The future of the Premiership
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[quote author=RedStar link=topic=47072.msg1408701#msg1408701 date=1317716715]
So if this decision, which I agree with 100%, means that Sky will be forced to revise their pricing of their Sports package which in turn means they will revise the money they are prepared to offer for the next TV deal does this make it more likely that clubs like us and Utd will move towards individual TV deals, because if that happens I think the premiership will be a dead duck within 5 years
[/quote]
...or the Greeks will have to pay more for their EPL-rights (more likely).
So if this decision, which I agree with 100%, means that Sky will be forced to revise their pricing of their Sports package which in turn means they will revise the money they are prepared to offer for the next TV deal does this make it more likely that clubs like us and Utd will move towards individual TV deals, because if that happens I think the premiership will be a dead duck within 5 years
[/quote]
...or the Greeks will have to pay more for their EPL-rights (more likely).
[quote author=Ossi link=topic=47072.msg1408712#msg1408712 date=1317717448]
[quote author=RedStar link=topic=47072.msg1408701#msg1408701 date=1317716715]
So if this decision, which I agree with 100%, means that Sky will be forced to revise their pricing of their Sports package which in turn means they will revise the money they are prepared to offer for the next TV deal does this make it more likely that clubs like us and Utd will move towards individual TV deals, because if that happens I think the premiership will be a dead duck within 5 years
[/quote]
...or the Greeks will have to pay more for their EPL-rights (more likely).
[/quote]
Hope not, it's already 50 euro a month.
[quote author=RedStar link=topic=47072.msg1408701#msg1408701 date=1317716715]
So if this decision, which I agree with 100%, means that Sky will be forced to revise their pricing of their Sports package which in turn means they will revise the money they are prepared to offer for the next TV deal does this make it more likely that clubs like us and Utd will move towards individual TV deals, because if that happens I think the premiership will be a dead duck within 5 years
[/quote]
...or the Greeks will have to pay more for their EPL-rights (more likely).
[/quote]
Hope not, it's already 50 euro a month.
Lol @ the premier league being optimistic of broadcasting revenues being unharmed.
I'll go with Ossi, the tarrifs that Greece etc get wil just go up to
Make up for the deficit.
It's a strange one, presumably either sky or the premier league will have to take a big hit On this ?
I'll go with Ossi, the tarrifs that Greece etc get wil just go up to
Make up for the deficit.
It's a strange one, presumably either sky or the premier league will have to take a big hit On this ?
Exactly Krump. It's only the pubs. Will home users who have Sky suddenly cease using it and move to foreign language providers ? Well, I have Sky and wouldn't bother me arse changing providers for the sake of the footy. Pubs have been completely ripped off with the scandalous charges from Sky and Sky now has two options. Make their pub prices realistic and gain some income from it or watch whilst more and more pubs move to foreign satellite providers. I expect the latter to happen anyway as there's a greater match choice elsewhere.
How would they get around this..............
This could be any Sky generated Graphic at any time during the match, the graphics before Slo Mo replays, substitutions, bookings, match statistics etc etc.
regards
This could be any Sky generated Graphic at any time during the match, the graphics before Slo Mo replays, substitutions, bookings, match statistics etc etc.
regards
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47072.msg1408719#msg1408719 date=1317718515]
Exactly Krump. It's only the pubs. Will home users who have Sky suddenly cease using it and move to foreign language providers ? Well, I have Sky and wouldn't bother me arse changing providers for the sake of the footy. Pubs have been completely ripped off with the scandalous charges from Sky and Sky now has two options. Make their pub prices realistic and gain some income from it or watch whilst more and more pubs move to foreign satellite providers. I expect the latter to happen anyway as there's a greater match choice elsewhere.
[/quote]
The law can easily apply for home users though, it just hasn't been tested.
I predict people with satellite fitting experience setting up companies offering Nova, Viasat or Tring packages (as all have PL games with english comms) with legit cards & full fitting for the third of Sky's prices for home users shortly.
I'm actually contemplating asking my mate whether he fancies setting one up, though at the minute he's more interested in doing the cardsharing side as it's way more profitable.
Exactly Krump. It's only the pubs. Will home users who have Sky suddenly cease using it and move to foreign language providers ? Well, I have Sky and wouldn't bother me arse changing providers for the sake of the footy. Pubs have been completely ripped off with the scandalous charges from Sky and Sky now has two options. Make their pub prices realistic and gain some income from it or watch whilst more and more pubs move to foreign satellite providers. I expect the latter to happen anyway as there's a greater match choice elsewhere.
[/quote]
The law can easily apply for home users though, it just hasn't been tested.
I predict people with satellite fitting experience setting up companies offering Nova, Viasat or Tring packages (as all have PL games with english comms) with legit cards & full fitting for the third of Sky's prices for home users shortly.
I'm actually contemplating asking my mate whether he fancies setting one up, though at the minute he's more interested in doing the cardsharing side as it's way more profitable.
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=47072.msg1408721#msg1408721 date=1317718879]
How would they get around this..............
This could be any Sky generated Graphic at any time during the match, the graphics before Slo Mo replays, substitutions, bookings, match statistics etc etc.
regards
[/quote]
No it's not, it's the PL graphic/logo used, the logo is often used in graphics before during & after the game.
As any who's watched the 3pkm kick offs in pubs or on their own big dish will know though, the graphics arent on the broadcast, each provider simply adds their own graphics onto the broadcast.
How would they get around this..............
This could be any Sky generated Graphic at any time during the match, the graphics before Slo Mo replays, substitutions, bookings, match statistics etc etc.
regards
[/quote]
No it's not, it's the PL graphic/logo used, the logo is often used in graphics before during & after the game.
As any who's watched the 3pkm kick offs in pubs or on their own big dish will know though, the graphics arent on the broadcast, each provider simply adds their own graphics onto the broadcast.
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47072.msg1408394#msg1408394 date=1317653947]
I'm sure something more sensible could've been worked out. For me, if say 90% of a pub's regulars either smoke or don't mind others smoking, as I'm sure is the case in plenty of old school pubs, then the gov's got no business interfering. I get that maybe it's tough to prove that's genuinely the case (have some kind of 'members' list maybe?) but I'm sure something could've been done if they wanted.
Instead they were too busy nannying all the poor wee peasants who need looking after.
[/quote]
Said from a smokers view point.
How about the workers?
Say the pretty barmaids up the duff and breathing in all that shite smoke, what should she do, leave a job she loves just because of 'smokers rights'?
(Its a shit stirring post just wanna see what the backlash is) Seriously though, my clothes smell a lot better since the smoking ban (i only smoke weed) and my breathing and Asthma have all gotten better too.
But the pubs FUCKING STINK!
The smoke hid the smell of stale sweat and stale beer and the cooking from the kitchens!
I'm sure something more sensible could've been worked out. For me, if say 90% of a pub's regulars either smoke or don't mind others smoking, as I'm sure is the case in plenty of old school pubs, then the gov's got no business interfering. I get that maybe it's tough to prove that's genuinely the case (have some kind of 'members' list maybe?) but I'm sure something could've been done if they wanted.
Instead they were too busy nannying all the poor wee peasants who need looking after.
[/quote]
Said from a smokers view point.
How about the workers?
Say the pretty barmaids up the duff and breathing in all that shite smoke, what should she do, leave a job she loves just because of 'smokers rights'?
(Its a shit stirring post just wanna see what the backlash is) Seriously though, my clothes smell a lot better since the smoking ban (i only smoke weed) and my breathing and Asthma have all gotten better too.
But the pubs FUCKING STINK!
The smoke hid the smell of stale sweat and stale beer and the cooking from the kitchens!
[quote author=themn link=topic=47072.msg1408777#msg1408777 date=1317725245]
Jon Fox - does the inside of your house look the The Warlock's "Command Centre" in 'Die Hard 4' ?
[/quote]
hahaha, no, most of my wires are hidden in trunking conduits!
Jon Fox - does the inside of your house look the The Warlock's "Command Centre" in 'Die Hard 4' ?
[/quote]
hahaha, no, most of my wires are hidden in trunking conduits!
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=47072.msg1408785#msg1408785 date=1317725633]
[quote author=themn link=topic=47072.msg1408777#msg1408777 date=1317725245]
Jon Fox - does the inside of your house look the The Warlock's "Command Centre" in 'Die Hard 4' ?
[/quote]
hahaha, no, most of my wires are hidden in trunking conduits!
[/quote]
Is Bex totally chilled about your tech ?
[quote author=themn link=topic=47072.msg1408777#msg1408777 date=1317725245]
Jon Fox - does the inside of your house look the The Warlock's "Command Centre" in 'Die Hard 4' ?
[/quote]
hahaha, no, most of my wires are hidden in trunking conduits!
[/quote]
Is Bex totally chilled about your tech ?
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=47072.msg1408782#msg1408782 date=1317725567]
I'd be all over that mate .
It certainly opens the door up for the consumer go get involved with it price sky.
[/quote]
That was supposed to be quoting foxie on his consumer satellite business comment
I'd be all over that mate .
It certainly opens the door up for the consumer go get involved with it price sky.
[/quote]
That was supposed to be quoting foxie on his consumer satellite business comment
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=47072.msg1408788#msg1408788 date=1317725725]
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=47072.msg1408782#msg1408782 date=1317725567]
I'd be all over that mate .
It certainly opens the door up for the consumer go get involved with it price sky.
[/quote]
That was supposed to be quoting foxie on his consumer satellite business comment
[/quote]
I *did* wonder if you were having some form of attack.
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=47072.msg1408782#msg1408782 date=1317725567]
I'd be all over that mate .
It certainly opens the door up for the consumer go get involved with it price sky.
[/quote]
That was supposed to be quoting foxie on his consumer satellite business comment
[/quote]
I *did* wonder if you were having some form of attack.
If the twats had been sensible about the pricing structure for pubs and clubs, they would not have caused this issue.
Krump mentioned that his pub was well over £1,000 a month.
Our sports club, run by volunteers, none profit making, just about surviving, is expected to stump up nearly £300 a month to Sky. Oh and the Performing Rights Society (PRS) take £500 a year off us too because we have the audacity to play CD's.
We jibbed Sky last year as we could not justify the cost, but have had to put it back as there was a big lump of something missing. You can't live with it, anmd you can't live without it.
regards
Krump mentioned that his pub was well over £1,000 a month.
Our sports club, run by volunteers, none profit making, just about surviving, is expected to stump up nearly £300 a month to Sky. Oh and the Performing Rights Society (PRS) take £500 a year off us too because we have the audacity to play CD's.
We jibbed Sky last year as we could not justify the cost, but have had to put it back as there was a big lump of something missing. You can't live with it, anmd you can't live without it.
regards
The Premier League's territorial restrictions on broadcasters such as British Sky Broadcasting Group showing its soccer matches breach European Union antitrust rules, the court has ruled.
BSkyB, the UK's biggest pay-TV operator, dropped as much as 4.2 per cent in London trading on foot of the ruling.
Landlady Karen Murphy was ordered to pay almost £8,000 in fines and costs after she was taken to court by the league for using a Greek decoder in her Portsmouth pub to screen matches, avoiding the league’s own controls over where its matches are screened.
The Court of Justice in Luxembourg ruled that territorial licenses are "contrary" to competition law "if the license agreements prohibit the supply of decoder cards to television viewers who wish to watch the broadcasts."
While the court said anyone can watch such broadcasts, pubs can't show the feeds via foreign decoder cards without the permission of the copyright owner, such as the broadcasters and the league.
The ruling by the ECJ could have major implications for how the Premier League sell their broadcast rights both in Britain and Europe as it does not preclude individuals from buying decoder cards from foreign suppliers.
Even if there was such copyright protection for sporting events, banning the use of foreign decoder cards “would go beyond what is necessary to ensure appropriate remuneration for the holders of the rights concerned”, the judge said.
“A system of exclusive licences is also contrary to EU competition law if the licence agreements prohibit the supply of decoder cards to television viewers who wish to watch the broadcasts outside the member state for which the licence is granted,” they said.
However, the court added that the opening video sequence, the Premier League anthem, pre-recorded films showing highlights of recent Premier League matches and various graphics could be regarded as “works” which were protected by copyright.
“By contrast, the matches themselves are not works enjoying such protection.
“That being so, the court decides that transmission in a pub of the broadcasts containing those protected works, such as the opening video sequence or the Premier League anthem, constitutes a ‘communication to the public’ within the meaning of the copyright directive, for which the authorisation of the author of the works is necessary, because when a pub transmits those works to the customers present on the premises the works are transmitted to an additional public which was not considered by the authors when they authorised the broadcasting of their works.”
The verdict could mean a major rethink by the Premier League of its current exclusive agreements with Sky Sports - which provides the league with most of its television income - and ESPN.
The Premier League has already taken action against two suppliers of foreign satellite equipment and a group of pub landlords who used imported decoding equipment to show English Premier League games and avoid the commercial premises subscription fees for Sky.
The case against the landlords has now been settled but the league is continuing action against the suppliers of decoders.
This article seem to suggest that Pubs won't be able to broadcast foreign feeds but individual will be able to access themor have I read it wrong. ???
@FFF I assume you were aware the Premier league were in the process of suing some decoder suppliers
BSkyB, the UK's biggest pay-TV operator, dropped as much as 4.2 per cent in London trading on foot of the ruling.
Landlady Karen Murphy was ordered to pay almost £8,000 in fines and costs after she was taken to court by the league for using a Greek decoder in her Portsmouth pub to screen matches, avoiding the league’s own controls over where its matches are screened.
The Court of Justice in Luxembourg ruled that territorial licenses are "contrary" to competition law "if the license agreements prohibit the supply of decoder cards to television viewers who wish to watch the broadcasts."
While the court said anyone can watch such broadcasts, pubs can't show the feeds via foreign decoder cards without the permission of the copyright owner, such as the broadcasters and the league.
The ruling by the ECJ could have major implications for how the Premier League sell their broadcast rights both in Britain and Europe as it does not preclude individuals from buying decoder cards from foreign suppliers.
Even if there was such copyright protection for sporting events, banning the use of foreign decoder cards “would go beyond what is necessary to ensure appropriate remuneration for the holders of the rights concerned”, the judge said.
“A system of exclusive licences is also contrary to EU competition law if the licence agreements prohibit the supply of decoder cards to television viewers who wish to watch the broadcasts outside the member state for which the licence is granted,” they said.
However, the court added that the opening video sequence, the Premier League anthem, pre-recorded films showing highlights of recent Premier League matches and various graphics could be regarded as “works” which were protected by copyright.
“By contrast, the matches themselves are not works enjoying such protection.
“That being so, the court decides that transmission in a pub of the broadcasts containing those protected works, such as the opening video sequence or the Premier League anthem, constitutes a ‘communication to the public’ within the meaning of the copyright directive, for which the authorisation of the author of the works is necessary, because when a pub transmits those works to the customers present on the premises the works are transmitted to an additional public which was not considered by the authors when they authorised the broadcasting of their works.”
The verdict could mean a major rethink by the Premier League of its current exclusive agreements with Sky Sports - which provides the league with most of its television income - and ESPN.
The Premier League has already taken action against two suppliers of foreign satellite equipment and a group of pub landlords who used imported decoding equipment to show English Premier League games and avoid the commercial premises subscription fees for Sky.
The case against the landlords has now been settled but the league is continuing action against the suppliers of decoders.
This article seem to suggest that Pubs won't be able to broadcast foreign feeds but individual will be able to access themor have I read it wrong. ???
@FFF I assume you were aware the Premier league were in the process of suing some decoder suppliers
Well...
The Premier League, home to some of Europe’s most successful clubs including Manchester United and Liverpool, started a three-year 1.8 billion-pound ($2.8 billion) U.K. television contract in August 2010, and receives a further 1.4 billion pounds from the sale of international broadcast rights. The ruling offers something for the league and the U.K. pub owner that tried to show local matches from a Greek provider.
And then this
The Premier League's television income from mainland Europe is about £130m, less than 10% of their total £1.4bn overseas rights deal.
I don't really get this. Europe is only 10% of that deal - which would mean 130 / 3 = 43 million a year?
If so, each pub generates average 15000 a year - so 3000 pubs = the whole of Europe. There are 52,000 pubs in the UK. I don't know how many get Sky sports but it's safe to assume that quite a bit more than 5% do.
My point is this... There's no reason to assume Sky will scrap the pub deal... They might instead make the rights to Europe much more expensive - seeing as that's the smaller revenue generator anyway.
Feel free to point out any obvious errors in my logic.
The Premier League, home to some of Europe’s most successful clubs including Manchester United and Liverpool, started a three-year 1.8 billion-pound ($2.8 billion) U.K. television contract in August 2010, and receives a further 1.4 billion pounds from the sale of international broadcast rights. The ruling offers something for the league and the U.K. pub owner that tried to show local matches from a Greek provider.
And then this
The Premier League's television income from mainland Europe is about £130m, less than 10% of their total £1.4bn overseas rights deal.
I don't really get this. Europe is only 10% of that deal - which would mean 130 / 3 = 43 million a year?
If so, each pub generates average 15000 a year - so 3000 pubs = the whole of Europe. There are 52,000 pubs in the UK. I don't know how many get Sky sports but it's safe to assume that quite a bit more than 5% do.
My point is this... There's no reason to assume Sky will scrap the pub deal... They might instead make the rights to Europe much more expensive - seeing as that's the smaller revenue generator anyway.
Feel free to point out any obvious errors in my logic.
Yeah, that's about right TBH.
I'm still amazed that Nova, Tring or similar arent simply offering a broadcast without the PL trademarked graphics on, they add them, so they could double their price, offer it EU wide & still be undercutting Sky by a massive margin.
If one of them has the balls to do it the market will explode.
I'm still amazed that Nova, Tring or similar arent simply offering a broadcast without the PL trademarked graphics on, they add them, so they could double their price, offer it EU wide & still be undercutting Sky by a massive margin.
If one of them has the balls to do it the market will explode.
By Krump's logic, won't they just hike the price for the other Euro Countries to watch the Prem? They obviously won't pay and that will then close that whole avenue of opportunity for UK pubs. The lost revenue from the other Euro Countries doesn't sound like it will kill Sky or the Premier League.
Didn't those broadcasts used to come from Saudi or Far East anyway?
Personally, I hope Sky collapse somehow and Sport is thrust back into the good old dark ages. Jimmy Hill, ITV. Also, if the main big fuck off dish fell on Murdoch a la Goldeneye, that would be superb.
Didn't those broadcasts used to come from Saudi or Far East anyway?
Personally, I hope Sky collapse somehow and Sport is thrust back into the good old dark ages. Jimmy Hill, ITV. Also, if the main big fuck off dish fell on Murdoch a la Goldeneye, that would be superb.
I don't get how Europe is only 10% of the deal. I realise that Europe only has about 10% of the people on the planet, but I'd have thought they were the most likely to be wealthy football watching types.
But yeah, I haven't heard anyone else suggest that sky would fuck Europe over in favour of their pub business - but I can't see why they wouldn't based on those figures... Unless of course they see Europe as a bigger potential market that could grow larger than their pubs (which would seem to be the case... but I don't see why it isn't already).
But yeah, I haven't heard anyone else suggest that sky would fuck Europe over in favour of their pub business - but I can't see why they wouldn't based on those figures... Unless of course they see Europe as a bigger potential market that could grow larger than their pubs (which would seem to be the case... but I don't see why it isn't already).
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