for offside decisions. If people can't agree afterwards about decisions I don't see how it's going to help as the marginal calls are fairly subjective anyway.

I think linesmen surprisingly often get the offsides correct, even marginal ones.... then sometimes they miss them by a mile. Marginal offside calls are difficult also for VAR.

 

[gkmacca]

But technology like this depends on human decisions about when to use it and how to use it. If it's used appropriately there's no reason why it can't benefit the game. There will obviously be teething troubles, and some will immediately go berserk and condemn it, but it needs persevering with.

 

[Esoteric]

Will we see players using the universally accepted hand gesture for video replay along side invisible cards?

 

[Brizzle]

I'll be interested to see how it works in such a situation: player is flagged offside and ref whistles (but he's through on goal 1 on 1). If he stops, does it not count as a 'game defining' situation? If he continues on and puts it in the net, would that then mean it could count for VAR?

 

[Mystic]

Surely things like offside can easily be controlled by a hawkeye like system?

 

[tombrown]

I'll be interested to see how it works in such a situation: player is flagged offside and ref whistles (but he's through on goal 1 on 1). If he stops, does it not count as a 'game defining' situation? If he continues on and puts it in the net, would that then mean it could count for VAR?

Well according to OP offside is not in the list of four situation types:


It can only be used by the referee in 4 "match-changing" situations (goals, pen decisions, red cards, cases of mistaken identity).

 

[jon545660]

But if a goal is scored, the VAR can rule it out for offside.

 

[Brizzle]

In that example the player could put the ball in the net and technically it is a match changing situation? And what if the VAR agrees that it is onside, does the goal stand? In that scenario you would need defenders and GKs to stop playing to the whistle until the ball is dealt with?

 

[jon545660]

In that example the player could put the ball in the net and technically it is a match changing situation? And what if the VAR agrees that it is onside, does the goal stand? In that scenario you would need defenders and GKs to stop playing to the whistle until the ball is dealt with?

If the Ref has blown his whistle then it's not a goal.

 

[Frogfish]

Supposedly it worked well, and speedily, tonight. Brighton beat Palace 2-1.

 

[Insignificance]

One of the four things is goal. So you as a ref want to see a goal incident and ser two other incidents inside box in the video. What to do? We just move the argument from the moment to other moments... no from me.

 

[Zlate]

I’ve watched a fair bit of the Bundesliga and I love it. Yeah it stops the game and causes unrest in the crowd, but it gives you the correct decision. Nothing worse than losing a game due to a bad referee decision.
I can’t wait till they bring it to the EPL.

 

[dogboy]

It's shite and I hate it.

 

[Hyena]

Controversial moments are always going to stop the match anyway as the utd players crowd around the ref and educate him.

We might as well have a video to prove who's right.

 

[jon545660]

I wonder if the biggest advantage in using VAR is not the reviews that take place, but that players are far less likely to try to dive for a pen if they know if will be instantly reviewed, no pen given, and yc received.

Nothing makes me hate football more than seeing these cheating bellends throwing themselves to the floor with minimal or no contact in the box. If VAR can get rid of most of the diving then it’s worth doing for that alone.

 

[gkmacca]

Controversial moments are always going to stop the match anyway as the utd players crowd around the ref and educate him.

We might as well have a video to prove who's right.

Exactly. Whenever pundits oppose it, they paint a ludicrous picture of an idyllic free-flowing game that has no real connection with reality. Goal line technology has stopped lots of mini-riots on and off the pitch about whether or not the ball fully crossed the line, and VAR, if handled properly, could do the same for many other incidents.

 

[Frogfish]

I love VAR. Can't wait for it's total implementation. Look at the effect it's had on Tennis, Cricket and Rugby. There may be arguments about certain aspects but in general it's taken the doubt out of questionable or borderline calls and introduced (in most cases) absolute certainty instead.

 

[gkmacca]

I love VAR. Can't wait for it's total implementation. Look at the effect it's had on Tennis, Cricket and Rugby. There may be arguments about certain aspects but in general it's taken the doubt out of questionable or borderline calls and introduced (in most cases) absolute certainty instead.

I'm not sure about 'absolute certainty' in most cases.

In cricket there are many appeals that even after seemingly endless replays result merely in 'umpire's call,' and the camera positions make things like judging if a ball bounced just before a low catch is taken incredibly difficult.

I'd expect that something like offside in football will be similarly contentious, because again you're dealing with a high speed set of player movements and the cameras, many of them though there are, won't always be that reliable.

I think in all sports where I've seen versions of it used, it's worked best in fairly simple contexts where the 'action,' as such, has been very isolated and simple, such as a camera facing a batsman for LBW decisions, a camera looking down the line for in/out decisions in tennis, etc (I've not seen much rugby so I can't comment on that).

So unless football grounds accommodate even more cameras, I suspect that VAR will prove itself most useful for penalty area incidents, and some but not all incidents in the other key camera sector parts of the pitch. So I don't think debates and controversies will be at all eliminated by VAR, but I do think they'll be reduced, and the silly ones dismissed.

 

[FoxForceFive]

I think that just as big a step forward, maybe even more so, is being ignored.

Mic up the fucking referees. It'd mean players would either have to stop behaving like twats verbally & conduct themselves properly in most cases, or they'd potentially lose out on massive sponsorship deals, as well as getting bans cos the authorities would have to stomp down on players calling each other cunts when millions can hear it live on TV.

As well as making the likelihood of false accusations of racism etc much easier to sort out.

 

[juniormember]

I think that just as big a step forward, maybe even more so, is being ignored.

Mic up the fucking referees. It'd mean players would either have to stop behaving like twats verbally & conduct themselves properly in most cases, or they'd potentially lose out on massive sponsorship deals, as well as getting bans cos the authorities would have to stomp down on players calling each other cunts when millions can hear it live on TV.

As well as making the likelihood of false accusations of racism etc much easier to sort out.

I love the fact refs in rugby have mics and we can hear clearly what the ref’s saying, why he’s made his decision, what he’s warned a player about, etc.
We should 100% have that in football. And punish Rooney twice a week.

 

[FoxForceFive]

Yeah, when you can hear why & what a ref has said to a player it would often make much more sense I'm sure, than sitting there thinking every ref is a cunt who doesnt understand half the rules.

 

[juniormember]

It would also put pressure on the refs themselves to behave. Some of them love themselves too much.

 

[tombrown]

But rugby's shit, so the argument collapses