• You may have to login or register before you can post and view our exclusive members only forums.
    To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

There is no point...

Forums Unread posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
keniget

keniget

6CM Addict
Administrator
... ranting and raving. Or is it just me that feels like that?

It's gotten to the point - as Sheik said in the GC - where it's all been said before. We all know that Lucas can't boss the midfield as Xabi could, we all know that Rafa has made mistakes in the transfer market, that he makes off subs, that when Gerrard and Torres are out, we quite often find ourselves in the shit. Again, is it just me that's tired of it all?

What's the point in going on about how N'Gog, a young player with a handful of starts to his name at Liverpool, is fucking garbage or how Insua, another young player who is only really starting his career as a proper first teamer now, is a waste of space.

Some players can be thrown in at the deep end, some can't - it doesn't necessarily mean they're shit and that's that. Ultimately youngsters and squad players are there to slot into a functioning team of proper first teamers. Let's not forget that this wasn't the Carling Cup tonight - not that you'd be able to tell from looking at our starting line up - it was the Champions League against a very good and expensively assembled Lyon side.

The bottom line is that the team we put out tonight just wasn't particularly good, not of the standard we demand or have grown accustomed to and not representative of the quality of our first team. I don't miss Sissoko. I don't miss Finnan. I don't miss Warnock. I don't miss any of the players whose time it was to go. If we assembled a team out of lot, it'd be average as fuck and lose games too. We're missing proper first teamers who can hold onto the ball, that's what we're missing.

With all that in mind, I didn't think it was all that bad tonight. We kept up appearances for the most part. At least it was Lyon and not fucking Sunderland.

It's clear that this season is shaping up to be a write off, so fuck it, might as well just brace ourselves and if there is something to cheer about at the end of it, it'll be a nice surprise.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36570.msg967355#msg967355 date=1256082277]
... ranting and raving. Or is it just me that feels like that?

It's gotten to the point - as Sheik said in the GC - where it's all been said before. We all know that Lucas can't boss the midfield as Xabi could, we all know that Rafa has made mistakes in the transfer market, that he makes off subs, that when Gerrard and Torres are out, we quite often find ourselves in the shit. Again, is it just me that's tired of it all?

What's the point in going on about how N'Gog, a young player with a handful of starts to his name at Liverpool, is fucking garbage or how Insua, another young player who is only really starting his career as a proper first teamer now, is a waste of space.

Some players can be thrown in at the deep end, some can't - it doesn't necessarily mean they're shit and that's that. Ultimately youngsters and squad players are there to slot into a functioning team of proper first teamers. Let's not forget that this wasn't the Carling Cup tonight - not that you'd be able to tell from looking at our starting line up - it was the Champions League against a very good and expensively assembled Lyon side.

The bottom line is that the team we put out tonight just wasn't particularly good, not of the standard we demand or have grown accustomed to and not representative of the quality of our first team. I don't miss Sissoko. I don't miss Finnan. I don't miss Warnock. I don't miss any of the players whose time it was to go. If we assembled a team out of lot, it'd be average as fuck and lose games too. We're missing proper first teamers who can hold onto the ball, that's what we're missing.

With all that in mind, I didn't think it was all that bad tonight. We kept up appearances for the most part. At least it was Lyon and not fucking Sunderland.

It's clear that this season is shaping up to be a write off, so fuck it, might as well just brace ourselves and if there is something to cheer about at the end of it, it'll be a nice surprise.
[/quote]

Of course you're right, it's what most of us witha degree of objectivity have been preaching. It was the same last season during our 'spell' too.

I don't agree with the emboldened bit though. We're still in everything, and we've shown time and agin that we're capable of turning things around.
 
I don't know. Maybe I'm just feeling a bit fed up with it all in general.

I don't go to Anfield as often as I should considering I don't live far away, but fuck it, you can count the number of games I've missed in the last few years on one hand. On Saturday I turned the game off towards end. That last 15mins of excruciating frustration is always the worst and I was like, ya'know what, I don't want to be miserable for the rest of the evening - if I just leave it now, it won't be so bad.

Yeah fuck you all, I'm a shit supporter, but that's kinda how I'm feeling about the season as a whole. It all just seems a bit wrong. There doesn't really seem to be much balance in the squad and the dynamic we've had in the last couple seasons just doesn't seem to be there. The defence is fucked, the midfield isn't functioning and no-one seems to be able to help each other.

Now this is obviously come across as incredibly defeatist and negative... however as said above, I don't think the players individually are as bad as is being made out and (as always) a couple of decent additions would make the squad look a lot healthier, but the state of the team right now worries me and I think raised expectations should be avoided like the plague.
 
I'm sure you're not alone in your resignation Ken.

Peronsally, I'd be worried if we were losing games with no excuses. As it is, we're missing our best players, goals are going in off beach balls, and we're conceding injury time winners when last season we were the ones scoring them. It happens.

When we get our best players back, we'll improve dramatically. We're not a bad team all of a sudden.
 
Its funny because thats exactly what it feels like - that it has all gone wrong over night. Anyways, I have no doubt we will see better times when the big boys return... we will win some games, some of the squaddies might not be so shit after all and in the cup competitions who knows, anything can happen. The league though, I dont know. I think we have shown a few too many weaknesses and as we saw last year, its hard enough at the best of times.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36570.msg967374#msg967374 date=1256084575]
Its funny because thats exactly what it feels like - that it has all gone wrong over night. Anyways, I have no doubt we will see better times when the big boys return... we will win some games, some of the squaddies might not be so shit after all and in the cup competitions who knows, anything can happen. The league though, I dont know. I think we have shown a few too many weaknesses and as we saw last year, its hard enough at the best of times.
[/quote]

Rafa's point the other day that it's "ok to blood younsgters one at a time" but you run into difficulties when there are 3 or 4 of them on the pitch togethor was a really valid one. Ferguson's great at introducing kids one at a time, it takes the pressure off, and even if they are shite - there's enough quality around them to compensate.

Tonight for the most part 3/4 of our time was made up of kids, and squad players - all of whom need better players around them to bring their game on, because they're not good enough individually. Take N'gog; he's capable of getting a tap-in, doing something unexpectedly decent, or being in the right place, but to actually rely on him, to expect him to creat something is tough. He's not at that level, he's playing against quality opposition, and he has next to fuck all experience. The likes of him will improve when he's played in spurts, and alonsgide players who can afford to carry him when required.

Gerrard, Torres, Johnson, Aquilani - That's three 20M players, and the world's best in Gerrard. We rely on them.
 
I have always been a supporter of Benitez I feel he has been good for the club, but this season is such a big let down it hard to take.

Im trying not to be knee jerk, I try to think about the good times.

But we need to win something soon.
 
Rafa didn't sign all those players to play pivotal roles in the team and the line up shows quite a few young players who unfortunately are inconsistant or not good enough over 90 mins

couple that with players coming back from injury like Agger and the injuries we have, though at one point Aurellio looked his old self. Then you have players who dont want to be here and whose heads are dropping or willfully underperforming.

Sadly I dont see it getting better even with the big players coming back if they indeed do, at some point they will need games and may look shit and bring us further inconsistency, the media will have a field day, confidence will be further tested and the booing starts because some group have paid 300 euro's each and the team isnt 100%

I can only hope Benitez sticks through it and doesn't walk out but he must be close by now and the media are going to be after him for weeks and months.
 
The media doesn't get to Benitez.

He usually shrugs off media criticism with a smile and plays a straight bat. If he walks, it's because the owners will make his position untenable.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36570.msg967374#msg967374 date=1256084575]
Its funny because thats exactly what it feels like - that it has all gone wrong over night.
[/quote]

Yeah, exactly. At the end of last season we were destroying the best teams in Europe - and doing it with style. We've even looked devastating going forward at odd times this season (albeit against fairly ordinary teams). I think our sudden vulnerability is down primarily to two things: the loss of Xabi (who was better defensively than he was ever given credit for) and Carragher's form, which has slumped so dramatically it's hard to believe he's the same player. If I could choose to make ONE cheap January signing, it would be Sami Hyypia.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36570.msg967480#msg967480 date=1256109945]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36570.msg967374#msg967374 date=1256084575]
Its funny because thats exactly what it feels like - that it has all gone wrong over night.
[/quote]

Yeah, exactly. At the end of last season we were destroying the best teams in Europe - and doing it with style. We've even looked devastating going forward at odd times this season (albeit against fairly ordinary teams). I think our sudden vulnerability is down primarily to two things: the loss of Xabi (who was better defensively than he was ever given credit for) and Carragher's form, which has slumped so dramatically it's hard to believe he's the same player. If I could choose to make ONE cheap January signing, it would be Sami Hyypia.

[/quote]

Maybe we should buy Didi Hamann a new pair of boots and stick him right in there.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36570.msg967370#msg967370 date=1256083624]
I'm sure you're not alone in your resignation Ken.

Peronsally, I'd be worried if we were losing games with no excuses. As it is, we're missing our best players, goals are going in off beach balls, and we're conceding injury time winners when last season we were the ones scoring them. It happens.

When we get our best players back, we'll improve dramatically. We're not a bad team all of a sudden.
[/quote]

Couldn't have put it better.
 
[quote author=themn link=topic=36570.msg967499#msg967499 date=1256112916]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36570.msg967370#msg967370 date=1256083624]
I'm sure you're not alone in your resignation Ken.

Peronsally, I'd be worried if we were losing games with no excuses. As it is, we're missing our best players, goals are going in off beach balls, and we're conceding injury time winners when last season we were the ones scoring them. It happens.

When we get our best players back, we'll improve dramatically. We're not a bad team all of a sudden.
[/quote]

Couldn't have put it better.
[/quote]
Good post Ryan.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36570.msg967366#msg967366 date=1256083371]
I don't know. Maybe I'm just feeling a bit fed up with it all in general.

I don't go to Anfield as often as I should considering I don't live far away, but fuck it, you can count the number of games I've missed in the last few years on one hand. On Saturday I turned the game off towards end. That last 15mins of excruciating frustration is always the worst and I was like, ya'know what, I don't want to be miserable for the rest of the evening - if I just leave it now, it won't be so bad.

Yeah fuck you all, I'm a shit supporter, but that's kinda how I'm feeling about the season as a whole. It all just seems a bit wrong. There doesn't really seem to be much balance in the squad and the dynamic we've had in the last couple seasons just doesn't seem to be there. The defence is fucked, the midfield isn't functioning and no-one seems to be able to help each other.

Now this is obviously come across as incredibly defeatist and negative... however as said above, I don't think the players individually are as bad as is being made out and (as always) a couple of decent additions would make the squad look a lot healthier, but the state of the team right now worries me and I think raised expectations should be avoided like the plague.
[/quote]

Word for word how I feel, at the moment I just can't see the point. It's not just about the defeats its the air around the club before a ball was kicked
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36570.msg967408#msg967408 date=1256090220]
The media doesn't get to Benitez.

He usually shrugs off media criticism with a smile and plays a straight bat. If he walks, it's because the owners will make his position untenable.
[/quote]

Funny enough last night whilst being interviewed Rafa looked fairly shaken as though things are beginning to get to him.
 
[quote author=Asim link=topic=36570.msg967581#msg967581 date=1256118238]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36570.msg967366#msg967366 date=1256083371]
I don't know. Maybe I'm just feeling a bit fed up with it all in general.

I don't go to Anfield as often as I should considering I don't live far away, but fuck it, you can count the number of games I've missed in the last few years on one hand. On Saturday I turned the game off towards end. That last 15mins of excruciating frustration is always the worst and I was like, ya'know what, I don't want to be miserable for the rest of the evening - if I just leave it now, it won't be so bad.

Yeah fuck you all, I'm a shit supporter, but that's kinda how I'm feeling about the season as a whole. It all just seems a bit wrong. There doesn't really seem to be much balance in the squad and the dynamic we've had in the last couple seasons just doesn't seem to be there. The defence is fucked, the midfield isn't functioning and no-one seems to be able to help each other.

Now this is obviously come across as incredibly defeatist and negative... however as said above, I don't think the players individually are as bad as is being made out and (as always) a couple of decent additions would make the squad look a lot healthier, but the state of the team right now worries me and I think raised expectations should be avoided like the plague.
[/quote]

Word for word how I feel, at the moment I just can't see the point. It's not just about the defeats its the air around the club before a ball was kicked
[/quote]

This pretty much sums up how I feel at the moment, and for me it probably stems from our owners.

I'm fairly sure that if Rafa was given loads of cash with no restrictions sooner or later he would pull in a title or two - after all we were only beaten last season by a team that notched 90 points, which is a pretty rare tally.

Rafa ain't perfect, and he doesn't seem built to be the kind of manager who can succeed with financial limitations, but really I don't see what any other manager would do differently at present. Fact is, in order to build a high-quality first eleven, we have had to systematically weaken our squad over the last few years. The likes of Bellamy, Crouch, Keane may not be world beaters but they are all players that a club such as Chelsea, United and now City would simply keep on their books because there was no pressing need to sell.

The sale of Alonso was not just a blow in terms of the departure of a quality player, but also a blow to morale: that £30m bounty that we all expected to be spent on new additions, that was meant to be the boost for the new season but it never materialised.

The impression our owners give is that they don't really give a fuck about the club, the fans or the future - if that can transmit itself to the fans (which it has in my case) surely it will also register with the players. At the moment they all look like they know their efforts will ultimately be fruitless, and the resulting slump is alarming.

It was absolutely obvious last year that we winged it a little: Chelsea and arguably Arsenal always had stronger squads. We clearly needed to build on the platform that last season's performance gave us, but instead of heavy investment at the right time we did pretty much nothing.

Depressing indeed.

I actually remained very confident at the start of the season, but in hindsight I was being blinded by what is without question a quality first team. Injuries and suspensions were alwas going to take their toll, and our backup is a laughing stock. I suppose blame should be shared around for the disaster that this season has been thus far - our owners are hopeless, some players are showing a real lack of either form or character (up to and including the Captain) and lets not forget that for all his financial limitations, rafa still has the likes of an £8m left back knocking around the place somewhere: some of his buys have been hideous and will most like turn out to be players that (a la Houllier) we simply can't get rid of for anything more than peanuts.

It's hard to remain positive when so much of the club seems rotten. It appears our playing staff agrees.
 
I didnt think we were that shit last night at all really, conceding two late goals is always always a cunt of a result but the effort was certainly there last night and some of the performances were not so bad.

tbh i thought we deserved a point at least but ...

Some nice flashes of skill from Ngog, kelly played pretty well for a kid, Aurellio improved from saturday...

Im Still waiting for a performance from Lucas but i suspect it will never come now.

4 defeats in a row does suck no doubt about that personally for me it wouldnt have been a crime if we had of drawn 3 of those, Chelsea Sunderland and Lyon.

Time to suck it in and chin up for them manc bastards i reckon... its too late to worry now...
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36570.msg967380#msg967380 date=1256085028]
Rafa's point the other day that it's "ok to blood younsgters one at a time" but you run into difficulties when there are 3 or 4 of them on the pitch togethor was a really valid one. Ferguson's great at introducing kids one at a time, it takes the pressure off, and even if they are shite - there's enough quality around them to compensate.

Tonight for the most part 3/4 of our time was made up of kids, and squad players - all of whom need better players around them to bring their game on, because they're not good enough individually. Take N'gog; he's capable of getting a tap-in, doing something unexpectedly decent, or being in the right place, but to actually rely on him, to expect him to creat something is tough. He's not at that level, he's playing against quality opposition, and he has next to fuck all experience. The likes of him will improve when he's played in spurts, and alonsgide players who can afford to carry him when required.

[/quote]

I agree entirely with this.

Too often our youngsters are played at times of desperation, rather than being given the odd appearance when we're cruising to a comfortable victory. We've already had a number of heavy wins this season. The ends of those games are perfect opportunities to give youngsters like Ngog, Spearing and Kelly a run out but Rafa just doesn't seem to make use of them.

The 'sink or swim' mentality is flawed. The vast majority of youngsters with little to no prior experience at senior level are going to look out of their depth if thrown in at the deep end. We've had ample opportunity to give our youngsters some first team experience so that when they are called upon occasionally, they don't look so intimidated by it. Granted, Kelly was very good last night but I think he's an exception to the rule.

The worry is that Rafa feels he's given the kids an opportunity and they've spurned it, because in reality, he's done them no favours at all.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=36570.msg967745#msg967745 date=1256130690]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36570.msg967380#msg967380 date=1256085028]
Rafa's point the other day that it's "ok to blood younsgters one at a time" but you run into difficulties when there are 3 or 4 of them on the pitch togethor was a really valid one. Ferguson's great at introducing kids one at a time, it takes the pressure off, and even if they are shite - there's enough quality around them to compensate.

Tonight for the most part 3/4 of our time was made up of kids, and squad players - all of whom need better players around them to bring their game on, because they're not good enough individually. Take N'gog; he's capable of getting a tap-in, doing something unexpectedly decent, or being in the right place, but to actually rely on him, to expect him to creat something is tough. He's not at that level, he's playing against quality opposition, and he has next to fuck all experience. The likes of him will improve when he's played in spurts, and alonsgide players who can afford to carry him when required.

[/quote]

I agree entirely with this.

Too often our youngsters are played at times of desperation, rather than being given the odd appearance when we're cruising to a comfortable victory. We've already had a number of heavy wins this season. The ends of those games are perfect opportunities to give youngsters like Ngog, Spearing and Kelly a run out but Rafa just doesn't seem to make use of them.

The 'sink or swim' mentality is flawed. The vast majority of youngsters with little to no prior experience at senior level are going to look out of their depth if thrown in at the deep end. We've had ample opportunity to give our youngsters some first team experience so that when they are called upon occasionally, they don't look so intimidated by it. Granted, Kelly was very good last night but I think he's an exception to the rule.

The worry is that Rafa feels he's given the kids an opportunity and they've spurned it, because in reality, he's done them no favours at all.
[/quote]

Agree 100% with both of those posts lads. I said aswell in the booing thread, it's not good for the youngsters, talk about a baptism of fire!
 
On the point about blooding youngsters, wasn't Kelly played because of a late injury to Johnson. I'm sure Rafa would like the option to introduce youngsters on his own terms but it's not always possible, is it?
 
Do the reserves play the same tactics?

If they did it would make the step up a lot easier for them?

Especially defenders and the tactic we use in the first team to get offsides etc?
 
Ah fuck it we can debate the shortcomings of the team and the management till the cows come home, generally we are bang out of form lacking confidence and yesterday four players worth upwrads of twenty million, 2 of which players who would be superstars in any fucking side in the world were missing.

There really are not many sides in the world who could miss out 4 key first team players against a decent european team and expect to win.

As it is i thought we deserved a draw anyway.

We are shit out of luck at the moment folks.... shit out.
 
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=36570.msg967755#msg967755 date=1256131790]
On the point about blooding youngsters, wasn't Kelly played because of a late injury to Johnson. I'm sure Rafa would like the option to introduce youngsters on his own terms but it's not always possible, is it?


[/quote]

I appreciate that but if he views them as back-ups (which he clearly does since he played them last night) then it wouldn't hurt to give them a bit of match practice when we're 3 to the good against average opposition.

If at all possible, we should be trying to avoid handing kids their first meaningful opportunities as starters in massively important games. It's counterproductive and in most cases, does nothing for their development.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=36570.msg967781#msg967781 date=1256134470]
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=36570.msg967755#msg967755 date=1256131790]
On the point about blooding youngsters, wasn't Kelly played because of a late injury to Johnson. I'm sure Rafa would like the option to introduce youngsters on his own terms but it's not always possible, is it?


[/quote]

I appreciate that but if he views them as back-ups (which he clearly does since he played them last night) then it wouldn't hurt to give them a bit of match practice when we're 3 to the good against average opposition.

If at all possible, we should be trying to avoid handing kids their first meaningful opportunities as starters in massively important games. It's counterproductive and in most cases, does nothing for their development.
[/quote]

Wash was brought on at the end of all our 'easy' wins this season, wasn't he?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Farkmaster
    • Like
  • Locked
How good is this team?
2 3 4
Replies
116
Views
2K
Champ
C
dee
  • Locked
Claire Balding's love child is gagging for it
2 3 4
Replies
90
Views
3K
dee
dee
Frogfish
  • Locked
Should I stay or should I go?
Replies
5
Views
382
StevieM
StevieM
Whaddapie
    • Like
  • Locked
Sell EVERYBODY upfront, maybe..?
2 3 4 5
Replies
145
Views
4K
Markeh
Markeh
mwake
    • Like
  • Locked
Liverpool 2.0 or 1.5?
Replies
25
Views
695
Irishanfield
I
Back
Top Bottom