The Qatar Stuff

[tony]

Bribery is certainly illegal throughout most of Europe. At the very least it defrauds the local football associations of funds, if put in the back pocket of the recipient so yes probably illegal in most other places too. Look at Havelange who took $24 in bribes when at the top table, look at Jack Warner, look at Chuck Blazer etc etc etc. You just say ho hum and look the other way do you?


You are sooooo off beam with the England comments. The fact is that the English press have been investigating and running stories about this for years and years. It was the England 2018 committee who complained bitterly about the uk press damaging their bid at that time with their intrusive investigations into Fifas' conduct. So not sour grapes at all, just really good journalism. Obviously they are going to release this story when it would have the maximum interest and inpact, no doubt there will be more revelations this Sunday too.

 

[StevieM]

Yes, that's what is supposed to happen. After all, FIFA go to the trouble and expense sending teams of experts to assess the ability of the potential host countries to put on the best show in the interests of the game. It's not worth doing all that if it's just going to be a bribery contest. 🙂

By "assess the ability" do you mean pick up cash instalments 🙂

 

[StevieM]

Bribery is certainly illegal throughout most of Europe. At the very least it defrauds the local football associations of funds, if put in the back pocket of the recipient so yes probably illegal in most other places too. Look at Havelange who took $24 in bribes when at the top table, look at Jack Warner, look at Chuck Blazer etc etc etc. You just say ho hum and look the other way do you?

Bribery is only illegal if it influences someone carrying out their legal duty.

Tipping a Barman is a bribe to try and ensure preferential service - it's not illegal though.

I actually think the bigger issue is how FIFA are sucking public funds out of countries to fund the tournaments to the detriment of local services, infrastructure, etc.

 

[Red Astaire]

Bribery is only illegal if it influences someone carrying out their legal duty.

Tipping a Barman is a bribe to try and ensure preferential service - it's not illegal though.

I actually think the bigger issue is how FIFA are sucking public funds out of countries to fund the tournaments to the detriment of local services, infrastructure, etc.

Hmmmmm = Good point.

 

[Athens]

Hmmmmm = Good point.

Of course it's a good point, this is @StevieM here, the man so smart he was kicked out of his home town.
With his IQ of 95
They don't like the educated around there.

 

[StevieM]

Of course it's a good point, this is @StevieM here, the man so smart he was kicked out of his home town.
With his IQ of 95
They don't like the educated around there.

At least I wasn't deported for being ginger. 🙂

 

[Athens]

At least I wasn't deported for being ginger. 🙂

I was deported for being too darn sexy.

 

[StevieM]

I was deported for being too darn sexy.

I bet they even put a bag over your head when they deported you.... So as your "sexiness" wouldn't make people loathe themselves.

 

[localny]

It's illegal because it is payments and incentives outside the system, so there's no transparency,and no ability to compete. FIFA has something in its charter about this. It's written backwards in 13th century Swahili I think

Separately, and hand on heart, a good friend in the USA , has a member of his family who I met, who was highly involved In bringing the bid for a recent WC tournament in recent (past 25 years) times to a particular country (not USA 94). He was on the lobbying committee, and it involved a lot of travel to countries with a lot of suitcases, bags packed with nothing but paper money. He told me a few years back.

 

[Athens]

I bet they even put a bag over your head when they deported you.... So as your "sexiness" wouldn't make people loathe themselves.

So you heard about that? They really should have used a paper bag or a sack, I could hardly breath inside that thing.

 

[tony]

Bribery is only illegal if it influences someone carrying out their legal duty.

Isn't that the definition of bribery and what has happened here!



Tipping a Barman is a bribe to try and ensure preferential service - it's not illegal though.

Of course its not bribery - you give your tip after the service is given as a thanks for good service, not in advance to buy good service. Never been in a bar where you pay for your drinks before you get them!

I actually think the bigger issue is how FIFA are sucking public funds out of countries to fund the tournaments to the detriment of local services, infrastructure, etc.

agreed

 

[StevieM]

It's illegal because it is payments and incentives outside the system, so there's no transparency,and no ability to compete. FIFA has something in its charter about this. It's written backwards in 13th century Swahili I think

Separately, and hand on heart, a good friend in the USA , has a member of his family who I met, who was highly involved In bringing the bid for a recent WC tournament in recent (past 25 years) times to a particular country (not USA 94). He was on the lobbying committee, and it involved a lot of travel to countries with a lot of suitcases, bags packed with nothing but paper money. He told me a few years back.

I knowing I'm playing semantics here - but I'd imagine their charter isn't law - so therefore it's not "illegal".

If they want pay each other in cash that's up to them.

Now what would be illegal. I'd imagine, is if any tax due (if it were considered taxable income - don't know whether Switzerland protects them) was not paid.

Let's not get all worked up and pretend that this sort of practice, doesn't happen in practically everything.

 

[tony]

In Fifas own charter, "gifts" are limited to approx 500 euros per delegate to avoid the possibility of the tournament being bought. Its all well and good being pragmatic but it doesn't make it right particularly in awarding the world cup to possibly the most unsuitable country apart from Syria in the entire world. Australia would have been a great choice.

 

[StevieM]

In Fifas own charter, "gifts" are limited to approx 500 euros per delegate to avoid the possibility of the tournament being bought. Its all well and good being pragmatic but it doesn't make it right particularly in awarding the world cup to possibly the most unsuitable country apart from Syria in the entire world. Australia would have been a great choice.

I agree with everything there - I've said before that staging the competition in Qatar is a horrendous decision - but the only way these things would be fair is if the draw was done on a lucky dips basis with the winner randomly pulled out of a hat.

It would be a much better system if all bids that met a predetermined criteria where simply placed in a hat & one selected.

It would cut out the wasteful expense of preparing a bid and remove the effectiveness if bribes.

 

[localny]

I knowing I'm playing semantics here - but I'd imagine their charter isn't law - so therefore it's not "illegal".

If they want pay each other in cash that's up to them.

Now what would be illegal. I'd imagine, is if any tax due (if it were considered taxable income - don't know whether Switzerland protects them) was not paid.

Let's not get all worked up and pretend that this sort of practice, doesn't happen in practically everything.

Right, but if an organization breaks it's own rules, it's decisions are in effect invalid. It's not illegal perhaps, but it means the decision to award can be challenged. The US also has bribery laws: if a US company bribes overseas, it gets into trouble in the US (Chase, and Wal Mart in China as examples). They US also then imposes sanctions of some sort on companies that do Bribe - it does things, like making it dofficult for them to have US bank accounts, or doing business with the US govmt, and companies..

 

[Mors]

Beckenbauer has been banned from FIFA for 90days for refusing to answer questions in the corruption enquiry lol
Is there anyone there that's not had some cash?!

 

[StevieM]

Right, but if an organization breaks it's own rules, it's decisions are in effect invalid. It's not illegal perhaps, but it means the decision to award can be challenged. The US also has bribery laws: if a US company bribes overseas, it gets into trouble in the US (Chase, and Wal Mart in China as examples). They US also then imposes sanctions of some sort on companies that do Bribe - it does things, like making it dofficult for them to have US bank accounts, or doing business with the US govmt, and companies..

From a quick look on Wikipedia it seems the bribe has to have taken place in America for it to hold - which may explain why your mate was stuffing suitcases full if cash before heading off.

I don't know what FIFA's rules state and I'm sure they have been broken - but equally, in sure Qatar has them by the balls by sheer volume of dirt, if they decide to rescind the decision.

 

[tony]

From a quick look on Wikipedia it seems the bribe has to have taken place in America for it to hold - which may explain why your mate was stuffing suitcases full if cash before heading off.

I don't know what FIFA's rules state and I'm sure they have been broken - but equally, in sure Qatar has them by the balls by sheer volume of dirt, if they decide to rescind the decision.

By the way Qatar have no legal rights or recall against Fifa if the decision is made to rerun! Appaz all bidders recind their rights once they decide to bid.

 

[tombrown]

No legal rights, but I am sure they have lots of dirt they can threaten to publish if it happens