The "Day After" Summary thread

[dee]

Ryan (or somebody) usually creates a thread summing up the game after time for reflection.

I've just got back from a (completely wasted) trip to India and missed the match altogether so I'd appreciate it if people could sum up the game pros/cons - I've seen the MotD highlights but that's all.

Ta!

 

[SummerOnions]

A draw was a fair result; we lack cohesion and faith.

i think that's pretty much it.

 

[Judge Jules]

TBF we flew out of the traps and were playing some good stuff till Agger and Babel got injured. It's true, though, that those injuries immediately deflated us and we didn't seem able to claw our way out of that till Yossi forced the equaliser.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

I assume Agger will be available again on Tuesday?

Bollocks to Babel.

 

[Asbo]

There 2nd goal was offside we equalised under 1 min later, 2 points robbed to add to the 1 point from the Sunderland 'beachball' game.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

He was behind the ball when it was crossed

 

[Loch Ness Monster]

He wasn't offside.

- We started really well, looking dangerous. Babel looked lively and had Zabaletta on the back foot big time.
-Lucas and Masher came seeking the ball from the back 4 instead of leaving them to hoof it. Masher looked for a forward pass much much more than his mate Lucas, who seemed to be happy to take a touch and then return it to sender or another defender.
-Kuyt is hopelessly out of form and touch, and seemed lost as to his position too. He was far too deep, maybe worrying about Bellamy getting at Carra.
-Skrtel did OK, just did not attack the space for the Adebayor goal.
-We seemed to be doing a mix of zonal and man marking from corners. There was the usual row of defenders on the six yard line, but the second row of 3 who normally plonk themselves about 10-12 yards out were not there. They were man to man by the looks of it. So why not man-mark Adebayor as he is a big danger in the air?
-The Greek dominated in the air, and did OK on the deck, but got done big time for their second goal.
-N'gog started well but gave away possession too many times trying to be too clever when the simple option was on.
-Gerrard is nowhere near fit, and could hardly jog after 60 minutes.
-Masher is a diamond and tried to drag the team to a win. A captains performance.
-As soon as we scored, we got nervous and just gave the ball to them constantly until they took the lead. Confidence is in tatters.
-Horse placenta works. How Yossi was able to play for an hour only 2 weeks after a hamstring is beyond me.
-we miss Torres so so so much when he is not there.
-Aquillaini is not match fit, but should be now after making his debut a month ago.

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=37365.msg995507#msg995507 date=1258902162]
He wasn't offside.

- We started really well, looking dangerous. Babel looked lively and had Zabaletta on the back foot big time.
-Lucas and Masher came seeking the ball from the back 4 instead of leaving them to hoof it. Masher looked for a forward pass much much more than his mate Lucas, who seemed to be happy to take a touch and then return it to sender or another defender.
-Kuyt is hopelessly out of form and touch, and seemed lost as to his position too. He was far too deep, maybe worrying about Bellamy getting at Carra.
-Skrtel did OK, just did not attack the space for the Adebayor goal.
-We seemed to be doing a mix of zonal and man marking from corners. There was the usual row of defenders on the six yard line, but the second row of 3 who normally plonk themselves about 10-12 yards out were not there. They were man to man by the looks of it. So why not man-mark Adebayor as he is a big danger in the air?
-The Greek dominated in the air, and did OK on the deck, but got done big time for their second goal.
-N'gog started well but gave away possession too many times trying to be too clever when the simple option was on.
-Gerrard is nowhere near fit, and could hardly jog after 60 minutes.
-Masher is a diamond and tried to drag the team to a win. A captains performance.
-As soon as we scored, we got nervous and just gave the ball to them constantly until they took the lead. Confidence is in tatters.
-Horse placenta works. How Yossi was able to play for an hour only 2 weeks after a hamstring is beyond me.
-we miss Torres so so so much when he is not there.
-Aquillaini is not match fit, but should be now after making his debut a month ago.

[/quote]

Saved me the trouble.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=37365.msg995507#msg995507 date=1258902162]
-Kuyt is hopelessly out of form and touch, and seemed lost as to his position too. He was far too deep, maybe worrying about Bellamy getting at Carra.[/quote]

He is undroppable ... so to mention this is just pointing out to one of Rafa's main weaknesses as a manager - inability to drop struggling players for a game or two to just give 'em a break.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Remember when we were losing to someone and he took some striker off (I forget who) but left Morientes on because he "needed a goal". Poor.

 

[peekay]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=37365.msg995536#msg995536 date=1258905075]
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=37365.msg995507#msg995507 date=1258902162]
-Kuyt is hopelessly out of form and touch, and seemed lost as to his position too. He was far too deep, maybe worrying about Bellamy getting at Carra.[/quote]

He is undroppable ... so to mention this is just pointing out to one of Rafa's main weaknesses as a manager - inability to drop struggling players for a game or two to just give 'em a break.
[/quote]

I like Dirk Kuyt and I think he is a valuable member of the squad. But I dont see any point in playing him when Gerrard and Torres are out of form or are not playing. When our team is clicking and is in full gear, he should start on the right hand side of front 3. If not I would rather play Yossi on the right and Riera on the left.

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=37365.msg995536#msg995536 date=1258905075]
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=37365.msg995507#msg995507 date=1258902162]
-Kuyt is hopelessly out of form and touch, and seemed lost as to his position too. He was far too deep, maybe worrying about Bellamy getting at Carra.[/quote]

He is undroppable ... so to mention this is just pointing out to one of Rafa's main weaknesses as a manager - inability to drop struggling players for a game or two to just give 'em a break.
[/quote]

Agree in general, but in this particular game he didn't have much choice. Magic was out, as were Kelly and Degen, while Yossi and Riera hadn't trained since coming back from injury. To leave out a fully fit Dirk would have been perverse for any manager under those circumstances, not just Rafa.

 

[Fallon]

In one sense we were classic Liverpool yesterday, in that after scoring we sat back until the other team equalised. Yes City picked it up after we scored, but it was like we were shit scared of trying to move forward, at one point N'Gog (I think) had the ball 30 yards from their goal and only Gerrard was in their half with him. Aqualani should have played a part and Babel shouldn't have played (and should never get near a red shirt ever again). We also need to sort out whatever the fuck is going wrong on set pieces, and at the minute it does look like Zonal is the problem (after 5 years of slagging it, the pundits are right this time).

Also considering we had 2 defensive midfielders on the pitch (Masch had a good game), the amount of times Barry/Ireland or even frigging De Jong took the ball 30-40 yards straight through the middle was unreal. One of the main reasons we play this stupid fucking system (might work when we have a fully fit 1st team, but even then we shouldn't play it at home) is because of the so called protection it gives to the defence, what's the point if it doesn't work? Of course Benitez will never change it because he is a ridiculously (regardless of if you think he is a good coach or not, this is true) arrogant manager, there's few worse in club football in that regard.

Yes we were stupidly unlucky again with injuries and our confidence is in the drain, but that game was still there for the taking. 2 points lost rather than 1 won IMO.

 

[Fallon]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=37365.msg995536#msg995536 date=1258905075]
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=37365.msg995507#msg995507 date=1258902162]
-Kuyt is hopelessly out of form and touch, and seemed lost as to his position too. He was far too deep, maybe worrying about Bellamy getting at Carra.[/quote]

He is undroppable ... so to mention this is just pointing out to one of Rafa's main weaknesses as a manager - inability to drop struggling players for a game or two to just give 'em a break.
[/quote]


Or an inability to change his view on things, we could put Stevie on the right for 2 games and have Purple play the link, that way Kuyt can be dropped (off a bridge 😛 ) for a while.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=37365.msg995586#msg995586 date=1258908969]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=37365.msg995536#msg995536 date=1258905075]
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=37365.msg995507#msg995507 date=1258902162]
-Kuyt is hopelessly out of form and touch, and seemed lost as to his position too. He was far too deep, maybe worrying about Bellamy getting at Carra.[/quote]

He is undroppable ... so to mention this is just pointing out to one of Rafa's main weaknesses as a manager - inability to drop struggling players for a game or two to just give 'em a break.
[/quote]

Agree in general, but in this particular game he didn't have much choice. Magic was out, as were Kelly and Degen, while Yossi and Riera hadn't trained since coming back from injury. To leave out a fully fit Dirk would have been perverse for any manager under those circumstances, not just Rafa. [/quote]

Agree - but even if we had the options you mentioned, Rafa wouldn't drop Dirk ... and that has long been an issue with most of us, even us 'converted' Dirk fans.

[quote author=peekay link=topic=37365.msg995554#msg995554 date=1258906882]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=37365.msg995536#msg995536 date=1258905075]
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=37365.msg995507#msg995507 date=1258902162]
-Kuyt is hopelessly out of form and touch, and seemed lost as to his position too. He was far too deep, maybe worrying about Bellamy getting at Carra.[/quote]

He is undroppable ... so to mention this is just pointing out to one of Rafa's main weaknesses as a manager - inability to drop struggling players for a game or two to just give 'em a break.
[/quote]

I like Dirk Kuyt and I think he is a valuable member of the squad. But I dont see any point in playing him when Gerrard and Torres are out of form or are not playing. When our team is clicking and is in full gear, he should start on the right hand side of front 3. If not I would rather play Yossi on the right and Riera on the left.
[/quote]

I don't see a point in playing him when Stevie and Torres are IN FORM and he's so horribly off form ... If you're off form, like he's been the better part of the last two months, you spot should be on the bench ... When he's on form, he's a key part of our team. When he's been this poor, he hurts us a lot when we attack DESPITE his phenomenal work rate.

 

[Y1]

kuyt's work rate in keeping the ball in at fulham cost us the match....

 

[Jack D Rips]

[quote author=Fallon link=topic=37365.msg995620#msg995620 date=1258910603]
In one sense we were classic Liverpool yesterday, in that after scoring we sat back until the other team equalised. Yes City picked it up after we scored, but it was like we were shit scared of trying to move forward, at one point N'Gog (I think) had the ball 30 yards from their goal and only Gerrard was in their half with him. Aqualani should have played a part and Babel shouldn't have played (and should never get near a red shirt ever again). We also need to sort out whatever the fuck is going wrong on set pieces, and at the minute it does look like Zonal is the problem (after 5 years of slagging it, the pundits are right this time).

Also considering we had 2 defensive midfielders on the pitch (Masch had a good game), the amount of times Barry/Ireland or even frigging De Jong took the ball 30-40 yards straight through the middle was unreal. One of the main reasons we play this stupid fucking system (might work when we have a fully fit 1st team, but even then we shouldn't play it at home) is because of the so called protection it gives to the defence, what's the point if it doesn't work? Of course Benitez will never change it because he is a ridiculously (regardless of if you think he is a good coach or not, this is true) arrogant manager, there's few worse in club football in that regard.

Yes we were stupidly unlucky again with injuries and our confidence is in the drain, but that game was still there for the taking. 2 points lost rather than 1 won IMO.
[/quote]

There is nothing wrong with the Zonal marking system ( last season it produced the 2nd best defensive record in the league). What is wrong, is players not doing their zonal marking job properly.

 

[Fallon]

I know, I wasn't having a go at the system but right now it isn't working for us (and hasn't been for more or less all of this season) so if we can't get it to work soon we should consider man to man until everyone is fit and settled and we can go back to it.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

They scored when we were defending man to man, not zonal.

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=37365.msg995651#msg995651 date=1258913404]
They scored when we were defending man to man, not zonal.
[/quote]

Skrtel wasn't man-marking Adebayor though. Either that or he was daydreaming when the ball came in.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

I think it was the latter

 

[Loch Ness Monster]

It was a hybrid of zonal and man to man. As stated earlier, Skrtel and the other defenders were on the six yard line doing the zonal thing. Kuyt, Gerrard and one other were man to man just inside the penalty spot. It was Skryel not attacking his zone that was the problem, Adebayor made the most of it.

 

[keniget]

Rafa said in that Tompkins article that they employ a hybrid system. I don't think it really matters - unless you're intent on moaning about Sky or whoever singling out zonal marking. Whatever it is, it's fucking shit and not working.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

true

 

[Fallon]

As Keni said, whatever the fook it is (I just thought it was Zonal) it isn't working. One thing I would definitely do though, until we stop these silly goals, is put a man on one of the posts.

 

[dee]

Cheers lads

 

[dee]

[quote author=Fallon link=topic=37365.msg995683#msg995683 date=1258914820]
One thing I would definitely do though, until we stop these silly goals, is put a man on one of the posts.
[/quote]

Agrees vehemently

 

[Loch Ness Monster]

Zonal marking does not allow for men on the posts. Nor does it allow a man to be left upfield for the clearance. Get as many men in the box, leaving as little space as possible free, and then all attack it. The last 2 words of my previous sentence is crucially where the problem lies. We have shithouses in the air, who are not prepared to dominate their own zones. I would take it as a personal insult if someone scored from within my zone.

 

[Fallon]

I always thought Zonal was two banks of 4? Which should allow one for the post and one for upfield. Having every man back in the box and still letting stupid goals in is fucking retarded.

 

[darkstarexodus]

[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=37365.msg995726#msg995726 date=1258919057]
We have shithouses in the air, who are not prepared to dominate their own zones. I would take it as a personal insult if someone scored from within my zone.
[/quote]

x Infinity.