Trent’s new position

[rurikbird]

I need to rewatch the game, but at times it surely looked like a back 3 with Konate-Van Dijk-Robertson and Trent and Fabinho playing as double-pivot in midfield. It needs to be said that it worked really, really poorly in terms of build-up in the first half; the players were not sure where to look for each other and that resulted in us not being able to play through Arsenal’s press and settling for pumping it long - but surely that’s a problem of the execution, not the system. They only had a few days to work on this and if Klopp persists with this Zinchenko-inspired tweak, we will start reaping more benefits, hopefully.

I wonder if that’s partially the plan for next season. Whatever the reason was, Trent looked rejuvenated in the 2nd half.

 

[juniormember]

I need to rewatch the game, but at times it surely looked like a back 3 with Konate-Van Dijk-Robertson and Trent and Fabinho playing as double-pivot in midfield. It needs to be said that it worked really, really poorly in terms of build-up in the first half; the players were not sure where to look for each other and that resulted in us not being able to play through Arsenal’s press and settling for pumping it long - but surely that’s a problem of the execution, not the system. They only had a few days to work on this and if Klopp persists with this Zinchenko-inspired tweak, we will start reaping more benefits, hopefully.

I wonder if that’s partially the plan for next season. Whatever the reason was, Trent looked rejuvenated in the 2nd half.

I think Klopp basically said post-match that he wanted the double-pivot, players weren't used to it and therefore didn't work very well in the first half. But that it did start functioning well when they were more used to it in the second half. I think he said one of the issues was that Hendo kept bringing his marker into Salah's space, but in the second half he went inside more often which meant Salah only had one player to deal with (or give the ball away to. or evade that one guy and go running into three others inside to get dispossessed)
A hell of a game to start testing something new, but love the fact Klopp gave it a go.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

When have you seen a RB nutmeg an opposition's LB on the wing and cross the ball for an assist ?

That's not what RBs normally do. Unless you're Cafu but he's in a different planet altogether.

 

[MomoWASright]

He played that position loads of times towards the end of last season.

 

[Hansern]

I need to rewatch the game, but at times it surely looked like a back 3 with Konate-Van Dijk-Robertson and Trent and Fabinho playing as double-pivot in midfield. It needs to be said that it worked really, really poorly in terms of build-up in the first half; the players were not sure where to look for each other and that resulted in us not being able to play through Arsenal’s press and settling for pumping it long - but surely that’s a problem of the execution, not the system. They only had a few days to work on this and if Klopp persists with this Zinchenko-inspired tweak, we will start reaping more benefits, hopefully.

I wonder if that’s partially the plan for next season. Whatever the reason was, Trent looked rejuvenated in the 2nd half.

Trent looked rejuvenated after the Xhaka incident. Like the kick he needed to get going.
His second half was amazing although with the occasional defensive fuck up.

Surely Trent must be perfect in the Zinchenko/Stones role that Pep and Arteta use?

 

[tomasjj]

Is right wing-back/right back. He is more creative out wide.

 

[tomasjj]

He played that position loads of times towards the end of last season.

yep. and there is a bit of recency bias. poor there in the first half.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

He played that position loads of times towards the end of last season.

So play him in a RM or RWB role then.

Yesterday's match was the first time i've seen a cameo of Trent's devastating potential in midfield.

 

[juniormember]

He played that position loads of times towards the end of last season.

I always thought it was a half-hearted positioning/wondering around. We saw something more than that in this game.

 

[MomoWASright]

I always thought it was a half-hearted positioning/wondering around. We saw something more than that in this game.

I think he understood the role a bit better when playing it yesterday.

 

[MomoWASright]

So play him in a RM or RWB role then.

Yesterday's match was the first time i've seen a cameo of Trent's devastating potential in midfield.

He’s always been more a wing back rather than an orthodox right back. He looked great there because we managed to compress the game into their half. Which is what we used to do. More attacking and less defending from Trent is what we used to build success.

 

[Fabio]

I do think a lot of this season is down to the RCM and RW being unable to track back with any force. If it's elliott, he's a bit weak (but tenacious), if its hendo, it's lack of pace to get back. Salah just looks drained and not as bother to track back as much.

I hope we can resolve it this summer.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

If we have someone like Gini ghosting around covering the spaces Trent leaves behind, we’d be a much different team this season.

Some of Trent’s mid range passing in the 2nd half was very Gerrard-esque. Positive and forward.

Unlike that Gakpoo who kept playing it safe by passing backwards and sideways. Lack of balls.

 

[darkstarexodus]

I've been saying for the past two seasons that I don't like Trent cutting in and crossing from deep. We were at our deadliest when he overlapped Mo and Hendo shuffled over to cover. Notably, that's how he crossed for Bobby yesterday.

Without the overlap, far too many of his balls find Robbo as the target and, without the overlap, Mo is isolated against defenders and isn't effective enough at beating his man without space to run into or numerical superiority.

I'm open to Trent-in-Midfield, but still not keen on it being done from the right back position. Move him into the middle and play Gomez out right (and buy a new right back in the summer), if we want Trent in the middle.

 

[tomasjj]

I would like it if Trent stays out wide, but also do the inside runs between their fullbacks and centerbacks, as having switched it up with Hendo/Salah who are then out wide.
City and Arsenal do this, I remember Cancelo being boss at it, and it is so dangerous.
It also reduces the risk of losing the ball and increases the chance of finding a team mate, compared to regular crosses who often are too much hit and hope.

 

[rurikbird]

He played that position loads of times towards the end of last season.

I think it was different - towards the end of last season he was playing more inside in the final phase of the attack, making underlapping runs and pushing Salah wide. But yesterday it was in the build-up phase - he was clearly tucking in next to Fabinho and whenever the ball went in behind, it was Konate, not Trent’s, job to deal with it. And in the attacking phase Trent actually stayed wide, remember how he created the equalizer.

So it’s actually a subtle reverse of his role compared to last season.
Last season: in build-up Trent stays wide, in attack Trent cuts in
Yesterday: in build-up Trent tucks in next to Fabinho; in attack Trent takes space out wide.
(Not sure quite what he was supposed to do in the defensive phase - it looks like they themselves didn’t completely figure it out.)

Something like this:

——————-Alisson—————
—Konate——-van Dijk——Robbo
————Trent———Fabinho——

Once again, it didn’t work well at all in the first half; the 2nd goal partly resulted from the mix-up between Konate and Trent and the build-up was atrocious. But in the 2nd we created more clear-cut chances than in any game this season. I don’t think Klopp will abandon the experiment on this evidence.

 

[King Binny]

 

[rurikbird]

Jota’s average position is INSANE. A symptom of a build-up not working in this game.

 

[binomial]

If we’re so desperate to accommodate him then why not switch to 3 at the back? We still can play a high line with that set up, I know thats something Klopp’s obsessed about…good lord he only brings it up every time we concede that somewhere alone the way our back line wasnt high enough.

 

[beejay]

Really interesting posts, Binny - thanks. Helps to explain what we were watching yesterday, loads around us on the Kop berating TAA for being out of position while others shouting back that this is where he must have been instructed to play.

First half it didn't work because TAA was moving into midfield and no-one was covering behind. Second half, Konate was much more aggressive in that zone.

Moving forward, all the talk about Trent moving into midfield is missing the point. It's a new position that Man City and Arsenal have been playing all year and we have been working on from the start of last season. Perhaps even earlier but no-one noticed.

 

[Farkmaster]

Jota’s average position is INSANE. A symptom of a build-up not working in this game.

How can you have average positions when the averaged time isn't the same. By that I mean jota was defending for half the time he was on the pitch. Players who played the full 90 played for far more of the time that we were dominant. Plotting their positions relative to one another doesn't make sense.

 

[MaBigTip]

This is what I'd like to see based on our current personnel:
------------------------------Ali

Hendo------- Konate ------ VVD-----------Robbo

----------------------------Fabinho
---------------Trent------------------Thiago


-------------Gakpo
---------------------------------------------- Diaz
----------------------------Salah

With Nunez as backup for Diaz, Elliott for Gakpo and Bobby for Salah.

I'd then spend the summer budget on at least 1 midfielder, 1 defensive midfielder, 1 fullback and 1 right wide forward.

Hendo did great at CB, I think he can provide solidity and be able to add attacking impetus without having to push forward as far due to his range of passing and crossing. Worth a shot. I'd even try Kostas there before the end of the season, if necessary.

Trent needs to be able to shoot and create more from more varied positions and thats why I want him further forward... He can get a go in a front 4 if it becomes necessary too, imo.

Salah can still score goals... but he needs to be less involved in our build up. Nunez can't lead the line for us yet because of the offsides rule and low conversion rate, imo.

Klopp has nothing lose now as champions league football has been lost, hope he gets creative.

 

[bluebell]

This is what I'd like to see based on our current personnel:
------------------------------Ali

Hendo------- Konate ------ VVD-----------Robbo

----------------------------Fabinho
---------------Trent------------------Thiago


-------------Gakpo
---------------------------------------------- Diaz
----------------------------Salah

With Nunez as backup for Diaz, Elliott for Gakpo and Bobby for Salah.

I'd then spend the summer budget on at least 1 midfielder, 1 defensive midfielder, 1 fullback and 1 right wide forward.

Hendo did great at CB, I think he can provide solidity and be able to add attacking impetus without having to push forward as far due to his range of passing and crossing. Worth a shot. I'd even try Kostas there before the end of the season, if necessary.

Trent needs to be able to shoot and create more from more varied positions and thats why I want him further forward... He can get a go in a front 4 if it becomes necessary too, imo.

Salah can still score goals... but he needs to be less involved in our build up. Nunez can't lead the line for us yet because of the offsides rule and low conversion rate, imo.

Klopp has nothing lose now as champions league football has been lost, hope he gets creative.

Hendo at RB means no high line

 

[MomoWASright]

I think it was different - towards the end of last season he was playing more inside in the final phase of the attack, making underlapping runs and pushing Salah wide. But yesterday it was in the build-up phase - he was clearly tucking in next to Fabinho and whenever the ball went in behind, it was Konate, not Trent’s, job to deal with it. And in the attacking phase Trent actually stayed wide, remember how he created the equalizer.

So it’s actually a subtle reverse of his role compared to last season.
Last season: in build-up Trent stays wide, in attack Trent cuts in
Yesterday: in build-up Trent tucks in next to Fabinho; in attack Trent takes space out wide.
(Not sure quite what he was supposed to do in the defensive phase - it looks like they themselves didn’t completely figure it out.)

Something like this:

——————-Alisson—————
—Konate——-van Dijk——Robbo
————Trent———Fabinho——

Once again, it didn’t work well at all in the first half; the 2nd goal partly resulted from the mix-up between Konate and Trent and the build-up was atrocious. But in the 2nd we created more clear-cut chances than in any game this season. I don’t think Klopp will abandon the experiment on this evidence.

Yea. In my minds eye I remember him being tucked up with the centre mids. People losing their shit about his position. Another thing I’ve been banging on about (yet another thing) is how important big Ib is to Trent getting forward. As things started to click both grew in confidence and Konate’s pace/power shone through.

As you say, it looks like a tweaked variant of last year’s approaches.

 

[rurikbird]

Sometimes we all (myself included) forget how incredible of a talent Trent is. I dare anyone to find a highlight reel from any of the great attack-minded midfielders – Gerrard, Modric, Pirlo, whoever you like – that created clear more goal-scoring chances in basically one half of football than Trent did in this game. In such a big game too. When freed from doing things he doesn't like/cannot do he is a generational player, more than even Bellingham (potentially) Trent is the one we aught to build this team around for years to come. That's why any little tweak to his position is actually so monumentally important – because when he is right, he will drive this team forward.

 

[bluebell]

Sometimes we all (myself included) forget how incredible of a talent Trent is. I dare anyone to find a highlight reel from any of the great midfielders – Gerrard, Modric, Pirlo whoever you like – that created clear more goal-scoring chances in basically one half of football than Trent did in this game. When freed from doing things he doesn't like/cannot do he is a generational player, more than even the potential signing of Bellingham he should be considered someone we should build this team around. That's why any little tweak to his position is actually so monumentally important – because when he is right, he will drive this team forward.

I'm sure I can find you a highlight reel of all the brain farts his had in a game. There's no doubting he is a talent, but this game shouldn't paint over all the cracks we've seen. For once we actually saw he gave a damn, pulled his socks up and took control.
He is a creative force, and the question is why he plays at RB, and what's been his and most of the team's mental block?
I feared after the 7-0 thrashing of Man U complacency would sink in, and we struggled and lost against a poor Bournemouth. Now will they turn up against a free falling Leeds?

 

[MaBigTip]

Hendo at RB means no high line

He did it from CB, so he can do it from RB. He covers ground quicker then Trent and Milner so of course he could manage it.

 

[RedStar]

He did it from CB, so he can do it from RB. He covers ground quicker then Trent and Milner so of course he could manage it.

in 2019 maybe, he'd get absolutely rinsed doing it now. he can't cover the ground against an old cunt like Modric he's got no chance against wingers with pace to burn. We'd get massacred playing a high line with Hendo at RB

 

[Frogfish]

Sometimes we all (myself included) forget how incredible of a talent Trent is. I dare anyone to find a highlight reel from any of the great midfielders – Gerrard, Modric, Pirlo whoever you like – that created clear more goal-scoring chances in basically one half of football than Trent did in this game. When freed from doing things he doesn't like/cannot do he is a generational player, more than even the potential signing of Bellingham he should be considered someone we should build this team around. That's why any little tweak to his position is actually so monumentally important – because when he is right, he will drive this team forward.

How anyone can watch that and then say Trent isn't a midfielder is beyond me.

 

[Frogfish]

He did it from CB, so he can do it from RB. He covers ground quicker then Trent and Milner so of course he could manage it.

My 92 year old father covers ground faster than Hendo. You need more pace at full back than you do in midfield. It's why Milner is done and why Hendo should just stay where he is, as the elder statesman coming on for 20 mins to see a game out.