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The shame thread.

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Fuck that.

This thread needs a bit of realism.

We played shite against Spurs and the lads' performance were rightly lambasted. Don't forget we penned Spurs back in their own halves for pretty much of the 3rd and final quarter of the match. We always only start playing once we were a goal behind, chasing the game. My point is that we could've done so much better against an ordinary Spurs team, if only we fought a bit harder.

Did we play well against Stoke ? Frankly speaking, we were incohesive as a team and the beginning of the season's rustiness was evident. But this was excusable due to us playing with a make-shift defence as well as learning to adapt to Alonso's loss.

However, the 2nd half marked a drastic improvement. We were passing better, movement off the ball was commendable although still not fluid enough (again, that will take a few games to move up a gear), our growing confidence was telling but come on...let's admit it, it was a pretty shite Stoke team and any good team would've easily steamrolled them on that day.

And we're more than a good team that is gradually overcoming pre-season lethargy.

But there are a few gaping weaknesses that need to be addressed quickly because once the other good teams click into gear, we may not be as fortunate against Stoke when they failed to exploit our weaknesses.

2 key areas that need to be addressed quickly :-
1) Our midfield - we still lack cohesion, especially someone who has that extra speed of thought to turn defence into attack with one slick pass, as well as to calm things down when it gets all too congested. Lucas isn't that person to fill Alonso's role. While he does what is required satisfactorily, he also lacks that array of passing abilities that Alonso possesses. And because of that, the ball doesn't move forwards quickly enough, so Stevie G is obligated to fall back deeper to try to take control of things and initiate attacking moves. This leaves Torres somewhat isolated at times. This was very evident in the matches against Spurs, Ath Madrid and in patches (1st half, esp. after we scored) against Stoke.

Personally, I can't wait to see Aquilani in action.

Also, I'm hoping Riera comes back fast because he offers us balance. Yossi doesn't, simply because he has a tendency to cut in-field and while this usually initiates quick one-two attacking moves (which is good), he also loses the ball quite a lot. When that happens, our left side becomes empty. Yossi is more suited in the 'hole', not on the wings. If he has to play on the wings, he's more reliable on the right than the left.

2) Defence - Ayala did ok against Stoke but he's still raw and slow as fcuk. Against pacy runners (remember Aguero in the Ath. Madrid match), he will be destroyed and we will be fcuked. So unless Skrtel and Agger returns quickly, we will need to get a more experienced CB.
 
[quote author=Roger REDerer link=topic=35340.msg928696#msg928696 date=1250743403]
Fuck that.

This thread needs a bit of realism.

We played shite against Spurs and the lads' performance were rightly lambasted. Don't forget we penned Spurs back in their own halves for pretty much of the 3rd and final quarter of the match. We always only start playing once we were a goal behind, chasing the game. My point is that we could've done so much better against an ordinary Spurs team, if only we fought a bit harder.

Did we play well against Stoke ? Frankly speaking, we were incohesive as a team and the beginning of the season's rustiness was evident. But this was excusable due to us playing with a make-shift defence as well as learning to adapt to Alonso's loss.

However, the 2nd half marked a drastic improvement. We were passing better, movement off the ball was commendable although still not fluid enough (again, that will take a few games to move up a gear), our growing confidence was telling but come on...let's admit it, it was a pretty shite Stoke team and any good team would've easily steamrolled them on that day.

And we're more than a good team that is gradually overcoming pre-season lethargy.

But there are a few gaping weaknesses that need to be addressed quickly because once the other good teams click into gear, we may not be as fortunate against Stoke when they failed to exploit our weaknesses.

2 key areas that need to be addressed quickly :-
1) Our midfield - we still lack cohesion, especially someone who has that extra speed of thought to turn defence into attack with one slick pass, as well as to calm things down when it gets all too congested. Lucas isn't that person to fill Alonso's role. While he does what is required satisfactorily, he also lacks that array of passing abilities that Alonso possesses. And because of that, the ball doesn't move forwards quickly enough, so Stevie G is obligated to fall back deeper to try to take control of things and initiate attacking moves. This leaves Torres somewhat isolated at times. This was very evident in the matches against Spurs, Ath Madrid and in patches (1st half, esp. after we scored) against Stoke.

Personally, I can't wait to see Aquilani in action.

Also, I'm hoping Riera comes back fast because he offers us balance. Yossi doesn't, simply because he has a tendency to cut in-field and while this usually initiates quick one-two attacking moves (which is good), he also loses the ball quite a lot. When that happens, our left side becomes empty. Yossi is more suited in the 'hole', not on the wings. If he has to play on the wings, he's more reliable on the right than the left.

2) Defence - Ayala did ok against Stoke but he's still raw and slow as fcuk. Against pacy runners (remember Aguero in the Ath. Madrid match), he will be destroyed and we will be fcuked. So unless Skrtel and Agger returns quickly, we will need to get a more experienced CB.

[/quote]

Good post. Agree with all of that
 
1) Our midfield - we still lack cohesion, especially someone who has that extra speed of thought to turn defence into attack with one slick pass, as well as to calm things down when it gets all too congested. Lucas isn't that person to fill Alonso's role. While he does what is required satisfactorily, he also lacks that array of passing abilities that Alonso possesses. And because of that, the ball doesn't move forwards quickly enough, so Stevie G is obligated to fall back deeper to try to take control of things and initiate attacking moves. This leaves Torres somewhat isolated at times. This was very evident in the matches against Spurs, Ath Madrid and in patches (1st half, esp. after we scored) against Stoke.

We can get around this by remaining compact and just releasing the ball fast, giving the ball easy and making yourself available to recieve the pass. Lucas needs to play about ten yards further fowards which will in turn lesson the need for gerrard to drop deeper. We'll obviously miss alonso's ability to pick out a player and dictate the tempo (especially in regards to slowing the game down) but if the entire midfield move the ball quicker, crisper and sharper and put in the extra effort with running i.e. creating more movement then the hole by alonso will be lessened.

Also, I'm hoping Riera comes back fast because he offers us balance. Yossi doesn't, simply because he has a tendency to cut in-field and while this usually initiates quick one-two attacking moves (which is good), he also loses the ball quite a lot. When that happens, our left side becomes empty. Yossi is more suited in the 'hole', not on the wings. If he has to play on the wings, he's more reliable on the right than the left.

riera does indeed add balance which makes us look a more cohesive unit but yossi is far more likely to score and far more likely to split the opposition defensive, the need for width has been lessened by johnson and insua, as kuyt and yossi move inside it gives them greater license and freedom to exploit the space the defenders leave as they track yossi and kuyt.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35340.msg928897#msg928897 date=1250761870]
Roger makes GREAT football posts.
[/quote]

It's so much fun and easier being the forum clown.

I use my braincells from 9-5. Last thing I need is come on here and act all intelligent, e.g the likes of Farky, etc.
 
[quote author=Roger REDerer link=topic=35340.msg928923#msg928923 date=1250763755]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35340.msg928897#msg928897 date=1250761870]
Roger makes GREAT football posts.
[/quote]

It's so much fun and easier being the forum clown.

I use my braincells from 9-5. Last thing I need is come on here and act all intelligent, e.g the likes of Farky, etc.
[/quote]I dont think Farky 'acts' intelligent. But yeah like i Know man.
 
the time to judge good posts from poor ones is when the shit is hitting the fan not when things are rosy. picking highlights from dross takes some doing and it also shows a level calm head when probably everyone else is losing theirs.
 
[quote author=Roger REDerer link=topic=35340.msg928923#msg928923 date=1250763755]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35340.msg928897#msg928897 date=1250761870]
Roger makes GREAT football posts.
[/quote]

It's so much fun and easier being the forum clown.

I use my braincells from 9-5. Last thing I need is come on here and act all intelligent, e.g the likes of Farky, etc.
[/quote]

It requires less energy for you to be stupid, that's your steady state?
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35340.msg928904#msg928904 date=1250762576]
1) Our midfield - we still lack cohesion, especially someone who has that extra speed of thought to turn defence into attack with one slick pass, as well as to calm things down when it gets all too congested. Lucas isn't that person to fill Alonso's role. While he does what is required satisfactorily, he also lacks that array of passing abilities that Alonso possesses. And because of that, the ball doesn't move forwards quickly enough, so Stevie G is obligated to fall back deeper to try to take control of things and initiate attacking moves. This leaves Torres somewhat isolated at times. This was very evident in the matches against Spurs, Ath Madrid and in patches (1st half, esp. after we scored) against Stoke.

We can get around this by remaining compact and just releasing the ball fast, giving the ball easy and making yourself available to recieve the pass. Lucas needs to play about ten yards further fowards which will in turn lesson the need for gerrard to drop deeper. We'll obviously miss alonso's ability to pick out a player and dictate the tempo (especially in regards to slowing the game down) but if the entire midfield move the ball quicker, crisper and sharper and put in the extra effort with running i.e. creating more movement then the hole by alonso will be lessened.

Also, I'm hoping Riera comes back fast because he offers us balance. Yossi doesn't, simply because he has a tendency to cut in-field and while this usually initiates quick one-two attacking moves (which is good), he also loses the ball quite a lot. When that happens, our left side becomes empty. Yossi is more suited in the 'hole', not on the wings. If he has to play on the wings, he's more reliable on the right than the left.

riera does indeed add balance which makes us look a more cohesive unit but yossi is far more likely to score and far more likely to split the opposition defensive, the need for width has been lessened by johnson and insua, as kuyt and yossi move inside it gives them greater license and freedom to exploit the space the defenders leave as they track yossi and kuyt.
[/quote]

all valid points neil but in regards to your counter-point #1

- Yeah fast, crisp, short passing is great and we showed exactly that in the 2nd half against Stoke. But this is 2009. It ain't 1970. Almost every big club uses computer and hi-tech technology of some sort to analyze games, and you don't need a computer to figure how to counter tactics that employ fast, crisp, short passing.

Simple. Stick a world-class midfield enforcer and fcuk the entire passing rhythm up. The 2nd half game we played against Stoke was effective but it won't always work as well as anticipated against the top teams. Teams such as Chavshit who have 3 fcuking enforcers in the middle (Ballack, Fat Frank and the colossus that is Essien), especially Essien who will hunt you down and break your passing rhythm with ease. We have our own in Mascherano which was why I suspect Rafa was willing to let go Alonso instead of Mascher. Alonso was more of a flair player, a luxury but Mascher is one of the main cogs in the midfield engine. Take him out, you leave yourself vulnerable.

Stoke didn't have such a player who was willing to chase the ball like a fcuking nutter. Chelshit have. Scums have in Carrick and notice whenever the Scums play against top teams, they always deploy a DM. You simply can't afford to play without a DM when you're up against top teams, unless your team plays total football so well Cryuff will soak his pants.

Anyway yeah you get the drift.

And regarding Riera over Yossi on the LW, again...against the stronger teams, I'd still prefer Riera on LW as I'm more of an advocate of balance over all-out attack.

Ok gtg...hence the rushed reply. It probably has a lot of typos, grammatical errors and the occasional silly points that dont make sense. Oh well...brb
 
[quote author=Roger REDerer link=topic=35340.msg928936#msg928936 date=1250764801]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=35340.msg928904#msg928904 date=1250762576]
1) Our midfield - we still lack cohesion, especially someone who has that extra speed of thought to turn defence into attack with one slick pass, as well as to calm things down when it gets all too congested. Lucas isn't that person to fill Alonso's role. While he does what is required satisfactorily, he also lacks that array of passing abilities that Alonso possesses. And because of that, the ball doesn't move forwards quickly enough, so Stevie G is obligated to fall back deeper to try to take control of things and initiate attacking moves. This leaves Torres somewhat isolated at times. This was very evident in the matches against Spurs, Ath Madrid and in patches (1st half, esp. after we scored) against Stoke.

We can get around this by remaining compact and just releasing the ball fast, giving the ball easy and making yourself available to recieve the pass. Lucas needs to play about ten yards further fowards which will in turn lesson the need for gerrard to drop deeper. We'll obviously miss alonso's ability to pick out a player and dictate the tempo (especially in regards to slowing the game down) but if the entire midfield move the ball quicker, crisper and sharper and put in the extra effort with running i.e. creating more movement then the hole by alonso will be lessened.

Also, I'm hoping Riera comes back fast because he offers us balance. Yossi doesn't, simply because he has a tendency to cut in-field and while this usually initiates quick one-two attacking moves (which is good), he also loses the ball quite a lot. When that happens, our left side becomes empty. Yossi is more suited in the 'hole', not on the wings. If he has to play on the wings, he's more reliable on the right than the left.

riera does indeed add balance which makes us look a more cohesive unit but yossi is far more likely to score and far more likely to split the opposition defensive, the need for width has been lessened by johnson and insua, as kuyt and yossi move inside it gives them greater license and freedom to exploit the space the defenders leave as they track yossi and kuyt.
[/quote]

all valid points neil but in regards to your counter-point #1

- Yeah fast, crisp, short passing is great and we showed exactly that in the 2nd half against Stoke. But this is 2009. It ain't 1970. Almost every big club uses computer and hi-tech technology of some sort to analyze games, and you don't need a computer to figure how to counter tactics that employ fast, crisp, short passing.


[/quote]

when football is played correctly there is absolutely no counter for it. the best example I can think of is the valencia goal (scored by argentinian whose name escapes me). several passes with us unable to do fuck all to counter it.
 
Is Roger SCM's Lucas ?

Slowly blossoming into something that isn't completely embarrassing ?
 
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