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The master tactician

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Insignificance

Insignificance

Bad to the bone
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Where did that rumour come from in the first place? Was it all down to the second half in Istanbul?

I am not sure, but to me it seems that every defensive coach is seen as a good tactician, whereas attaking minded coaches never are seen as good tacticians.

The only thing I am sure of is that I cant fucking figure out what kind of tactics Rafa has adressed games with this season...

Maybe we have tried to put team under high pressure, but we certainly has had no success with this.
Maybe we have tried to counter attack teams but we have certainly had no success with it.
Maybe we have tried to keep possesion and outplay other teams but we have certainly not had any success with it.
Maybe we have tried to lie low and kill the pace of games but we have certainly not had any success with them.
Maybe we have tried to double numbers on the flanks to attack wide, but we have certainly not had any success with this.
Maybe we have wanted to play the long ball to attack on the second ball but we have certainly not had any success on this.
Maybe we just have tried to attack randomly with whoever bothered to make a move, but we have certainly not had any success with this.
Maybe we have tried to put through balls for the front line to treathen the room behind defenders, but we have certainly not had any success with this.


All I know is that the master tactician goes on about how we have applied the same tactics for most games this season. I cant fucking see if it is one or all or none of the above. I just can see that he has failed miserably in his tactics whatever they were.
 
I guess it had something to do with beating the likes of Juventus, Barcelona and Chelsea in CL, season after season, with us definitely being an inferior side.
 
[quote author=ArtOfficialIntelligence link=topic=39718.msg1084402#msg1084402 date=1270711281]
I guess it had something to do with beating the likes of Juventus, Barcelona and Chelsea in CL, season after season, with us definitely being an inferior side.


[/quote]
Now is the mad season, not only is Rafa sh1t now but time to knock his previous achievements. Nothing like some retrospective bashing too.
 
His tactics are simple..


Put on a defensive team with little attacking threat.

Not concede and if we score thats a bonus, atleast we didnt lose.

Play zonal marking, which our players have no clue about and get raped from set pieces.

Make subs very late in the game so they have little chance to change the game.

Do nothing all game and then with 15mins to go, take off an attacker for another attacker, or a defender for a defender or a midfielder for a midfielder and hope for the best.


Am i missing anything? ???
 
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=39718.msg1084539#msg1084539 date=1270722843]
His tactics are simple..


Put on a defensive team with little attacking threat.

Not concede and if we score thats a bonus, atleast we didnt lose.

Play zonal marking, which our players have no clue about and get raped from set pieces.

Make subs very late in the game so they have little chance to change the game.

Do nothing all game and then with 15mins to go, take off an attacker for another attacker, or a defender for a defender or a midfielder for a midfielder and hope for the best.


Am i missing anything? ???
[/quote]

It could be that these are his tactics... However he aint very succesful in applying them 😱
 
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=39718.msg1084546#msg1084546 date=1270723600]
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=39718.msg1084539#msg1084539 date=1270722843]
His tactics are simple..


Put on a defensive team with little attacking threat.

Not concede and if we score thats a bonus, atleast we didnt lose.

Play zonal marking, which our players have no clue about and get raped from set pieces.

Make subs very late in the game so they have little chance to change the game.

Do nothing all game and then with 15mins to go, take off an attacker for another attacker, or a defender for a defender or a midfielder for a midfielder and hope for the best.


Am i missing anything? ???
[/quote]

It could be that these are his tactics... However he aint very succesful in applying them 😱
[/quote]
Well he hasn't been recently and most likely again but think the trophies he has won contradicts your argument.
 
[quote author=rubans link=topic=39718.msg1084548#msg1084548 date=1270723780]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=39718.msg1084546#msg1084546 date=1270723600]
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=39718.msg1084539#msg1084539 date=1270722843]
His tactics are simple..


Put on a defensive team with little attacking threat.

Not concede and if we score thats a bonus, atleast we didnt lose.

Play zonal marking, which our players have no clue about and get raped from set pieces.

Make subs very late in the game so they have little chance to change the game.

Do nothing all game and then with 15mins to go, take off an attacker for another attacker, or a defender for a defender or a midfielder for a midfielder and hope for the best.


Am i missing anything? ???
[/quote]

It could be that these are his tactics... However he aint very succesful in applying them 😱
[/quote]
Well he hasn't been recently and most likely again but think the trophies he has won contradicts your argument.[/quote]

Which was?
 
"he aint very succesful" which judging by the trophies he has won is not true. Simple.
 
[quote author=rubans link=topic=39718.msg1084618#msg1084618 date=1270731108]
"he aint very succesful" which judging by the trophies he has won is not true. Simple.
[/quote]

So you think the master tacticians tactics has been succesful? Which of them has he succeeded most with?
 
Not gonna bother going through with your list above since they are all subjective anyway but basic facts are his tactics regardless of the current and future success (looking very unlikely at the moment) have yielded 2 la ligues, 1 Champions league , 1 UEFA cup, 1 FA cup, 1 European super cup and maybe more I can't remeber. That is success.
 
Couldn't agree more. The time may have come for a change, but that's no excuse for fellow Reds to have such short memories.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=39718.msg1084662#msg1084662 date=1270735412]
Yeah, no one had a clue how to play zonal marking when Pepe got 2 or 3 golden gloves in a row.
[/quote]

So when you manage to defend yourself to a result you are a master tactician?
 
Agree that his past accomplishments should not be denegrated at all - He won a European Cup with Djime Traore and Milan Baros, ffs! - but I do agree that 'tactical genius' tags are too generous.

Yes, he has been able to plan a successful strategy versus superior teams whilst here. Full credit for that, especially from 2005 - 2007. But he's made far too many suicidal selections, formations and substitutions since then, particularly against lesser opposition to be considered a genius.

Credit where it's due, by all means. But likewise critisism.
 
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=39718.msg1084664#msg1084664 date=1270736199]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=39718.msg1084662#msg1084662 date=1270735412]
Yeah, no one had a clue how to play zonal marking when Pepe got 2 or 3 golden gloves in a row.
[/quote]

So when you manage to defend yourself to a result you are a master tactician?
[/quote]

When that's what's needed, yes of course. Don't know how much you remember of the glory days, but we did it many, many times even then, especially in Europe.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=39718.msg1084667#msg1084667 date=1270736402]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=39718.msg1084664#msg1084664 date=1270736199]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=39718.msg1084662#msg1084662 date=1270735412]
Yeah, no one had a clue how to play zonal marking when Pepe got 2 or 3 golden gloves in a row.
[/quote]

So when you manage to defend yourself to a result you are a master tactician?
[/quote]

When that's what's needed, yes of course. Don't know how much you remember of the glory days, but we did it many, many times even then, especially in Europe.
[/quote]

Of course I remember, even if I was drunk that day (yes I know it was several occacions but I was drunk that day too!!!)

But even then he did not neccesary manage to attack inferior teams did he? Is the only tactical magicians those who manage to defend themselves, and play a deep game?
 
Sorry, but who gives a flying f**k as long as we get the results we need? We haven't in the league (and for what it's worth I think that will haunt Rafa long after he's gone) but in Europe he's made us feared again, until this season anyway.
 
[quote author=rubans link=topic=39718.msg1084659#msg1084659 date=1270734920]
Not gonna bother going through with your list above since they are all subjective anyway but basic facts are his tactics regardless of the current and future success (looking very unlikely at the moment) have yielded 2 la ligues, 1 Champions league , 1 UEFA cup, 1 FA cup, 1 European super cup and maybe more I can't remeber. That is success.

[/quote]

1 champions league and 1 fa cup in 5years of being manager of liverpool is just not good enough
 
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=39718.msg1084691#msg1084691 date=1270739008]
[quote author=rubans link=topic=39718.msg1084659#msg1084659 date=1270734920]
Not gonna bother going through with your list above since they are all subjective anyway but basic facts are his tactics regardless of the current and future success (looking very unlikely at the moment) have yielded 2 la ligues, 1 Champions league , 1 UEFA cup, 1 FA cup, 1 European super cup and maybe more I can't remeber. That is success.

[/quote]

1 champions league and 1 fa cup in 5years of being manager of liverpool is just not good enough
[/quote]
Was responding to the comment about about him not being a successfull manager, read the reasoning above. and see the context it was said.
 
To suggest Rafa is inept tactically pretty much highlights how little some people know.
 
He's certainly not inept but he does make some puzzling decisions that seem to be motivated by (in my opinion, of course) ego and pride. He doesn't seem to allow himself to be proven wrong very often.
 
So basically, because we have lost a fair few games, and because of your inability to read a game, Rafa is not a master tactician.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion I guess.
 
I am not the judge here. But I still raise the question! Are you a master tactician if you manage to neutrulize so called big teams, but are not able to outplay so called smaller teams?
 
But they're not mutually exclusive, JJ - They're all football matches... So, what's you overall position?
 
As it's you asking the question, old friend, I'll answer it. No, I would not simply say that Rafa is a master tactician. I have to add, though, that IMO the question is too indiscriminate to shed much light on the situation, and that the most accurate and meaningful answer in my view would be that Rafa is a master tactician in Europe (which is why Juve want him) but not in the Prem.
 
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