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They're not even that good

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[quote author=Terrier link=topic=39442.msg1074642#msg1074642 date=1269210703]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39442.msg1074580#msg1074580 date=1269206449]
[quote author=Terrier link=topic=39442.msg1074569#msg1074569 date=1269205591]
As I stated in another thread today, an astonishingly average side with a deep rooted, never say die attitude.

[/quote]

"Astonishingly average" is laughably hyperbolic
[/quote]

van Der cunt- average
rat face - relic on his last legs
park - would be average under any other manager
felcher - ditto
carrick - there are much better in his positon
nani - delivered fuck all in 4 years, despite Obvious talent


Comparing that with the team comprising of Keane giggs Scholes beckham and even butt would be laughable.



[/quote]

I'm sorry but Fletcher has been one of the players of the season anyone who doesn't see that either doesn't watch Utd or hates them or both.

He will be team of the year and rightly so.
 
Utd are a good team, team being the word. Like LFC fans are prone to, many play the game on paper too much comparing individual players. As the cliche goes, Sport ain’t like that. Utd have a good system, the right players to fill it and play with a good mentality. Come two months time, they may have won 4 Prems and been in 3 CL finals on the bounce yet ask most LFC fans & they’ll tell you that we’d have just as many players in a combined 1-11.

Nope.
 
United haven't had a true DM since Roy Keane left, so you have to wonder who does all the good work which keeps them winning titles.

Carrick does his fair share and has improved in that respect, but Fletcher is the main man and is crucial to their game. He also contributes well in an attacking sense.

I never thought he'd flourish like he has, but there we are
 
Thing is though, the midfielders from Chelsea, Man U & Arsenal are capable, all round players. We are the only ones obsessed with DMs who do nothing but defend, contributing nothing going forward. And, amazingly, we play two of them. Fletcher, Carrick, Scholes, Essien, Ballack, Song, Diaby, Fabregas, Denilson etc. The all defend and they all get forward. Ours defend.
Benitez would never consider for one second playing a Denilson or even a Scholes in centre mid, he just wouldn't.
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=39442.msg1074722#msg1074722 date=1269228145]
[quote author=Terrier link=topic=39442.msg1074642#msg1074642 date=1269210703]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39442.msg1074580#msg1074580 date=1269206449]
[quote author=Terrier link=topic=39442.msg1074569#msg1074569 date=1269205591]
As I stated in another thread today, an astonishingly average side with a deep rooted, never say die attitude.

[/quote]

"Astonishingly average" is laughably hyperbolic
[/quote]

van Der cunt- average
rat face - relic on his last legs
park - would be average under any other manager
felcher - ditto
carrick - there are much better in his positon
nani - delivered fuck all in 4 years, despite Obvious talent


Comparing that with the team comprising of Keane giggs Scholes beckham and even butt would be laughable.



[/quote]

I'm sorry but Fletcher has been one of the players of the season anyone who doesn't see that either doesn't watch Utd or hates them or both.

He will be team of the year and rightly so.
[/quote]

steady on.

There's no doubt Felcher has been a great player this season (and much of last), but suggesting that he would be "as good" for another team is highly doubtful. It's again a case of players punching above their weight for their manager.

Someone correctly pointed out that Scum have a system and they plug in players to match it. That's how for many years they've managed to field relatively weakened teams yet still romped the oppositon.
 
Ferguson has certainly gotten more out of Fletcher than anyone would have expected. I rated Fletcher (and even liked him. Well, more than one would normally like a Scum player) when he was in their reserves and only making sporadic appearances but didn't expect him to blossom into one of the top three or four all-around midfielders in the Prem. Anyone who doesn't rate him now is blinkered. He's one of the keys to their success this year and, to a lesser degree, last.

As for the comment regarding there being many better in Carrick's position: who? Xabi was. He isn't here anymore. I'm struggling to come up with more. Certainly he's benefitting from the players and system around him but he is flourishing in the role.

I don't like being in the position to defend United's players but to deny their abilities is foolish.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39442.msg1074580#msg1074580 date=1269206449]
[quote author=Terrier link=topic=39442.msg1074569#msg1074569 date=1269205591]
As I stated in another thread today, an astonishingly average side with a deep rooted, never say die attitude.

[/quote]

"Astonishingly average" is laughably hyperbolic
[/quote]

And asininely alliterative.
 
Possibly, but that team would have been massacred had it faced the 1993 Cantona squad;so Terrier has a point.

We've just become more shit.
 
I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. But they don't need to be best team of all time, they just need to be better than the other teams put in front of them. And, very unfortunately, the current squad is still probably the best in England and one of the best in Europe. God help me if they manage the treble this year...

(Damn, Ross and Oncey got me depressed in the other thread...)
 
You're absolutelylright. This is what I was talking about in my thread - saying the loss yesterday wasn't necessary.

A more adventurous team selection - ie Aquilani for Lucas, Babel for Kuyt - and we would have had more confidence and creativity in the final third. It's his lack of balls that cost us.

Even if he'd made the CM switch just after half time, when I called it on the match thread.

We made the decision to continue not creating anything, and Utd grew in confidence and made us pay ten minutes later.

We're a bwtter side than them, squad-wise, on paper. but even when everyone is fit, we play too many of our slow, talentless players.

Lucas and Kuyt, primarily, are the problem.
 
They're not a great side in terms of flair or big personalities but they are relentless and have the sheer will to win mentality instilled in them which means they can consistently just get across the line.

No better example than last year when they came back against Villa at OT and effectively won the league that day.

They never say die, we used to have it; we don't now.
 
[quote author=Terrier link=topic=39442.msg1074744#msg1074744 date=1269232745]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=39442.msg1074722#msg1074722 date=1269228145]
[quote author=Terrier link=topic=39442.msg1074642#msg1074642 date=1269210703]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39442.msg1074580#msg1074580 date=1269206449]
[quote author=Terrier link=topic=39442.msg1074569#msg1074569 date=1269205591]
As I stated in another thread today, an astonishingly average side with a deep rooted, never say die attitude.

[/quote]

"Astonishingly average" is laughably hyperbolic
[/quote]

van Der cunt- average
rat face - relic on his last legs
park - would be average under any other manager
felcher - ditto
carrick - there are much better in his positon
nani - delivered fuck all in 4 years, despite Obvious talent


Comparing that with the team comprising of Keane giggs Scholes beckham and even butt would be laughable.



[/quote]

I'm sorry but Fletcher has been one of the players of the season anyone who doesn't see that either doesn't watch Utd or hates them or both.

He will be team of the year and rightly so.
[/quote]

steady on.

There's no doubt Felcher has been a great player this season (and much of last), but suggesting that he would be "as good" for another team is highly doubtful. It's again a case of players punching above their weight for their manager.

Someone correctly pointed out that Scum have a system and they plug in players to match it. That's how for many years they've managed to field relatively weakened teams yet still romped the oppositon.


[/quote]

If a player consistently punches above their weight then maybe you have misjudged their weight.

I think they do the opposite to what you are saying. Red nose adapts their style and shape to get the best out of the players they have rather than sticking to a set formation.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39442.msg1074731#msg1074731 date=1269231363]
United haven't had a true DM since Roy Keane left, so you have to wonder who does all the good work which keeps them winning titles.

Carrick does his fair share and has improved in that respect, but Fletcher is the main man and is crucial to their game. He also contributes well in an attacking sense.

I never thought he'd flourish like he has, but there we are
[/quote]

Yup.

Carrick got caught out by Gerrard a couple of times in the first five mins, the second time being the goal. Immediately after that Fergie got Fletcher to play deeper and that was pretty much it for us.
 
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=39442.msg1074857#msg1074857 date=1269254477]
If you're not attacking, you're defending.

We don't attack.
[/quote]

the annoying thing is we've shown when the shackles are released (or when we have nothing to lose, whatever way you want to look at it) we CAN attack.
 
I think we underestimate them a little, actually.

I can sort of understand Bunny's original post in terms of this years team. The last couple of years, however, with Ronaldo and Rooney combining, they've played some of the best attacking football we've seen in decades.

This year it's been a different story - the unplayable attacking pace is gone. But, to be fair, I think they've got by far the best and most balanced back four. Rio and Vidic are arguably the most reliable CB pairing as well as having the attacking potency that few others can muster. Add Evra into that mix and you've got a tremendous back line with real attacking ability.

The midfield - I agree with Bunny. They work really hard - and Fletcher is under rated - but they're not special. They don't have to be either - they just serve to keep the ball moving and clog up the oppositions attack. They know they can count on that backline behind them and a near unplayable striker/AM up front.

Maybe we're expecting Barca - that's not what Ferguson has created. I think Barca would beat them but it would take that sort of brilliance across the park to beat them IMO.
 
I don't disagree with any of that Wiz. I think they're a very good team, just nothing like as good as their current standing in the game would indicate. As someone mentioned earlier, at one point in the late 90s they had a midfield of Beckham-Scholes-Butt-Giggs all in their prime, not to mention Cole, Sheringham, Yorke and Solskjaer to choose from up front. I don't care what anyone says about the game changing and all teams needing more defensive midfielders - that team would have beaten this season's United easily. They've declined, by any standards: unfortunately, so has the rest of the English league (and European teams generally).
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39442.msg1075011#msg1075011 date=1269268199]
I don't disagree with any of that Wiz. I think they're a very good team, just nothing like as good as their current standing in the game would indicate. As someone mentioned earlier, at one point in the late 90s they had a midfield of Beckham-Scholes-Butt-Giggs all in their prime, not to mention Cole, Sheringham, Yorke and Solskjaer to choose from up front. I don't care what anyone says about the game changing and all teams needing more defensive midfielders - that team would have beaten this season's United easily. They've declined, by any standards: unfortunately, so has the rest of the English league (and European teams generally).

[/quote]

So everyone's got worse?
 
Utd play with two fast, talented wingers. we play with Maxi and Kuyt and that is the problem. we lack pace and movement in those area's and until we acquire it or develop it ourselves we will come unstuck.

Johnson was shocking yesterday when he's supposedly meant to support our attack he hardly did anything.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39442.msg1075026#msg1075026 date=1269269318]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39442.msg1075011#msg1075011 date=1269268199]
I don't disagree with any of that Wiz. I think they're a very good team, just nothing like as good as their current standing in the game would indicate. As someone mentioned earlier, at one point in the late 90s they had a midfield of Beckham-Scholes-Butt-Giggs all in their prime, not to mention Cole, Sheringham, Yorke and Solskjaer to choose from up front. I don't care what anyone says about the game changing and all teams needing more defensive midfielders - that team would have beaten this season's United easily. They've declined, by any standards: unfortunately, so has the rest of the English league (and European teams generally).

[/quote]

So everyone's got worse?
[/quote]

Apart from Barca and maybe Inter, I'd say all the top clubs are flawed in some obvious way (too-fast turnover of managers; too many ageing players; too many inexperienced players; shit owners/manager, etc). United, though far from brilliant, don't have those obvious flaws, which is why they keep on fucking winning all the time. That's how I see it anyway.
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=39442.msg1075048#msg1075048 date=1269270582]
Utd play with two fast, talented wingers. we play with Maxi and Kuyt and that is the problem. we lack pace and movement in those area's and until we acquire it or develop it ourselves we will come unstuck.

Johnson was shocking yesterday when he's supposedly meant to support our attack he hardly did anything.

[/quote]

And cross to who exactly?

By the time he finally gets the ball, they've got 9 men in the box.

It's not his fault for that, it's fucking negative tactics.
 
This thread makes me laugh then cry, Utd on the verge of 3 CL finals in 3 years and 4 Pl in a row yet they are not a great team.

Christ we can't win the thing once and people claim its so hard to win.

They are a fantastic team with an incredible manager and outside of Barca they play the best football around.

It's horrible to say it but its true. And its exactly why Rafa has to leave.

We will never compete with that as long as he is here.
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=39442.msg1075201#msg1075201 date=1269292707]
This thread makes me laugh then cry, Utd on the verge of 3 CL finals in 3 years and 4 Pl in a row yet they are not a great team.

Christ we can't win the thing once and people claim its so hard to win.

They are a fantastic team with an incredible manager and outside of Barca they play the best football around.

It's horrible to say it but its true. And its exactly why Rafa has to leave.

We will never compete with that as long as he is here.
[/quote]

That is complete and utter shite, they play the best football around my arse. Arsenal play better football than them.

United grind out results at the right time, play with great intelligence and have a massive amount of experience but they hardly play teams off the park with free flowing football like they did a year or two ago.
 
[quote author=franklyfrank link=topic=39442.msg1075215#msg1075215 date=1269295699]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=39442.msg1075201#msg1075201 date=1269292707]
This thread makes me laugh then cry, Utd on the verge of 3 CL finals in 3 years and 4 Pl in a row yet they are not a great team.

Christ we can't win the thing once and people claim its so hard to win.

They are a fantastic team with an incredible manager and outside of Barca they play the best football around.

It's horrible to say it but its true. And its exactly why Rafa has to leave.

We will never compete with that as long as he is here.
[/quote]

That is complete and utter shite, they play the best football around my arse. Arsenal play better football than them.

United grind out results at the right time, play with great intelligence and have a massive amount of experience but they hardly play teams off the park with free flowing football like they did a year or two ago.
[/quote]

I am loathe to say this for fear of being labelled a United supporter but they do still play some decent stuff. Certainly nowhere near as attractive as Arsenal but they have a pretty good compromise between fast-paced movement and game-winning effectiveness. *rinses mouth with soap*

God I hope Arsenal overtake them.
 
[quote author=franklyfrank link=topic=39442.msg1074588#msg1074588 date=1269206773]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=39442.msg1074582#msg1074582 date=1269206544]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=39442.msg1074576#msg1074576 date=1269206138]
I f*cking the lot of them, credit Utd they always play good football and every player can pass the ball and has a nice touch.

No doubt Rooney being almost unplayable this season has helped enormously, but that doesn't take away from the fact they have been the most consistent footballing side in Britian for 20 years. The almosts play the ball on the deck and most teams can handle it.

I was disgusted with the number of needless hoofing we did last night.

Watching Torres up top was akin to watching a 10 year play pro evo, get the ball to him and try and beat the Utd back line on his own.

Gerrard was awful yet again.
[/quote]

Are you Kanwar?
[/quote]

Gerrard put in a cunts performance, dress it up whatever way you like. He was fucking weak, half-hearted and fucking shite.

He's been a disgraceful captain of Liverpool Football Club this season.
[/quote]

You've been on Gerrard's back since before this season you tool.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39442.msg1075315#msg1075315 date=1269334499]
Dreambeliever misses the point shocka.
[/quote]

Your post was fine, but when others agreed it was cringe time.

You were just blowing off steam.
 
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=39442.msg1075992#msg1075992 date=1269461524]
[quote author=franklyfrank link=topic=39442.msg1074588#msg1074588 date=1269206773]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=39442.msg1074582#msg1074582 date=1269206544]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=39442.msg1074576#msg1074576 date=1269206138]
I f*cking the lot of them, credit Utd they always play good football and every player can pass the ball and has a nice touch.

No doubt Rooney being almost unplayable this season has helped enormously, but that doesn't take away from the fact they have been the most consistent footballing side in Britian for 20 years. The almosts play the ball on the deck and most teams can handle it.

I was disgusted with the number of needless hoofing we did last night.

Watching Torres up top was akin to watching a 10 year play pro evo, get the ball to him and try and beat the Utd back line on his own.

Gerrard was awful yet again.
[/quote]

Are you Kanwar?
[/quote]

Gerrard put in a cunts performance, dress it up whatever way you like. He was fucking weak, half-hearted and fucking shite.

He's been a disgraceful captain of Liverpool Football Club this season.
[/quote]

You've been on Gerrard's back since before this season you tool.
[/quote]

No I haven't and don't call me a tool for no f*cking reason.
 
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