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Team for Lille

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[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39231.msg1067079#msg1067079 date=1268227528]
Reina

Magic - Zorba - Agger - Carra

Mascher - Aquilani

Gerrard - Yossi - Babel

Torres


And if anyone, including Gerrard, looks like they really couldn't give a shit, we should substitute them at HT.
[/quote]

Is right.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39231.msg1067143#msg1067143 date=1268234555]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39231.msg1067079#msg1067079 date=1268227528]
Reina

Magic - Zorba - Agger - Carra

Mascher - Aquilani

Gerrard - Yossi - Babel

Torres


And if anyone, including Gerrard, looks like they really couldn't give a shit, we should substitute them at HT.
[/quote]

Is right.
[/quote]

We only have 3 subs though. We could end up with only 5 players on the park after 90 minutes.
 
Liverpool midfielder Yossi Benayoun is doubtful for the Europa League match against Lille on Thursday after sustaining an ankle injury.

Benayoun suffered discomfort in the defeat by Wigan and his fitness will be monitored ahead of the match.

Centre-back Daniel Agger should be available having recovered from a sickness bug which reduced him to the role of unused substitute on Monday.

Liverpool team (from): Reina, Johnson, Degen, Agger, Carragher, Kyrgiakos, Insua, Gerrard, Lucas, Aquilani, Benayoun, Riera, Ngog, Kuyt, Torres, Cavalieri, Pacheco, Spearing, Darby, Babel, Kelly.
 
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=39231.msg1067154#msg1067154 date=1268237058]

Liverpool team (from): Reina, Johnson, Degen, Agger, Carragher, Kyrgiakos, Insua, Gerrard, Lucas, Aquilani, Benayoun, Riera, Ngog, Kuyt, Torres, Cavalieri, Pacheco, Spearing, Darby, Babel, Kelly.

[/quote]

As long as none of those four play, I'll be happy (ish).
 
-------------------------------reina----------------------------
Johnson-----------Zorba------------------Agger---------Insua
----------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------Mascherano-------------------------
----------------Gerrard-------------------Aquilani-------------
Babel----------------------------------------------------Riera
----------------------------Torres-----------------------------
 
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=39231.msg1067292#msg1067292 date=1268254297]
Is that your team Andy or THE team?
[/quote]Its my team mate. There's no way Rafa will drop Carra regardless of how many times per game he puts his laces on it and punts it back to the opposing keeper.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39231.msg1067300#msg1067300 date=1268254464]
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=39231.msg1067292#msg1067292 date=1268254297]
Is that your team Andy or THE team?
[/quote]Its my team mate. There's no way Rafa will drop Carra regardless of how many times per game he puts his laces on it and punts it back to the opposing keeper.
[/quote]

He could play Carra at LB, where it would be impossible for him to be any worse than that tubby useless cunt Insewer
 
cavalieri


degen krygiakos agger insua


maxi aquilani lucas riera


kuyt ngog



aquilani and agger will help our possesion, so even surrounded by cunts and shits and piss, it'd be enough to beat, who are we playing? lille. meanwhile the lesser cunts can continue training/learning how to play football/ practice passing etc before portsmouth.

oh. thats what someone who wasn't fucking retarded would do.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39231.msg1067306#msg1067306 date=1268254673]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39231.msg1067300#msg1067300 date=1268254464]
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=39231.msg1067292#msg1067292 date=1268254297]
Is that your team Andy or THE team?
[/quote]Its my team mate. There's no way Rafa will drop Carra regardless of how many times per game he puts his laces on it and punts it back to the opposing keeper.
[/quote]

He could play Carra at LB, where it would be impossible for him to be any worse than that tubby useless cunt Insewer
[/quote]Yeah, he certainly does less hooting from full back.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39231.msg1067315#msg1067315 date=1268255304]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39231.msg1067306#msg1067306 date=1268254673]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39231.msg1067300#msg1067300 date=1268254464]
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=39231.msg1067292#msg1067292 date=1268254297]
Is that your team Andy or THE team?
[/quote]Its my team mate. There's no way Rafa will drop Carra regardless of how many times per game he puts his laces on it and punts it back to the opposing keeper.
[/quote]

He could play Carra at LB, where it would be impossible for him to be any worse than that tubby useless cunt Insewer
[/quote]Yeah, he certainly does less hooting from full back.
[/quote]

Bothered. He's 100 x the defender fucking Insewer is, or will ever be.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39231.msg1067316#msg1067316 date=1268255352]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39231.msg1067315#msg1067315 date=1268255304]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39231.msg1067306#msg1067306 date=1268254673]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39231.msg1067300#msg1067300 date=1268254464]
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=39231.msg1067292#msg1067292 date=1268254297]
Is that your team Andy or THE team?
[/quote]Its my team mate. There's no way Rafa will drop Carra regardless of how many times per game he puts his laces on it and punts it back to the opposing keeper.
[/quote]

He could play Carra at LB, where it would be impossible for him to be any worse than that tubby useless cunt Insewer
[/quote]Yeah, he certainly does less hooting from full back.
[/quote]

Bothered. He's 100 x the defender fucking Insewer is, or will ever be.
[/quote]Errr I don't really know what you're talking about anymore, sooooooo okaaay.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39231.msg1067319#msg1067319 date=1268255491]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39231.msg1067316#msg1067316 date=1268255352]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39231.msg1067315#msg1067315 date=1268255304]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39231.msg1067306#msg1067306 date=1268254673]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39231.msg1067300#msg1067300 date=1268254464]
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=39231.msg1067292#msg1067292 date=1268254297]
Is that your team Andy or THE team?
[/quote]Its my team mate. There's no way Rafa will drop Carra regardless of how many times per game he puts his laces on it and punts it back to the opposing keeper.
[/quote]

He could play Carra at LB, where it would be impossible for him to be any worse than that tubby useless cunt Insewer
[/quote]Yeah, he certainly does less hooting from full back.
[/quote]

Bothered. He's 100 x the defender fucking Insewer is, or will ever be.
[/quote]Errr I don't really know what you're talking about anymore, sooooooo okaaay.
[/quote]

He's saying that Carra is a much better defender than Insua, which is pretty much undeniable, I'd have thought.

I suggested Carra at LB a few weeks ago: http://sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=39102.0
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39231.msg1067365#msg1067365 date=1268258577]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39231.msg1067319#msg1067319 date=1268255491]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39231.msg1067316#msg1067316 date=1268255352]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39231.msg1067315#msg1067315 date=1268255304]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39231.msg1067306#msg1067306 date=1268254673]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39231.msg1067300#msg1067300 date=1268254464]
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=39231.msg1067292#msg1067292 date=1268254297]
Is that your team Andy or THE team?
[/quote]Its my team mate. There's no way Rafa will drop Carra regardless of how many times per game he puts his laces on it and punts it back to the opposing keeper.
[/quote]

He could play Carra at LB, where it would be impossible for him to be any worse than that tubby useless cunt Insewer
[/quote]Yeah, he certainly does less hooting from full back.
[/quote]

Bothered. He's 100 x the defender fucking Insewer is, or will ever be.
[/quote]Errr I don't really know what you're talking about anymore, sooooooo okaaay.
[/quote]

He's saying that Carra is a much better defender than Insua, which is pretty much undeniable, I'd have thought.

I suggested Carra at LB a few weeks ago: http://sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=39102.0
[/quote]Yeah. I just don't understand what that has to with what I was talking about. Carragher is currently one of the biggest problems in our team. He constantly punts the ball back to the opposition even when under no pressure. We squander posession constantly, every player, front to back. But non more so than Carragher currently, and for that and that alone I would drop him.
I'd never question him as a defender, he's a legend, but right here right now what we need is possession and composure. He has neither. I'd sacrifice a bit of defensive stability for some ball retention.
 
I don't agree with that.

He wouldn't have to hoof it if there was any kind of midfield ahead of him showing some decent movement.

The number of times everyone just stood around like fucking lemons against Wigan was an absolute disgrace. Taking Carragher out of the team isn't going to solve that.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39231.msg1067377#msg1067377 date=1268259836]
I don't agree with that.

He wouldn't have to hoof it if there was any kind of midfield ahead of him showing some decent movement.

The number of times everyone just stood around like fucking lemons against Wigan was an absolute disgrace. Taking Carragher out of the team isn't going to solve that.
[/quote]Well ill just have to disagree Ken. We play it around the midfield and then we pass it back to Carragher who punts it to the oppo about 15 times a game. He conceedes possession because he doesn't know what else to do.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39231.msg1067378#msg1067378 date=1268260795]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39231.msg1067377#msg1067377 date=1268259836]
I don't agree with that.

He wouldn't have to hoof it if there was any kind of midfield ahead of him showing some decent movement.

The number of times everyone just stood around like fucking lemons against Wigan was an absolute disgrace. Taking Carragher out of the team isn't going to solve that.
[/quote]Well ill just have to disagree Ken. We play it around the midfield and then we pass it back to Carragher who punts it to the oppo about 15 times a game. He conceedes possession because he doesn't know what else to do.
[/quote]

I know you were using hyperbole, but show me somewhere where Carraghers pass completion rate, when he is playing at CB, is poor? Show me all these hoofs in the wigan game. I know from experience the stats on these sites aren't flawless, but the guardian tracking shows 1 pass incomplete from 47 attempts. Without a single hoof.

The problem is DEFINITELY distribution from the back, but it isn't hoofing that is really the issue, though Insua was guilty of that several times, as is Carragher when he plays at RB. Looking at the wigan game, there are about 30 passes sideways passes deep in our half, some of this is just par for the course, but the damning thing is that a significant number of these aren't to Kyrgiakos, but instead to Lucas and Gerrard. It's no wonder we can get pegged in, and that our attack gets isolated, when we are consistently making SIDEWAYS passes from our CB to our CM.

Part of this in the wigan game was that Lucas especially was often recovering the ball at LB because he was given the task of babysitting Insua, but he was quite clearly otherwise told to remain close to the CBs, but neither he nor Gerrard have the skills to perform the role. You'd think after all these months of failure, Rafa would have figured out we don't have the pieces to fit that puzzle anymore, and it's time to try something new. If you are at times effectively playing a back FIVE, and you have to squeeze a pass with players without that passing range, just to gain the opposition half, because you are outnumbered there, it's not going to happen.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39231.msg1067378#msg1067378 date=1268260795]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39231.msg1067377#msg1067377 date=1268259836]
I don't agree with that.

He wouldn't have to hoof it if there was any kind of midfield ahead of him showing some decent movement.

The number of times everyone just stood around like fucking lemons against Wigan was an absolute disgrace. Taking Carragher out of the team isn't going to solve that.
[/quote]Well ill just have to disagree Ken. We play it around the midfield and then we pass it back to Carragher who punts it to the oppo about 15 times a game. He conceedes possession because he doesn't know what else to do.
[/quote]

Shouldn't the midfield try take the ball forward and use the wingers and the striker as an outlet to receive a pass? Improved movement throughout the team would result in Carragher being used less and less as the outlet and perhaps less hoofing as a result.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39231.msg1067378#msg1067378 date=1268260795]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39231.msg1067377#msg1067377 date=1268259836]
I don't agree with that.

He wouldn't have to hoof it if there was any kind of midfield ahead of him showing some decent movement.

The number of times everyone just stood around like fucking lemons against Wigan was an absolute disgrace. Taking Carragher out of the team isn't going to solve that.
[/quote]Well ill just have to disagree Ken. We play it around the midfield and then we pass it back to Carragher who punts it to the oppo about 15 times a game. He conceedes possession because he doesn't know what else to do.
[/quote]

carrawigan.jpg
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39231.msg1067365#msg1067365 date=1268258577]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39231.msg1067319#msg1067319 date=1268255491]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39231.msg1067316#msg1067316 date=1268255352]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39231.msg1067315#msg1067315 date=1268255304]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39231.msg1067306#msg1067306 date=1268254673]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39231.msg1067300#msg1067300 date=1268254464]
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=39231.msg1067292#msg1067292 date=1268254297]
Is that your team Andy or THE team?
[/quote]Its my team mate. There's no way Rafa will drop Carra regardless of how many times per game he puts his laces on it and punts it back to the opposing keeper.
[/quote]

He could play Carra at LB, where it would be impossible for him to be any worse than that tubby useless cunt Insewer
[/quote]Yeah, he certainly does less hooting from full back.
[/quote]

Bothered. He's 100 x the defender fucking Insewer is, or will ever be.
[/quote]Errr I don't really know what you're talking about anymore, sooooooo okaaay.
[/quote]

He's saying that Carra is a much better defender than Insua, which is pretty much undeniable, I'd have thought.

I suggested Carra at LB a few weeks ago: http://sixcrazyminutes.com/forums/index.php?topic=39102.0
[/quote]

Carra at left back is wank and pointless, and he's not quite the player he was when he last played there, whenever the fuck that was in the early 00's.

I understand the frustration at Insua, but to be fair to the kid he hasn't had anyone infront of him all season, so..

Carra on the left is fucking shit. Basic stuff lads. He might be able to defend but I'd reckon that most half decent right wingers would run rings around him, and if you put him on the left, we have we got in the middle? Is Agger even fit?
 
[quote author=refugee link=topic=39231.msg1067404#msg1067404 date=1268263874]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39231.msg1067378#msg1067378 date=1268260795]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39231.msg1067377#msg1067377 date=1268259836]
I don't agree with that.

He wouldn't have to hoof it if there was any kind of midfield ahead of him showing some decent movement.

The number of times everyone just stood around like fucking lemons against Wigan was an absolute disgrace. Taking Carragher out of the team isn't going to solve that.
[/quote]Well ill just have to disagree Ken. We play it around the midfield and then we pass it back to Carragher who punts it to the oppo about 15 times a game. He conceedes possession because he doesn't know what else to do.
[/quote]

carrawigan.jpg

[/quote]Im not talking about 1 game in isolation. If I'm the only person who thinks Carra hoofs it back to the oppo, then fine I can live with that. I would just like to see what our team plays like (in particular relating to the build up between back 4 and cm's) if it were a failure then fine I'd hold my hands up. The problem now is that we have loads of players who don't want to take responsibility, whereas carra always takes responsibility but doesn't have the ability. I'd like to see the team build play and move forward, but I can't see that happening with Carra's 'hoof it and push up' tactics being the main one employed by about half of our team.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39231.msg1067414#msg1067414 date=1268266903]
[quote author=refugee link=topic=39231.msg1067404#msg1067404 date=1268263874]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39231.msg1067378#msg1067378 date=1268260795]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39231.msg1067377#msg1067377 date=1268259836]
I don't agree with that.

He wouldn't have to hoof it if there was any kind of midfield ahead of him showing some decent movement.

The number of times everyone just stood around like fucking lemons against Wigan was an absolute disgrace. Taking Carragher out of the team isn't going to solve that.
[/quote]Well ill just have to disagree Ken. We play it around the midfield and then we pass it back to Carragher who punts it to the oppo about 15 times a game. He conceedes possession because he doesn't know what else to do.
[/quote]

carrawigan.jpg

[/quote]Im not talking about 1 game in isolation. If I'm the only person who thinks Carra hoofs it back to the oppo, then fine I can live with that. I would just like to see what our team plays like (in particular relating to the build up between back 4 and cm's) if it were a failure then fine I'd hold my hands up. The problem now is that we have loads of players who don't want to take responsibility, whereas carra always takes responsibility but doesn't have the ability. I'd like to see the team build play and move forward, but I can't see that happening with Carra's 'hoof it and push up' tactics being the main one employed by about half of our team.
[/quote]

That's a big exaggeration Oncy, that's made more apparent when we're under more pressure. Yeah he can resort to it, but only when there's nothing else on, people generalise when we're playing shit.

His hoofing isn't the reason we're playing shit, his hoofing is a consequence of us playing shit.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39231.msg1067415#msg1067415 date=1268267120]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39231.msg1067414#msg1067414 date=1268266903]
[quote author=refugee link=topic=39231.msg1067404#msg1067404 date=1268263874]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39231.msg1067378#msg1067378 date=1268260795]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39231.msg1067377#msg1067377 date=1268259836]
I don't agree with that.

He wouldn't have to hoof it if there was any kind of midfield ahead of him showing some decent movement.

The number of times everyone just stood around like fucking lemons against Wigan was an absolute disgrace. Taking Carragher out of the team isn't going to solve that.
[/quote]Well ill just have to disagree Ken. We play it around the midfield and then we pass it back to Carragher who punts it to the oppo about 15 times a game. He conceedes possession because he doesn't know what else to do.
[/quote]

carrawigan.jpg

[/quote]Im not talking about 1 game in isolation. If I'm the only person who thinks Carra hoofs it back to the oppo, then fine I can live with that. I would just like to see what our team plays like (in particular relating to the build up between back 4 and cm's) if it were a failure then fine I'd hold my hands up. The problem now is that we have loads of players who don't want to take responsibility, whereas carra always takes responsibility but doesn't have the ability. I'd like to see the team build play and move forward, but I can't see that happening with Carra's 'hoof it and push up' tactics being the main one employed by about half of our team.
[/quote]

That's a big exaggeration Oncy, that's made more apparent when we're under more pressure. Yeah he can resort to it, but only when there's nothing else on, people generalise when we're playing shit.

His hoofing isn't the reason we're playing shit, his hoofing is a consequence of us playing shit.
[/quote]I disagree. From the start of this season with only one ore two exceptions he has played nowhere near his usual standard. He has made mistakes and cost us goals. And HIS mechanism to prevent this is to revert to a hit it and hope approach.
Anyway he won't get dropped, I know it, you know it. I'm not even THAT arsed, I just would like to see for this or a game what we would look like without carra in the team.
But obviously he's (or his way of playing) just a fraction of the problem in our team at present. I think maybe I just see it as a higher fraction than anyone else.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=39231.msg1067396#msg1067396 date=1268262959]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39231.msg1067378#msg1067378 date=1268260795]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39231.msg1067377#msg1067377 date=1268259836]
I don't agree with that.

He wouldn't have to hoof it if there was any kind of midfield ahead of him showing some decent movement.

The number of times everyone just stood around like fucking lemons against Wigan was an absolute disgrace. Taking Carragher out of the team isn't going to solve that.
[/quote]Well ill just have to disagree Ken. We play it around the midfield and then we pass it back to Carragher who punts it to the oppo about 15 times a game. He conceedes possession because he doesn't know what else to do.
[/quote]

I know you were using hyperbole, but show me somewhere where Carraghers pass completion rate, when he is playing at CB, is poor? Show me all these hoofs in the wigan game. I know from experience the stats on these sites aren't flawless, but the guardian tracking shows 1 pass incomplete from 47 attempts. Without a single hoof.

The problem is DEFINITELY distribution from the back, but it isn't hoofing that is really the issue, though Insua was guilty of that several times, as is Carragher when he plays at RB. Looking at the wigan game, there are about 30 passes sideways passes deep in our half, some of this is just par for the course, but the damning thing is that a significant number of these aren't to Kyrgiakos, but instead to Lucas and Gerrard. It's no wonder we can get pegged in, and that our attack gets isolated, when we are consistently making SIDEWAYS passes from our CB to our CM.

Part of this in the wigan game was that Lucas especially was often recovering the ball at LB because he was given the task of babysitting Insua, but he was quite clearly otherwise told to remain close to the CBs, but neither he nor Gerrard have the skills to perform the role. You'd think after all these months of failure, Rafa would have figured out we don't have the pieces to fit that puzzle anymore, and it's time to try something new. If you are at times effectively playing a back FIVE, and you have to squeeze a pass with players without that passing range, just to gain the opposition half, because you are outnumbered there, it's not going to happen.






[/quote]

Agree with most of that.

One thing to note though, that no one's picked up on: With Kyrgiakos & Carra at the back, as we were against Wigan, we defend very deep because the pair of them are shit-scarred of getting burned in behind for pace. With that happening, Lucas and Gerrard (Lucas for the most part) had to drop deep to pick it up. The fucking whopping problem with that is that the gap between midfield and your forwards increases. Against Wigan it was massive. To boot, we had Kuyt playing in the hole which he didn't do a very good job of. He was unable ti find space, and generally slowed things up when it came to him. Picking out Torres from that deep midfield position was nigh on impossible. As a further caveat, wigan's 5 man midfield, of which Diame was superb, just crowded the big gap between the midfield and forwards. They snuffed us out easily.

When we play with any combination not involving Kyrgiakos and Carra we move forward 5-10 yards. Especially with Skrtel in the side, as he's so quick at covering any ball over the top. Such players enable us to play closer as a side. At any given time the structure of the team should be kept within 30-40 yards from top top bottom. the other night it was about 50 yards. Problem. Players too far apart, quick movement of the ball is impossible, and neat, intricate, one-touch passing becomes impossible.

Anyway, to cut a long story short - a combo of the Greek and Carra in the centre fucks us.
 
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=39231.msg1067084#msg1067084 date=1268227871]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39231.msg1067079#msg1067079 date=1268227528]
Reina

Magic - Zorba - Agger - Carra

Mascher - Aquilani

Gerrard - Yossi - Babel

Torres


And if anyone, including Gerrard, looks like they really couldn't give a shit, we should substitute them at HT.
[/quote]

This formation has fucking zero chance of happening.
[/quote]
 
Gonna be interesting to see how young Eden Hazard goes tonight for Lille. He's supposedly the best Belgian younsgter since well ever, so keep an eye out.

Here he is showing some particular testicular fortitude. Check out the score at the time.

Eden Hazard Panenka vs Toulouse
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=39231.msg1067457#msg1067457 date=1268287025]
isn't that 16 year old Lokalulu (or whatever his name is) their #1 shining star?
[/quote]

No idea mate.
 
Remember Micky Hazard? Couldn't last 90 minutes due to his penchant for fast food. And this was in the 80's. I used to get confused between him and the fella out of 'Just Good Friends'.
 
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