The Donkey
- Thread starter rurikbird
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The comparison is that they are divisive players, yeah.
What?!
The only person stopping Jones getting more minutes is Jones considering he was competing with Thiago and Keita for that LCM spot.
My take is we took a chance with Thiago to give Jones a clear pathway to the first team.
Jones turning out to be injury prone ruined that.
Even though I have been pessimistic about Nunez, I wouldn't be actively looking to sell him. Though I feel all of our attackers are dispensable if we need to raise money, save wages etc.
I dont think the new management team will be making wholesale changes to the squad. We have a manager with no PLexperience. Revamping the squad will be one too many changes this summer.
I wouldnt be surprised if we focus on critical areas - central defense, defensive midfielder, Allison, Trent, VVD contracts this summer and then reassess the attack after Slot has worked with them for a year.
This makes sense (didn't Klopp do exactly this)? However there are two thoughts that counter that :
a) we already have the core of a great side here - we won't want to waste a year of VvD, Ali, Robbo, Mo if he's here, last years at the top and
b) If Slot has a strong idea how he's going to play he'll want players that fit that mould.
Theres some logic to that, but I don't think we spent 50m on keita to let Jones come in. Equally I don't think we spent an additional 70m this summer (Macca & gravy) to allow it either. Even after an extended and impressive run in the side (necessitated by injuries), we still went for the players klopp wanted, rather than the ones he was given. Not that I'm complaining mind, Macca is much better than Jones.
Jones has got minutes due to injuries to first team players. Hes had his minutes limited by injuries to. I don't think there's ever been an overarching plan to make Jones in the first xi, just as I think there's been no overarching plan to bring any youth player in to the first xi.
Hell, even kelleher had the fortune of Ali being injury prone and Adrian being unfathomably shite.
I think it's just disingenuous to say klopps brought through loads of kids. He's given em a debut, but dropped them like a bad habit when people return from injury; regardless of form
Every manager does that unless the kids are exceptional.
Quansah he’s stuck with and given game time ahead of Konate (sometimes questionably).
Otherwise who are these kids he should have been playing?
Bradley took his chance and then got injured. The rest of them are not good enough / not ready.
But there's a Difference between regular minutes and only using them when shits dire.
Konate is clearly on some managed minutes shite. Quansah is borderline the new nat Phillips.
Bradley we don't know, as Trent would have come back in, regardless of how he did.
As for who the kids are.... I don't know, as we barely saw many get consistent minutes with decent players. Lots of them get dropped on with the other kids on the league cup
Like, I'm not saying klopp should have been starting danns for the last 2 months.... But 5 minutes against United when chasing a goal rather than defenders. There's no logic or justification for that
I agree with you that Klopp’s treatment of Danns and Elliott after their cup heroics didn’t make sense. But this was literally the only time in Klopp’s tenure when I thought “I wish he trusted the kids more.” So I don’t have an explanation for it, but overall over his tenure his ability to develop young players has been extraordnarily good. There is no manager at a comparable size club fighting for top trophies who has done more IMO.
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Don't get me wrong, this isn't something that I've bemoaned for years. It's more hindsight and kind of only thought about it properly this year when it's been thrust upon me.
When it comes to developing players I agree, he's turned good players to world beaters....but really it's only been Trent from an academy level that's been developed in house.
As for other managers, not sure. Guadiola the cunt has developed foden perfectly. You could see he was going to with Palmer but he got impatient. Chelsea hasn't had a manager there long enough to judge. United this season ran with youth in garnacho and mainoo. Neither dropped when first teamers came back.
This isn't an eternal.bemoaning of klopp, as there's every chance the academy has produced fuck all worthwhile; but we've not really been given the chance to see that either
By this standard, if Quansah and Jones are judged to be “played by necessity” and not because Klopp trusted them, then Mainoo and Garnacho are the same. I don’t think it’s a fair standard.
I gave you a like kind of love for that last paragraph you Top Red You !!!!
Why? Mainoo has kept mount, amrabatoit, moved casemeiro to CB. Jones and quansah haven't done anything comparable. Garnacho, granted, doesn't have the stiffest competition
Mount has been injured the whole season, Amrabat is a League Two player, Eriksen is finished, Casemiro plays CB because they have zero fit CBs so Mainoo’s minutes are because of a need not a choice.
He’s also overhyped to the extreme I might add.
Garnacho plays cause Rashford and Antony are dogshit.
He’s also overhyped to the extreme I might add.
Garnacho plays cause Rashford and Antony are dogshit.
Hasn’t he been touted for an England call up?
I would go back to the title winning season. Post Covid with the title won that was an excellent time to bleed in the kids and fringe players. Yet he seemed hell bent on playing the same XI. Klopp had the opportunity to give a lot of players an effective 6 months off to prolong their shelf life but didn’t. Even when we were smashing teams he wouldn’t make changes to bleed players in. Being 4-0 up and giving Salah and Mane 85+ minutes is absolutely illogical to me.
I recall him playing Nico Williams a lot in that period, and the kid got dogs abuse on social media
I liked the kid. I think. Found his level at Forest.
I also find it stupid that footballers have social media.
I also find it stupid that footballers have social media.
View: https://youtu.be/KbMC4fBIIeA?si=q5uatdwYBvq83Wsc
Some insight from the journo David Lynch.
15 minutes of triggering me by using xG to show we are useless in front of goal.
I perked up a bit about how Slot may play, being more controlled and less heavy metal than Klopp. So where does that leave the agent of chaos?
Well done 👏 most impressive
And they've done fucking great
But Jones was kept in the side when on form (Gravy bought to bolster midfield not to replace Jones, Macca plays ina different position) but is a sick note so it's important to have back up (see Thiago).
I don't get the 'no overarching plan to bring any youth into the first XI', why would there be ? The manager will/should always put those who improve the team first. It's up to the youth players to show that they deserve the slot, not give them preference because they are young, so that means making the most of the time they are given (both on the pitch and in training - which we don't get to see).
This would be different for say a Leicester, Brighton or a Crystal Palace level club.
It's a bit of a Catch 66 as youth players need time and experience to improve, whilst most top teams can't afford to give them that time and experience unless they are exceptional from the off (Trent).
Ooh that's exaggerating the situation at other clubs methinks.
Mainoo and Garnacho both came in because United had a serious injury list. Even then both of them had managed minutes and Garnacho dropped when he didn't play well.
Foden is a Trent level player. Palmer isn't. One of these will come through now and again - but it's not going to be very season or 2-3 at the same time.
If the academy has produced fuck all why would we be given the chance to see that? I'm not following your train of thought here. Not good enough = no minutes but plenty have been given them so I can't see the issue.
haha, it means x3 as bad, and fuck old age.
So why bother having an academy at all? Pumping tens of millions into something with the small hope you get a one in a generation player seems counter intuitive when you may as well put that money to a more established player.
I don’t have an Xpert eleven academy because it is a waste of money.
Edit. Yes I know the academy delivers more than just potential superstars but those we can sell for a mill or two. Plus it looks good on the balance sheet.
I don’t have an Xpert eleven academy because it is a waste of money.
Edit. Yes I know the academy delivers more than just potential superstars but those we can sell for a mill or two. Plus it looks good on the balance sheet.
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