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The central defence conundrum.

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Modo

Modo

A contentious scando
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Carra
Agger
Skrtel
Coates

Our future defensive line is probably going to be Agger - Coates.
If the Urguayan can fulfill his potential and if the Dane can keep himself injury free it'll be the beez knees.

What about Carra?
Is this the season when Carra get's relegated to the bench?

Coates won the Copa America this summer playing against the likes of Messi, Aguero and Tevez.
He should be ready to step in. But will he be given the chance?
Wouldnt it be somewhat degrading to have him play in the league cup and FA cup while he's a certain starter in the national team that currently are South American champions.

How about Skrtel? Probably Slovakia's best defender. I don't think he'll be happy being fourth choice.

How are we gonna keep them all happy?

Right now, it's Agger +?
 
No, right now it's Carra + and the + for me remains Agger. However, i expect we'll start next season with Coates - Agger.
 
I'd rather have this problem than not having enough decent players. It comes with having a solid squad. You could say the same about the other top clubs too couldn't you?

With injuries, suspensions etc they will all get a decent number of games, especially with Agger's record and the fact Carra is knocking on a bit.

In regard to Coates, I don't care if he does find it degrading frankly (and I doubt he would). You come to a club and compete for a place don't you?
 
I honestly don't think it's a problem. If anything it's the other way round: Carra's on his last legs, Agger's still a worry, Skrtel's probably not quite good enough as a first choice, and Coates has yet to kick a ball outside the Uruguayan league.

I'd still like us to try for Cahill on a free. A lot will depend on whether Kelly, Wisdom or Wilson look up to the task too, I guess.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=46743.msg1393963#msg1393963 date=1315073738]
I honestly don't think it's a problem. If anything it's the other way round: Carra's on his last legs, Agger's still a worry, Skrtel's probably not quite good enough as a first choice, and Coates has yet to kick a ball outside the Uruguayan league.

I'd still like us to try for Cahill on a free. A lot will depend on whether Kelly, Wisdom or Wilson look up to the task too, I guess.
[/quote]

Wasn't Skrtel first choice in the 2008-2009 season when we got 86 points in the League, finished 2nd and should have won the damn thing - or am i just imaging that?
 
Skrtel gets no love on here and i don't know why. Every other defender we have is just as prone to a fuck up as skrtel. Skrtel is in the carra mould but with the benefit of being a bit of a unit. Carra + skrtel looks shaky because they're too similar. Agger and skrtel looks shaky because there's no natural leader. Effectively skrtel is only 4th choice because he just doesn't quite fit with our other partner

who knows, skrtel and coates could be phenomenal
 
[quote author=Dylan link=topic=46743.msg1393956#msg1393956 date=1315073399]
No, right now it's Carra + and the + for me remains Agger. However, i expect we'll start next season with Coates - Agger.
[/quote]
^^^
This
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=46743.msg1393968#msg1393968 date=1315074566]
Skrtel gets no love on here and i don't know why. Every other defender we have is just as prone to a fuck up as skrtel. Skrtel is in the carra mould but with the benefit of being a bit of a unit. Carra + skrtel looks shaky because they're too similar. Agger and skrtel looks shaky because there's no natural leader. Effectively skrtel is only 4th choice because he just doesn't quite fit with our other partner

who knows, skrtel and coates could be phenomenal
[/quote]

It's strange alright. The only criticism i have of Skrtel is he is sometimes too rash in the tackle and sometimes doesn't use his size and power enough aerially.
The thumping header he scored last week vs Bolton showed that's he more than capable in that department.

Apart from that i think he's a real good defender. Mobile, strong, a good tackler and has a decent turn of pace. Some of his performances up against Drogba over the years have really stood out.
 
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=46743.msg1393974#msg1393974 date=1315075080]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=46743.msg1393968#msg1393968 date=1315074566]
Skrtel gets no love on here and i don't know why. Every other defender we have is just as prone to a fuck up as skrtel. Skrtel is in the carra mould but with the benefit of being a bit of a unit. Carra + skrtel looks shaky because they're too similar. Agger and skrtel looks shaky because there's no natural leader. Effectively skrtel is only 4th choice because he just doesn't quite fit with our other partner

who knows, skrtel and coates could be phenomenal
[/quote]

It's strange alright. The only criticism i have of Skrtel is he is sometimes too rash in the tackle and sometimes doesn't use his size and power enough aerially.
The thumping header he scored vs Bolton showed that's he more than capable though.

Apart from that i think he's a real good defender. Mobile, strong, a good tackler and has a decent turn of pace. Some of his performances up against Drogba over the years have really stood out.
[/quote]

Exactly

He stands out when against a lone striker (like chelseas 4-3-3) but struggles against 4-4-2 or a player in the hole, for the simple reasons of:
1) if with carra they both get drawn to a certain player because they are similar. Carra tries to organise as best he can but with skrtels rashness (and carras own rashness) it hurts the squad.
2) If with agger there is no orchestration, no placement, no communication, so goals are leaked. Thankfully we have a GK who is immense at organising so when this partnership happens its not the end of the world (and on occasion looks great)

If skrtel can be more composed, or learns to organise like carragher he could be a great defender
 
Has to be Agger + 1

Carra is too slow now and although he is a good defender and reads the game well, time is ticking and he should slowly start to make way for Skrtel/Coates
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=46743.msg1393982#msg1393982 date=1315076210]
If he reads the game well, does pace really matter?


What all time great CB has had pace? (serious question)
[/quote]

Exactly.

Think with carragher he reads the game well, but sometimes his positioning can be a bit....lacklustre. Hence why he's the king of last ditch tackles


and i am not advocating dropping him by saying that
 
[quote author=Modo link=topic=46743.msg1393979#msg1393979 date=1315075693]
Agger has been our defender this season.
Hence Agger +?
[/quote]

Not kept many clean sheets though have we?
 
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=46743.msg1393965#msg1393965 date=1315074372]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=46743.msg1393963#msg1393963 date=1315073738]
I honestly don't think it's a problem. If anything it's the other way round: Carra's on his last legs, Agger's still a worry, Skrtel's probably not quite good enough as a first choice, and Coates has yet to kick a ball outside the Uruguayan league.

I'd still like us to try for Cahill on a free. A lot will depend on whether Kelly, Wisdom or Wilson look up to the task too, I guess.
[/quote]

Wasn't Skrtel first choice in the 2008-2009 season when we got 86 points in the League, finished 2nd and should have won the damn thing - or am i just imaging that?
[/quote]

Well, seeing as that was the season he suffered a serious long-term knee injury - after which he's never been quite as good - then I'd say yes, you are imagining that.
 
I think the process to phase out Carragher should start now both for the sake of the team and for the player.

He's increasingly reliant on fouling to stop the opposition and has developed the trick of purposely tripping himself up of a striker's leg and making sure he brings the lad down with him. He's largely got away with it so far however I predict a red card and/or the concession of a penalty as a direct result of him being past it.

He is without doubt a proud Liverpool man and deserves to be regarded as a legend and it is this legendary status that is in danger of being tarnished should he start stumbling too much whilst on the march with Kenny's Army.

Liverpool players on the field need to be there on merit and not because of sentiment or what they have done in the past.
 
[quote author=Wilko link=topic=46743.msg1393987#msg1393987 date=1315077729]
I think the process to phase out Carragher should start now both for the sake of the team and for the player.

He's increasingly reliant on fouling to stop the opposition and has developed the trick of purposely tripping himself up of a striker's leg and making sure he brings the lad down with him. He's largely got away with it so far however I predict a red card and/or the concession of a penalty as a direct result of him being past it.

He is without doubt a proud Liverpool man and deserves to be regarded as a legend and it is this legendary status that is in danger of being tarnished should he start stumbling too much whilst on the march with Kenny's Army.

Liverpool players on the field need to be there on merit and not because of sentiment or what they have done in the past.
[/quote]

a bit ott, he is still very competent and effective, but with a new challenger he will no the days of him being a cert are over, which is good. I can see him evolving into a giggs like defender, who would be around for ages, but when called upon for one off games perform well, that won;t happen for a season or two though.
 
[quote author=Dylan link=topic=46743.msg1393956#msg1393956 date=1315073399]
No, right now it's Carra + and the + for me remains Agger. However, i expect we'll start next season with Coates - Agger.
[/quote]

Yup.
 
Carra and Agger until either of them loses form or gets injured. I really don't like the idea of messing about with our CB's unless we have to.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=46743.msg1393982#msg1393982 date=1315076210]
If he reads the game well, does pace really matter?


What all time great CB has had pace? (serious question)
[/quote]

Pace helps, but it isn't the be-all and end-all.

Some great CBs have been quick though. I hate to say it, but Lawrenson was one.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=46743.msg1393985#msg1393985 date=1315077198]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=46743.msg1393965#msg1393965 date=1315074372]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=46743.msg1393963#msg1393963 date=1315073738]
I honestly don't think it's a problem. If anything it's the other way round: Carra's on his last legs, Agger's still a worry, Skrtel's probably not quite good enough as a first choice, and Coates has yet to kick a ball outside the Uruguayan league.

I'd still like us to try for Cahill on a free. A lot will depend on whether Kelly, Wisdom or Wilson look up to the task too, I guess.
[/quote]

Wasn't Skrtel first choice in the 2008-2009 season when we got 86 points in the League, finished 2nd and should have won the damn thing - or am i just imaging that?
[/quote]

Well, seeing as that was the season he suffered a serious long-term knee injury - after which he's never been quite as good - then I'd say yes, you are imagining that.
[/quote]

Wasn't that the following season? Or was that when he broke his foot?

Sounds like he's as bad as Agger!
 
It's all down to Coates to step up and take Carraghers place in team away. Carragher will be doing what he can to keep it but as others have pointed out, he is approaching the point in his career where is not considered first choice anymore. Factor in Agger's injury record and it is almost impossible to select a first choice partnership here.
 
The point is, we now have enough options right across the back four to ensure we will have quality there whoever is selected.
 
[quote author=iseered link=topic=46743.msg1394022#msg1394022 date=1315087611]
I dont see how it is a conundrum. We rotate, just like we will do all over the pitch.
[/quote]

Not sure how good an idea it is to rotate the defence. It should be a settled unit as far as possible.
 
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