The other tenth.
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[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=37067.msg984861#msg984861 date=1257805975]
Possession.
Vs Fulham 80%
Vs Birmingham 78%
points 1.
That other tenth is a bitch.
Our defence has given up 5 goals in 20 and 22% respectively.
We're scoring. We HAVE to tighten at the back.
Johnson-agger-carra-aurelio.
Get fit and stick with it.
[/quote]
Whilst I agree wholeheartedly it is more than a tenth 🙂
Possession.
Vs Fulham 80%
Vs Birmingham 78%
points 1.
That other tenth is a bitch.
Our defence has given up 5 goals in 20 and 22% respectively.
We're scoring. We HAVE to tighten at the back.
Johnson-agger-carra-aurelio.
Get fit and stick with it.
[/quote]
Whilst I agree wholeheartedly it is more than a tenth 🙂
[quote author=Dee link=topic=37067.msg984867#msg984867 date=1257806076]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=37067.msg984861#msg984861 date=1257805975]
Possession.
Vs Fulham 80%
Vs Birmingham 78%
points 1.
That other tenth is a bitch.
Our defence has given up 5 goals in 20 and 22% respectively.
We're scoring. We HAVE to tighten at the back.
Johnson-agger-carra-aurelio.
Get fit and stick with it.
[/quote]
Whilst I agree wholeheartedly it is more than a tenth 🙂
[/quote]No it isnt.
Possession = 9/10ths of the law.
This is about the other 10th
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=37067.msg984861#msg984861 date=1257805975]
Possession.
Vs Fulham 80%
Vs Birmingham 78%
points 1.
That other tenth is a bitch.
Our defence has given up 5 goals in 20 and 22% respectively.
We're scoring. We HAVE to tighten at the back.
Johnson-agger-carra-aurelio.
Get fit and stick with it.
[/quote]
Whilst I agree wholeheartedly it is more than a tenth 🙂
[/quote]No it isnt.
Possession = 9/10ths of the law.
This is about the other 10th
i'm made up you're not being a knee jerk, crying bell end this year, oncy. ;D
if I am a coach I will let us have the ball. we score few and have weak defense.
LET THEM HAVE THE BALL i would say to my players because they play with each other, not to win.
LET THEM HAVE THE BALL i would say to my players because they play with each other, not to win.
[quote author=Papa Douba Diouf link=topic=37067.msg984888#msg984888 date=1257806404]
if I am a coach I will let us have the ball. we score few and have weak defense.
LET THEM HAVE THE BALL i would say to my players because they play with each other, not to win.
[/quote]
Huh?
if I am a coach I will let us have the ball. we score few and have weak defense.
LET THEM HAVE THE BALL i would say to my players because they play with each other, not to win.
[/quote]
Huh?
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=37067.msg984885#msg984885 date=1257806367]
i'm made up you're not being a knee jerk, crying bell end this year, oncy. ;D
[/quote]If and when i believe Rafa is hindering us i'll bellend like the rest. Nothing he is doing or more importantly not doing is causing injury after injury, beach ball goals, harsh sendings off, individual mistakes and dropped points.
i'm made up you're not being a knee jerk, crying bell end this year, oncy. ;D
[/quote]If and when i believe Rafa is hindering us i'll bellend like the rest. Nothing he is doing or more importantly not doing is causing injury after injury, beach ball goals, harsh sendings off, individual mistakes and dropped points.
[quote author=vantage link=topic=37067.msg984906#msg984906 date=1257806982]
[quote author=Papa Douba Diouf link=topic=37067.msg984888#msg984888 date=1257806404]
if I am a coach I will let us have the ball. we score few and have weak defense.
LET THEM HAVE THE BALL i would say to my players because they play with each other, not to win.
[/quote]
Huh?
[/quote]
i will let Lucas and mascherano have the ball, they are not alonso and gerrard, you have to get a ball back from alonso and gerrard.
[quote author=Papa Douba Diouf link=topic=37067.msg984888#msg984888 date=1257806404]
if I am a coach I will let us have the ball. we score few and have weak defense.
LET THEM HAVE THE BALL i would say to my players because they play with each other, not to win.
[/quote]
Huh?
[/quote]
i will let Lucas and mascherano have the ball, they are not alonso and gerrard, you have to get a ball back from alonso and gerrard.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=37067.msg984875#msg984875 date=1257806243]
[quote author=Dee link=topic=37067.msg984867#msg984867 date=1257806076]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=37067.msg984861#msg984861 date=1257805975]
Possession.
Vs Fulham 80%
Vs Birmingham 78%
points 1.
That other tenth is a bitch.
Our defence has given up 5 goals in 20 and 22% respectively.
We're scoring. We HAVE to tighten at the back.
Johnson-agger-carra-aurelio.
Get fit and stick with it.
[/quote]
Whilst I agree wholeheartedly it is more than a tenth 🙂
[/quote]No it isnt.
Possession = 9/10ths of the law.
This is about the other 10th
[/quote]
Ha SUPERB
I remove my hat and doff in your direction
[quote author=Dee link=topic=37067.msg984867#msg984867 date=1257806076]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=37067.msg984861#msg984861 date=1257805975]
Possession.
Vs Fulham 80%
Vs Birmingham 78%
points 1.
That other tenth is a bitch.
Our defence has given up 5 goals in 20 and 22% respectively.
We're scoring. We HAVE to tighten at the back.
Johnson-agger-carra-aurelio.
Get fit and stick with it.
[/quote]
Whilst I agree wholeheartedly it is more than a tenth 🙂
[/quote]No it isnt.
Possession = 9/10ths of the law.
This is about the other 10th
[/quote]
Ha SUPERB
I remove my hat and doff in your direction
It looks like the spam bots are becoming self aware and responsive...
But yeah Oncy, I do know we have had bad luck to a degree, but Benitez has brought in these players over 5 years and this is his squad. It's still not good enough.
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=37067.msg984931#msg984931 date=1257807543]
But yeah Oncy, I do know we have had bad luck to a degree, but Benitez has brought in these players over 5 years and this is his squad. It's still not good enough.
[/quote]Well tonight alone we were missing our first choice left back, our first choice centre back, our creative midfielder, our support striker and our centre forward. We conceeded a wonder strike that he'll never score again. We had 27 shots and 78% possession. So forgive me if i dont get on his back just yet.
But yeah Oncy, I do know we have had bad luck to a degree, but Benitez has brought in these players over 5 years and this is his squad. It's still not good enough.
[/quote]Well tonight alone we were missing our first choice left back, our first choice centre back, our creative midfielder, our support striker and our centre forward. We conceeded a wonder strike that he'll never score again. We had 27 shots and 78% possession. So forgive me if i dont get on his back just yet.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=37067.msg984938#msg984938 date=1257807835]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=37067.msg984931#msg984931 date=1257807543]
But yeah Oncy, I do know we have had bad luck to a degree, but Benitez has brought in these players over 5 years and this is his squad. It's still not good enough.
[/quote]Well tonight alone we were missing our first choice left back, our first choice centre back, our creative midfielder, our support striker and our centre forward. We conceeded a wonder strike that he'll never score again. We had 27 shots and 78% possession. So forgive me if i dont get on his back just yet.
[/quote]
Yeah I like Benitez myself, I just think our squad should be in a better position to cope with such injuries by now. It was the same under Houllier whenever Owen and Gerrard were injured, it's the same now with Torres and Gerrard. Obviously our squad on a whole is better than 5 years ago, but not compared to how our competitors have progressed.
I could argue you against your stats there, and I'd be playing Devils advocate slightly by doing so. Fuck it I'll do it anyway... 27 shots - either we didn't take our chances or we didn't work the keeper enough, not good enough. 78% possession should yield more chances than we did create, likewise against Fulham - where we created fuck all (which is your point I suppose). And wonder strikes are one of those things in football. We've been on the side of quite a few in our time, and I doubt we'd put that down to just luck.
Today was one of those games that seemed to be against us from the off. But at the moment we're relying on players who wouldn't get near Chelsea or Man Utd's first team to drag us up to the top of the tree. Benitez could have done better with his acquisitions over the years,sure, and we're paying for it now after injuries to key players and nobody good enough ready to step in. However, on the flip side, this summer was THE summer for the owners to invest, to get us to the top level and they didn't do it. I think that is what is saving Rafa from a backlash from the supporters at the moment.
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=37067.msg984931#msg984931 date=1257807543]
But yeah Oncy, I do know we have had bad luck to a degree, but Benitez has brought in these players over 5 years and this is his squad. It's still not good enough.
[/quote]Well tonight alone we were missing our first choice left back, our first choice centre back, our creative midfielder, our support striker and our centre forward. We conceeded a wonder strike that he'll never score again. We had 27 shots and 78% possession. So forgive me if i dont get on his back just yet.
[/quote]
Yeah I like Benitez myself, I just think our squad should be in a better position to cope with such injuries by now. It was the same under Houllier whenever Owen and Gerrard were injured, it's the same now with Torres and Gerrard. Obviously our squad on a whole is better than 5 years ago, but not compared to how our competitors have progressed.
I could argue you against your stats there, and I'd be playing Devils advocate slightly by doing so. Fuck it I'll do it anyway... 27 shots - either we didn't take our chances or we didn't work the keeper enough, not good enough. 78% possession should yield more chances than we did create, likewise against Fulham - where we created fuck all (which is your point I suppose). And wonder strikes are one of those things in football. We've been on the side of quite a few in our time, and I doubt we'd put that down to just luck.
Today was one of those games that seemed to be against us from the off. But at the moment we're relying on players who wouldn't get near Chelsea or Man Utd's first team to drag us up to the top of the tree. Benitez could have done better with his acquisitions over the years,sure, and we're paying for it now after injuries to key players and nobody good enough ready to step in. However, on the flip side, this summer was THE summer for the owners to invest, to get us to the top level and they didn't do it. I think that is what is saving Rafa from a backlash from the supporters at the moment.
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=37067.msg984952#msg984952 date=1257808468]
.... But at the moment we're relying on players who wouldn't get near Chelsea or Man Utd's first team to drag us up to the top of the tree. ....[/quote]
Normally Insua, Lucas and Ngog (who is actually quite promising) wouldn't be near OUR first team
.... But at the moment we're relying on players who wouldn't get near Chelsea or Man Utd's first team to drag us up to the top of the tree. ....[/quote]
Normally Insua, Lucas and Ngog (who is actually quite promising) wouldn't be near OUR first team
[quote author=Papa Douba Diouf link=topic=37067.msg984921#msg984921 date=1257807248]
[quote author=vantage link=topic=37067.msg984906#msg984906 date=1257806982]
[quote author=Papa Douba Diouf link=topic=37067.msg984888#msg984888 date=1257806404]
if I am a coach I will let us have the ball. we score few and have weak defense.
LET THEM HAVE THE BALL i would say to my players because they play with each other, not to win.
[/quote]
Huh?
[/quote]
i will let Lucas and mascherano have the ball, they are not alonso and gerrard, you have to get a ball back from alonso and gerrard.
[/quote]Quite. That's some time delay you have in Senegal. I hate to break it to you, but Xabi left 4 months ago.
[quote author=vantage link=topic=37067.msg984906#msg984906 date=1257806982]
[quote author=Papa Douba Diouf link=topic=37067.msg984888#msg984888 date=1257806404]
if I am a coach I will let us have the ball. we score few and have weak defense.
LET THEM HAVE THE BALL i would say to my players because they play with each other, not to win.
[/quote]
Huh?
[/quote]
i will let Lucas and mascherano have the ball, they are not alonso and gerrard, you have to get a ball back from alonso and gerrard.
[/quote]Quite. That's some time delay you have in Senegal. I hate to break it to you, but Xabi left 4 months ago.
[quote author=Dee link=topic=37067.msg984958#msg984958 date=1257808885]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=37067.msg984952#msg984952 date=1257808468]
.... But at the moment we're relying on players who wouldn't get near Chelsea or Man Utd's first team to drag us up to the top of the tree. ....[/quote]
Normally Insua, Lucas and Ngog (who is actually quite promising) wouldn't be near OUR first team
[/quote]
I wouldn't agree about not being near our first team. Insua and Aurelio seem to be pretty much on a level playing field with Aurelio being so injury prone. He would definitely be on the bench at least. Lucas has been a first choice CM all season, and if he is indeed dropped for Aquilani, would still be in the first team. He played 25 games last season. I agree with you on N'gog, but he seems to be our second striker. Fernando, bless him, is very injury prone, so N'gog is bound to get quite a few outings this term. I don't mind having these players around, but we're relying on these players a lot. We should have a better left back than both Aurelio and Insua, we should have a better centre midfielder than Lucas, and we shouldn't have a 19 year old prospect as our only other striker.
Another thing, as good as Aquilani may be, Rafa clearly knew of his injury, clearly thought Lucas was good enough to at least deputise for him for nearly half a season and we're paying for that now. Lucas has done OK, but that's it. That's because he's just OK. Man Utd or Chelsea don't have any players that are just OK in such crucial positions for long periods of time.
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=37067.msg984952#msg984952 date=1257808468]
.... But at the moment we're relying on players who wouldn't get near Chelsea or Man Utd's first team to drag us up to the top of the tree. ....[/quote]
Normally Insua, Lucas and Ngog (who is actually quite promising) wouldn't be near OUR first team
[/quote]
I wouldn't agree about not being near our first team. Insua and Aurelio seem to be pretty much on a level playing field with Aurelio being so injury prone. He would definitely be on the bench at least. Lucas has been a first choice CM all season, and if he is indeed dropped for Aquilani, would still be in the first team. He played 25 games last season. I agree with you on N'gog, but he seems to be our second striker. Fernando, bless him, is very injury prone, so N'gog is bound to get quite a few outings this term. I don't mind having these players around, but we're relying on these players a lot. We should have a better left back than both Aurelio and Insua, we should have a better centre midfielder than Lucas, and we shouldn't have a 19 year old prospect as our only other striker.
Another thing, as good as Aquilani may be, Rafa clearly knew of his injury, clearly thought Lucas was good enough to at least deputise for him for nearly half a season and we're paying for that now. Lucas has done OK, but that's it. That's because he's just OK. Man Utd or Chelsea don't have any players that are just OK in such crucial positions for long periods of time.
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=37067.msg984963#msg984963 date=1257809310]
Another thing, as good as Aquilani may be, Rafa clearly knew of his injury, clearly thought Lucas was good enough to at least deputise for him for nearly half a season and we're paying for that now. Lucas has done OK, but that's it. That's because he's just OK. Man Utd or Chelsea don't have any players that are just OK in such crucial positions for long periods of time.
[/quote]
I'm reasonably sure I saw a quote from Rafa saying he was assured by medics that Aquilani would be up and running by late August/early Sept. and then had to re-assess.
Nevertheless, he does seem to like Lucas.
Another thing, as good as Aquilani may be, Rafa clearly knew of his injury, clearly thought Lucas was good enough to at least deputise for him for nearly half a season and we're paying for that now. Lucas has done OK, but that's it. That's because he's just OK. Man Utd or Chelsea don't have any players that are just OK in such crucial positions for long periods of time.
[/quote]
I'm reasonably sure I saw a quote from Rafa saying he was assured by medics that Aquilani would be up and running by late August/early Sept. and then had to re-assess.
Nevertheless, he does seem to like Lucas.
[quote author=Dee link=topic=37067.msg984968#msg984968 date=1257809508]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=37067.msg984963#msg984963 date=1257809310]
Another thing, as good as Aquilani may be, Rafa clearly knew of his injury, clearly thought Lucas was good enough to at least deputise for him for nearly half a season and we're paying for that now. Lucas has done OK, but that's it. That's because he's just OK. Man Utd or Chelsea don't have any players that are just OK in such crucial positions for long periods of time.
[/quote]
I'm reasonably sure I saw a quote from Rafa saying he was assured by medics that Aquilani would be up and running by late August/early Sept. and then had to re-assess.
Nevertheless, he does seem to like Lucas.
[/quote]
Yeah now that you mention it I do seem to remember that myself. Even so, the fact still remains that he clearly entrusts Lucas with quite a few games and a lot of responsibility. He has improved definitely, but can he take it up another notch? I'm not so sure.
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=37067.msg984963#msg984963 date=1257809310]
Another thing, as good as Aquilani may be, Rafa clearly knew of his injury, clearly thought Lucas was good enough to at least deputise for him for nearly half a season and we're paying for that now. Lucas has done OK, but that's it. That's because he's just OK. Man Utd or Chelsea don't have any players that are just OK in such crucial positions for long periods of time.
[/quote]
I'm reasonably sure I saw a quote from Rafa saying he was assured by medics that Aquilani would be up and running by late August/early Sept. and then had to re-assess.
Nevertheless, he does seem to like Lucas.
[/quote]
Yeah now that you mention it I do seem to remember that myself. Even so, the fact still remains that he clearly entrusts Lucas with quite a few games and a lot of responsibility. He has improved definitely, but can he take it up another notch? I'm not so sure.
[quote author=vantage link=topic=37067.msg984906#msg984906 date=1257806982]
[quote author=Papa Douba Diouf link=topic=37067.msg984888#msg984888 date=1257806404]
if I am a coach I will let us have the ball. we score few and have weak defense.
LET THEM HAVE THE BALL i would say to my players because they play with each other, not to win.
[/quote]
Huh?
[/quote]
Is this the same bloke that does Glock?
[quote author=Papa Douba Diouf link=topic=37067.msg984888#msg984888 date=1257806404]
if I am a coach I will let us have the ball. we score few and have weak defense.
LET THEM HAVE THE BALL i would say to my players because they play with each other, not to win.
[/quote]
Huh?
[/quote]
Is this the same bloke that does Glock?
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=37067.msg984861#msg984861 date=1257805975]
Possession.
Vs Fulham 80%
Vs Birmingham 78%
points 1.
That other tenth is a bitch.
Our defence has given up 5 goals in 20 and 22% respectively.
We're scoring. We HAVE to tighten at the back.
Johnson-agger-carra-aurelio
Get fit and stick with it.
[/quote]
In the past few years we've generally conceded around 20 - 25 goals in the league.
this season we've conceded 18 in 12 games.
Shocking stuff.
Possession.
Vs Fulham 80%
Vs Birmingham 78%
points 1.
That other tenth is a bitch.
Our defence has given up 5 goals in 20 and 22% respectively.
We're scoring. We HAVE to tighten at the back.
Johnson-agger-carra-aurelio
Get fit and stick with it.
[/quote]
In the past few years we've generally conceded around 20 - 25 goals in the league.
this season we've conceded 18 in 12 games.
Shocking stuff.
i don't care who was missing tonight rafa had 9 first team players out there that should have beaten mid table birmingham.
rafa gambled with torres' and gerrard's fitness and lost tonight but there have been plenty of other league games where both has played but not got the supply.
bottom line for me - masch and lucas as a midfield do not work and its cost us big time. rafa fucked up signing aquilani - i'd rather sjnider had been bought instead. he would have been cheaper and whilst he may be 7/10s the player aquilani is supposed to be he would be fit 90% of the time and is 100% better than lucas.
rafa gambled with torres' and gerrard's fitness and lost tonight but there have been plenty of other league games where both has played but not got the supply.
bottom line for me - masch and lucas as a midfield do not work and its cost us big time. rafa fucked up signing aquilani - i'd rather sjnider had been bought instead. he would have been cheaper and whilst he may be 7/10s the player aquilani is supposed to be he would be fit 90% of the time and is 100% better than lucas.
[quote author=rage link=topic=37067.msg984985#msg984985 date=1257810889]
i don't care who was missing tonight rafa had 9 first team players out there that should have beaten mid table birmingham.
rafa gambled with torres' and gerrard's fitness and lost tonight but there have been plenty of other league games where both has played but not got the supply.
bottom line for me - masch and lucas as a midfield do not work and its cost us big time. rafa fucked up signing aquilani - i'd rather sjnider had been bought instead. he would have been cheaper and whilst he may be 7/10s the player aquilani is supposed to be he would be fit 90% of the time and is 100% better than lucas.
[/quote]
That's got nothing to do with the topic of this thread.
i don't care who was missing tonight rafa had 9 first team players out there that should have beaten mid table birmingham.
rafa gambled with torres' and gerrard's fitness and lost tonight but there have been plenty of other league games where both has played but not got the supply.
bottom line for me - masch and lucas as a midfield do not work and its cost us big time. rafa fucked up signing aquilani - i'd rather sjnider had been bought instead. he would have been cheaper and whilst he may be 7/10s the player aquilani is supposed to be he would be fit 90% of the time and is 100% better than lucas.
[/quote]
That's got nothing to do with the topic of this thread.
Anyway, I don't think I can pick a back 4, even if all were available, that on the basis of this summer, I could have a ton of confidence in. The constant this year, regardless of personnel, is a failure to deal with second balls on set pieces.
The defense this year is completely uncharacteristic of Rafa's time in charge. I definitely agree with what Vlad was saying about there being a definite difficulty any time you replace a world class talent, like Hyppia, but the drop off from last year, where he didn't play much, to now, is so dramatic, that there's something else up. Carragher's deteriorating form is a huge part of it, but there's a lot of shit synergy going on with all sorts of contributing factors.
The defense this year is completely uncharacteristic of Rafa's time in charge. I definitely agree with what Vlad was saying about there being a definite difficulty any time you replace a world class talent, like Hyppia, but the drop off from last year, where he didn't play much, to now, is so dramatic, that there's something else up. Carragher's deteriorating form is a huge part of it, but there's a lot of shit synergy going on with all sorts of contributing factors.
[quote author=Dee link=topic=37067.msg984990#msg984990 date=1257811250]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37067.msg984986#msg984986 date=1257810980]
do with the topic of this thread.
[/quote]
Farky please don't quote the twat unless absolutely essential for context as it detracts from the "Ignore" functionality
Ta
[/quote]
even if everything 'that twat' said is true. grow up
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37067.msg984986#msg984986 date=1257810980]
do with the topic of this thread.
[/quote]
Farky please don't quote the twat unless absolutely essential for context as it detracts from the "Ignore" functionality
Ta
[/quote]
even if everything 'that twat' said is true. grow up
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