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The future of the Premiership

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Rosco

Worse than Brendan
Member
It's in the balance !

The European Court of Justice will this week hear a landmark case brought by a Portsmouth-based pub landlord, which could change the landscape of how sports broadcasting rights are sold across Europe.

Five years ago, Karen Murphy would try to draw punters to her Portsmouth pub, The Red, White and Blue, by showing Premier League football matches on the pub TV.

However, she found the monthly subscription to Sky Sports increasingly unaffordable - pubs can pay more than £1,000 a month.

Instead, she found a cheaper means of screening English football - a subscription to a Greek satellite broadcaster, NOVA. This imported satellite card was around one 10th of the cost Karen was paying to BSkyB.

She says she's not the only one saving money in this way:

"I think you'll find that most publicans will try and find another way of showing football. In fact quite a lot of them do.

"I think it's only the larger chains that can afford to pay the Sky prices. A lot of pubs have taken Sky out - they simply can't afford it."

Copyright concern

However, using these foreign subscription cards puts publicans like Ms Murphy in breach of UK copyright law, because the means by which they screen football is not via the authorised broadcaster - Sky Sports.

As a result, Ms Murphy was taken to court and ended up having to pay nearly £8,000 in fines and costs after being caught by enforcers working on behalf of Football Association Premier League Limited (FAPL) - the private company which represents the broadcasting interests of the 20 English Premier League clubs.

Five years on from her first appearance in a magistrates court, she has taken her appeal all the way to the grand chamber of the European Court of Justice (ECJ) - a court reserved only for the most complex and important cases of European law.

"I think it's unjust. I think it's a greedy private company trying to dictate to the small people what they can and cannot do, purely for profit," she told 5 live Investigates.

"The law needs changing. If I don't fight who is going to fight?"

Sitting in her pub, she puts her case into perspective:

"If I wanted to go and buy a car, I could go to any garage I like. Me, as a publican, if I want to show football, I can only go to the Sky garage, and have to pay 10 times the price of anybody else [in Europe]. I don't believe that's fair."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11452434

The article is actually a good bit longer, but I thought I'd spare you. I would be amazed if the ECJ change anything dramatically here. Sky will continue to have their cake and eat it.
 
I think you're right Ross but essentially she is purchasing a service off a cheaper provider. Surely there's some kind of legal footing here ? Come on do that law thing you do !
 
It doesn't matter TBH. the European court will uphold the right to buy from anywhere in the eu.

When they do the sky tv money will be worth much less as there's no exclusivity. The premiership will change dramatically & so will the way we watch it.

I think that sky & the PL will create a separate eu wide tv station & sell the rights Europe wide instead of by country. As other areas pay much less though it will mean less money for clubs.

This was bound to happen, sky fees of 12k annually to pubs are extornionate.
 
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=47072.msg1408104#msg1408104 date=1317582497]
Has Sky got a monopoly on PL games? If so, isn't that illegal?
[/quote]

No, in the uk espn have about a fifth of games too.
 
[quote author=Woland link=topic=47072.msg1408112#msg1408112 date=1317584482]
Wouldn't it be ace to see Murdoch getting bummed in the courts once more?
[/quote]

Nah, he's not really my type.
 
[quote author=Woland link=topic=47072.msg1408112#msg1408112 date=1317584482]
Wouldn't it be ace to see Murdoch getting bummed in the courts once more?
[/quote]

Yep, I pretty confident he will be too.
 
Sky want 1300 plus VAT per month for my boozer. You can fit about 30 people in the bar. It's total madness.
 
It's going on.

It'll lead to the end of Sky et al doing territory by territory packages on sport, movies and tv etc.

Although lets look at the bigger picture here, it generates billions for the UK, jobs will be lost as a consequence to this. No doubt a few thousand times more than those that'd be lost by the closure of a pub without a sky sports license.
 
Jobs will also be created to advertise, control, manage and sell the new way of televising the PL games, sport in general, movies and tv etc.
 
People will most likely be able to choose just to add sport packages, meaning they save £30+ a month, which they'll then be able to spend, creating jobs, as opposed to giving to sky who are stripping back staff constantly & paying fuck all in the way of UK tax on their profits.
 
Yeah we'll just recoup the £4 billion + that this is worth to the UK just like that?

Im in no way defending sky and would dearly to see Murdoch dropkicked in the face but at the same time, Im not sure this is the way to do it.
 
Doesnt matter, the eu will declare it unlawful regardless, as they should according to their own laws regards freedom of trade.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=47072.msg1408153#msg1408153 date=1317590895]
Doesnt matter, the eu will declare it unlawful regardless, as they should according to their own laws regards freedom of trade.
[/quote]

The UK economy doesnt matter?
 
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=47072.msg1408165#msg1408165 date=1317593029]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=47072.msg1408153#msg1408153 date=1317590895]
Doesnt matter, the eu will declare it unlawful regardless, as they should according to their own laws regards freedom of trade.
[/quote]

The UK economy doesnt matter?
[/quote]Probably within the mind of the EU lawmakers it is secondary to the greater EU good.
 
i'm about a million miles from being some murdoch-hating socialist, but i don't see how this will adversely affect the UK economy. it'll affect Sky's revenues, and eventually players' wages, but most of the money pubs save will be recycled elsewhere in the economy, quite apart from the doubts over how many jobs or how much tax sky provide with the income.
 
I can't see it having an adverse effect on the economy. Sky money has pretty much all turned into bigger contracts for footballers. Pardon me if I don't give a fuck if they have to get scaled back and while pubs have an easier ride.*

*I'm currently selling mine so it's no big deal to me business wise, but I like pubs. They're ace.
 
[quote author=Woland link=topic=47072.msg1408374#msg1408374 date=1317650891]

*I'm currently selling mine so it's no big deal to me business wise, but I like pubs. They're ace.
[/quote]

I've got an offer in on a pub lease at present but I'm not sure I need the hassle, just wondering why are you getting out of it Krump?
 
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=47072.msg1408165#msg1408165 date=1317593029]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=47072.msg1408153#msg1408153 date=1317590895]
Doesnt matter, the eu will declare it unlawful regardless, as they should according to their own laws regards freedom of trade.
[/quote]

The UK economy doesnt matter?
[/quote]

It doesn't matter to the law, no.

Regardless, as everyone is pointing out, the money people spend on Sky isn't money they otherwise save away for a rainy day, they will simply spend the savings on something else, & as Murdoch paid fuck all in the way of UK tax the economy will probably end up profiting.
 
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=47072.msg1408376#msg1408376 date=1317651214]
[quote author=Woland link=topic=47072.msg1408374#msg1408374 date=1317650891]

*I'm currently selling mine so it's no big deal to me business wise, but I like pubs. They're ace.
[/quote]

I've got an offer in on a pub lease at present but I'm not sure I need the hassle, just wondering why are you getting out of it Krump?
[/quote]

I'm selling it because the current manager wants to buy it, not because I've been hawking it round for sale. He's a good lad and wants to be there for the medium term so it makes sense. I'm not desperate to get rid or anything. If you send me a PM I can do some very quick reasonableness checks on what you're being offered, as it's very easy to make a mistake on a pub lease. I'm not suggesting you won't do due diligence but I might be able to help establish if it's viable quite quickly.
 
[quote author=Woland link=topic=47072.msg1408379#msg1408379 date=1317651790]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=47072.msg1408376#msg1408376 date=1317651214]
[quote author=Woland link=topic=47072.msg1408374#msg1408374 date=1317650891]

*I'm currently selling mine so it's no big deal to me business wise, but I like pubs. They're ace.
[/quote]

I've got an offer in on a pub lease at present but I'm not sure I need the hassle, just wondering why are you getting out of it Krump?
[/quote]

I'm selling it because the current manager wants to buy it, not because I've been hawking it round for sale. He's a good lad and wants to be there for the medium term so it makes sense. I'm not desperate to get rid or anything. If you send me a PM I can do some very quick reasonableness checks on what you're being offered, as it's very easy to make a mistake on a pub lease. I'm not suggesting you won't do due diligence but I might be able to help establish if it's viable quite quickly.
[/quote]

Thanks Woland I'll PM you soon.
 
[quote author=Woland link=topic=47072.msg1408374#msg1408374 date=1317650891]
I can't see it having an adverse effect on the economy. Sky money has pretty much all turned into bigger contracts for footballers. Pardon me if I don't give a fuck if they have to get scaled back and while pubs have an easier ride.*

*I'm currently selling mine so it's no big deal to me business wise, but I like pubs. They're ace.
[/quote]

I agree with this. And I like pubs too. They're much more socially important than Sky telly
 
[quote author=Woland link=topic=47072.msg1408374#msg1408374 date=1317650891]
I can't see it having an adverse effect on the economy. Sky money has pretty much all turned into bigger contracts for footballers. Pardon me if I don't give a fuck if they have to get scaled back and while pubs have an easier ride.*

*I'm currently selling mine so it's no big deal to me business wise, but I like pubs. They're ace.
[/quote]

Totally, it'd be a much-needed boost to a pretty beleaguered industry. I've always thought the blanket smoking ban was unnecessarily hard on landlords.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47072.msg1408388#msg1408388 date=1317652648]
[quote author=Woland link=topic=47072.msg1408374#msg1408374 date=1317650891]
I can't see it having an adverse effect on the economy. Sky money has pretty much all turned into bigger contracts for footballers. Pardon me if I don't give a fuck if they have to get scaled back and while pubs have an easier ride.*

*I'm currently selling mine so it's no big deal to me business wise, but I like pubs. They're ace.
[/quote]

Totally, it'd be a much-needed boost to a pretty beleaguered industry. I've always thought the blanket smoking ban was unnecessarily hard on landlords.
[/quote]

Damn straight, it should have been phased in & much more emphasis on smoking areas in big pubs. Anyone who saw the filtration system they had in the pub in Liverpool John Lennon airport & how effective it was knows it was a viable solution.

That said I suppose logically thinking that could have an adverse effect on smaller pubs.
 
I'm sure something more sensible could've been worked out. For me, if say 90% of a pub's regulars either smoke or don't mind others smoking, as I'm sure is the case in plenty of old school pubs, then the gov's got no business interfering. I get that maybe it's tough to prove that's genuinely the case (have some kind of 'members' list maybe?) but I'm sure something could've been done if they wanted.

Instead they were too busy nannying all the poor wee peasants who need looking after.
 
Told ya, no way would the EU judge against their own ruling, esp' when as important as freedom of trade/providing services within the EU.

Times they are a'changing...
 
For once the EU has done something good. And to a lesser extent in this case the Greeks.
 
So if this decision, which I agree with 100%, means that Sky will be forced to revise their pricing of their Sports package which in turn means they will revise the money they are prepared to offer for the next TV deal does this make it more likely that clubs like us and Utd will move towards individual TV deals, because if that happens I think the premiership will be a dead duck within 5 years
 
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